How about using rechargeable powerbank hubs instead of hubs with batteries?

[Idris]

Hello to all,

It's been a long time since I was in the forum, therefore I do not know ( I did a research but couldn't find one) if a similar topic was opened before.

Since the powerbanks have started to be able to give 9V outputs 2 amperes, Even 12V 1,5 amperes with a rated capacity of 12.000 mAh and a total capacity of 20.000 mAh or more, I started to think about using powerbanks instead of 1,5V*6 AA or AAA type batteries in powered and/or lit-up sets.

These batteries clearly create a battery pollution after losing their full power or all of their power, thus needed to be replaced. This means money, toxic waste, corrosion of the hubs, unplayable/unusable sets.

Corroded batteries create health problems, performance problems, usage problems. 

(i.e. Haunted House Set with "Powered Up". If the AAA batteries lose power, then the lift in the set immediately start to have problems. First of all, I believe the set's lift system using "Powered Up", has clear faults. Because the motor used to operate the lift is timed and its speed is also cleverly calculated. The lift's wheel system has problems. Many times, it is stuck, doesn't reset properly or because of the wheels slowing down the lift when falling do not act properly when the lift is going up, I tried taking off the side walls of lift, touching the wheels. This made the lift work properly but alas, when it did the panic fall, the wheels did not slow the lift down, so it had a "free-fall". Furthermore, if the batteries lose power, then the lift can not operate properly.)  

From what I see, at least in Turkey, LEGO is working with VARTA. VARTA has very durable and powerful powerbanks reaching up to 18.200 - 20.000 mAh. Yes, it is large but the technology is improving more and more. The price of the powerbanks? Well, even the VARTA ones are less expensive than the battery hubs sold by LEGO. The outputs can be various (USB-C, USB, micro-USB etc.) and they can simply be adapted to LEGO motors with some modifications. And after a 5-6 hour recharge after full depletion, voila! No waste, no power loss, no unnecessary battery buying/storage and thousands of reacharges only with a smart USB adapter.

So? Why not? The powerbanks do not lose their full power at all until they are totally depleted.

Because I am not an expert in battery hubs vs. powerbanks in means of generating power to the motors, kindly please warn me if I am talking nonsense. 

Best of health and 

Regards,

Idris   

[amorti]

It seems likely there will be a rechargeable solution for the c+ hub, all in good time. Or just buy a Buwizz, which is equipped with LiPo batteries anyway.

[kbalage]

There's a rechargeable battery replacement solution for the AAA hub that you can also power externally:

https://keybrick.one/

[1gor]

1 minute ago, kbalage said:

There's a rechargeable battery replacement solution for the AAA hub that you can also power externally:

https://keybrick.one/

Balasz is there something that can use as an adapter to this with PF motors?

(Images are small on my mobile phone, so I can not see it clearly...)

Thanks

[Idris]

1 hour ago, amorti said:

It seems likely there will be a rechargeable solution for the c+ hub, all in good time. Or just buy a Buwizz, which is equipped with LiPo batteries anyway.

 

1 hour ago, kbalage said:

There's a rechargeable battery replacement solution for the AAA hub that you can also power externally:

https://keybrick.one/

Dear amorti and kbalage, many thanks for your almost immediate replies. I forgot to mention that I know of BuWizz and KeyBrick and some other companies created by LEGO enthusiasts and young engineers. 

What I wanted to emphasize here was LEGO, itself, creating its own system, with which the set is still guaranteed and completely puts an end to the battery pollution created by a very eco-friendly and huge company.

The products of BuWizz, when compared to the hubs of LEGO are considerably expensive, when you put the same options near each other. Also, the Bluetooth app interface looks very primitive.

Of course, clever entrepreneurs like the ones founded BuWizz should be encouraged to push LEGO into new horizons, but I think that LEGO can co-work with large battery companies while also working with companies like BuWizz for synergy and speed together with their own people. For example, the LiPo battery used by BuWizz has a capacity of only about 2500mAh with 8wh. Imagining 20.000 mAh with 74wh using 12V, even 18V would be (in my humble opinion) a game changer for creating faster, more powerful, more lighted-up and most of all enhanced even one-two levels higher, more durable/sturdy, larger, stronger and more complex systems, guaranteed by LEGO.

Many Thanks.  

[kbalage]

2 hours ago, I_Igor said:

Balasz is there something that can use as an adapter to this with PF motors?

Not directly, this unit is designed as a replacement for the battery holder and the bottom cover of the AAA PU hub. From a functionality perspective it gives you similar results (apart from the higher voltage) like the rechargeable PF battery box.

1 hour ago, Idris said:

What I wanted to emphasize here was LEGO, itself, creating its own system, with which the set is still guaranteed and completely puts an end to the battery pollution created by a very eco-friendly and huge company.

A proprietary rechargeable battery that can be used only for a specific system is not very eco-friendly compared to the generic rechargeable AA/AAA batteries that are versatile and can be recycled properly.

1 hour ago, Idris said:

The products of BuWizz, when compared to the hubs of LEGO are considerably expensive, when you put the same options near each other. Also, the Bluetooth app interface looks very primitive. 

Well I would not call the app primitive, it is definitely more flexible than anything that was offered by LEGO for Power