Hinge part problem

[mEan]

Hello,

I am trying to make a LEGO chessboard which closes in half forming a box and I am not sure which part to use as a hinge.

Ideal for my build would be a part similar to a hinge plate 1x4, but with the hinge turning in different angle. Something like two 1x2 bricks connected with a hinge at the bottom forming a 1x4 brick when opened . But as far as I know, there is no part like that. Only solution that comes to my mind is to somehow use bricks with side studs to attach plate hinges, but I think it would not be pretty.

How would you solve this problem? I guess there must be a solution for making a simple box.

Thank you.

[ukbajadave]

Part 3831 and 3830 any good?

11 minutes ago, mEan said:

...Something like two 1x2 bricks connected with a hinge at the bottom forming a 1x4 brick when opened ...

 

[mEan]

20 minutes ago, ukbajadave said:

Part 3831 and 3830 any good?

 

This is the same as hinge plate, olny it's a brick. I meant something like this but with hinge a the he bottom, so when closed the studs aims to opposite direction.

But I guess I will just have to use the one you posted and connect it with side studs.

[ukbajadave]

How big does the chess board need to be? I'm assuming SNOT techniques are no use as you want studs on the board to affix pieces? I'd be looking to use 3 technic beams with the pins parallel to the board in a U shape. No hinge plate I can think of allows 180° 

[mEan]

I'm building it 32x32 (from 4 16x16 plates) and all studs should face up when the board is opened. This has two reasons: I need studs on top so I can attach tiles as chess squares and I want to avoid SNOT technique used in LEGO Pop-Up book, because it has visible studs and holes on sides. So I was thinking using SNOT only to attach the hinge plate to this part, which will be placed in the side of the box, hope it's understandable. I thought the hinge you posted allows 180° - from 2x2 brick (0°) transforms to 1x4 brick (180°), am I wrong? As you mentioned the Technics beams, I realized I could use small standard beam with 2 holes and sorround it with two 1x1 Technics brick with hole, making a hinge... thanks for that idea, I will think about it.

[ukbajadave]

A potential problem with using the hinge brick and SNOT may be that when the board is open (brick in 2x2 form) the hinge mould extends past the brick edge meaning the chess board will not sit level.

This has piqued my interest so I may have a play with stud.io and see what I can come up with, make sure to keep this thread updated with your solution 

9 minutes ago, mEan said:

I thought the hinge you posted allows 180° - from 2x2 brick (0°) transforms to 1x4 brick (180°), am I wrong?

 

59 minutes ago, ukbajadave said:

No hinge plate I can think of allows 180° 

Apologies for not being clearer, the brick allows 180°, I can think of no plate which does. My first thought was simply a plate hinge with two more plates on top to replace a brick.

[mEan]

7 minutes ago, ukbajadave said:

A potential problem with using the hinge brick and SNOT may be that when the board is open (brick in 2x2 form) the hinge mould extends past the brick edge meaning the chess board will not sit level.

Yes, exactly! I am aware of this problem and I was thinking I could live with this small design flaw if there is no other solution, but I think the beam methid could solve this!

11 minutes ago, ukbajadave said:

Apologies for not being clearer, the brick allows 180°, I can think of no plate which does. My first thought was simply a plate hinge with two more plates on top to replace a brick.

I'm not sure I understand, what is the difference between the hinge brick 1x4 you posted and a standard hinge plate 1x4? I thought these parts are identical, except the plate one has 3x smaller height, but they should open in the same angle.

Yeah, hinge plate with two more plates is the same as a brick in height, but I need to rotate it and attach the hinge to the side of the brick, so I was thinking to use 5 hinge plates, that means the height of the plates equals to width of 1x2 brick. But I will be looking more into the beam solution now.

Good to hear you are interested in this problem, I will definitely update this thread with a solution.

[1963maniac]

Check thru the hinges at Bricklink: https://www.bricklink.com/catalogList.asp?pg=3&catString=22&catType=P

Also, I thought about using parts with clips connecting with parts with bars. For instance 60470+ 48336 OR 60478+ 92280. See  plates/modified:  https://www.bricklink.com/catalogList.asp?catType=P&catString=27

What about using  18677 + 11458 with a technic pin connecting them.

[MAB]

I wouldn't hinge it. I'd use a lift off lid, held in place by studs, like floors in a modular building, with tiles to lower the clutch to make it lift off easier.

Edited January 10, 2021 by MAB

[mEan]

32 minutes ago, 1963maniac said:

Check thru the hinges at Bricklink: https://www.bricklink.com/catalogList.asp?pg=3&catString=22&catType=P

Also, I thought about using parts with clips connecting with parts with bars. For instance 60470+ 48336 OR 60478+ 92280. See  plates/modified:  https://www.bricklink.com/catalogList.asp?catType=P&catString=27

What about using  18677 + 11458 with a technic pin connecting them.

Thanks for your suggestions. I prefer a solution with permanent hinge, I'm afraid the clips would like to disconnect. And I cannot use the Technics parts because the studs would be interfering with each other when opened, I need the axis of the joint to be between studs of both parts.

 

4 minutes ago, MAB said:

I wouldn't hinge it. I'd use a lift off lid, held in place by studs, like floors in a modular building, with tiles to lower the clutch to make it lift off easier.

Interesting idea, but the half with studs would be higher that the other when placed on a table and I think it's good to have both halves connected when playing chess.

[deraven]

3 minutes ago, MAB said:

I wouldn't hinge it. I'd use a lift off lid, held in place by studs, like floors in a modular building, with tiles to lower the clutch to make it lift off easier.

That would double the size footprint which I think mEan was trying to avoid (for either aesthetic or practical purposes).

I would look at how Lego did it with the 40174 chess set - that just has 2 halves that stack and snap together when in use.  If you want it hinged, think about a 3-part hinge design (with part of it floating) mounted a brick up in the interior so none of it protrudes when open.  A little bit like how the interior hinges in the pop-up book set works.

[mEan]

24 minutes ago, MAB said:

I wouldn't hinge it. I'd use a lift off lid, held in place by studs, like floors in a modular building, with tiles to lower the clutch to make it lift off easier.

Oh, you meant a lid on the whole board... yeah my main idea is to have a 16x32 box instead of a whole board.

8 minutes ago, deraven said:

I would look at how Lego did it with the 40174 chess set - that just has 2 halves that stack and snap together when in use.  If you want it hinged, think about a 3-part hinge design (with part of it floating) mounted a brick up in the interior so none of it protrudes when open.  A little bit like how the interior hinges in the pop-up book set works.

Well, I was trying to avoid the pop-up book design because of the studs and holes on top and bottom, but this is interesting idea. If I will manage to implement hinge plates to my studs-up design, I could try to build the 3-part hinge and solve the problem with protruding joint. Thanks

[MAB]

13 hours ago, mEan said:

Oh, you meant a lid on the whole board... yeah my main idea is to have a 16x32 box instead of a whole board.

 

Why not have the board to be the lid then? You could even have a 16x16 box with four "lids" which lift off to make the board.

[mEan]

Do you mean a 16x16 box with four 16x16 lids stacked up on each other and then attaching these lids on top of the box to create a 32x32 chessboard?

[mEan]

22 hours ago, ukbajadave said:

How big does the chess board need to be? I'm assuming SNOT techniques are no use as you want studs on the board to affix pieces? I'd be looking to use 3 technic beams with the pins parallel to the board in a U shape. No hinge plate I can think of allows 180° 

Just an update on the Techics beams method. I was thinking to attach the beam like this, but then I realized I woudln't be able to open the box, becase the bricks dont have the same round shape as the beam. Or you had different idea on your mind?

[ukbajadave]

Heres what I achieved after work today  Please excuse the crudity of this model, I didn't have time to build it to scale or to paint it...

2L technic beam at bottom pivot point. 

Very little protrusion underneath.

And very tidy once folded.

So I extended it to two hinges.

This is where it went wrong. Once built up to the level of the beams the hinge became very stiff. 

Next attempt, a longer beam with the pivot moved inside the box.

Same problem with the edge of the boxes catching 

It seems to me that the pivot wants to be as close to the bottom as possible but this means any hinge stands proud. Moving the hinge inside always leads to one edge catching when rotated.

Perhaps what is needed is a floating axle which could sit towards the centre and allow the halves to be pulled apart slightly before folding. I'm thinking even a rod inside a beam hole would allow enough movement?

[ukbajadave]

Here is a floating pin idea.

Once the rods are in place they can be locked in with bricks. There is enough slack to hinge the sides and minimal protrusion. 

As long as this is the bottom row you can make the boxes taller as you need.

I originally tried the Pin with bar shown in this photo but as the bar is always central in one of the beam holes there was not enough movement. Also once the chess board is opened a plate across the gap would add some security. 

Thanks for giving me a fun exercise to occupy my mind 

[MAB]

5 hours ago, mEan said:

Do you mean a 16x16 box with four 16x16 lids stacked up on each other and then attaching these lids on top of the box to create a 32x32 chessboard?

Yes, exactly that. 

[1963maniac]

If you are going to use technic parts, use pins without friction. That pin with bar isn't going to do it for you.

[ukbajadave]

2 minutes ago, 1963maniac said:

If you are going to use technic parts, use pins without friction. That pin with bar isn't going to do it for you.

But pins (with or without friction) won't allow you to pull the two box sections apart so that they can rotate?

[mEan]

2 hours ago, ukbajadave said:

Heres what I achieved after work today  Please excuse the crudity of this model, I didn't have time to build it to scale or to paint it...

Wow, that's a lot of work and very interesting post, thank you for that!

Now I understand what you and 1963maniac meant when recommended to use Technics beams. When I tried to attach the beam to two bricks with holes and failed due to colliding edges, I thought about loosing it a little somehow, but I didnt know there are Technics bars with smaller diameter.

If I understand the solution correctly, one beam is missing a base plate, which moves the hinge axis to one side and helps to avoid the edge collision. That's really clever idea!

I am still working on a clean method to SNOT attach hinge plates to sides of the board, I really like the idea of pop-up book like 2 hinge design, which is the only one that completely solves protrusion problems and looks cleanest overall. But if I fail, I will probably use your method.

1 hour ago, MAB said:

Yes, exactly that. 

It's interesting idea to have a small 16x16 box, I'm just afraid the height of the box would have to be quite big to fit all the pieces inside. The folding mechanism is a must for me, I'm basically trying to make copy of a regular chess set I have at home.

[MAB]

11 hours ago, mEan said:

 

It's interesting idea to have a small 16x16 box, I'm just afraid the height of the box would have to be quite big to fit all the pieces inside. The folding mechanism is a must for me, I'm basically trying to make copy of a regular chess set I have at home.

You could of course do a 16x32 box instead with two 'lids' and double the volume of the box for the same height. However if you want to replicate an existing thing, then it won't work.

[mEan]

I am struggling with the Pop-Up book-like design, because unlike the book, I want to have plates instead of brick wall on sides, so I need to figure out how to attach hinges to these plates. But every SNOT technique I can think of deals with a problem with the hinge plate being placed on top of side of a brick, creating a 1 stud width (8 mm) vercital gap, which I cannot compensate by brick height:

Is there a SNOT technique which alows placing the plate aligned to the bottom of a brick? Like this: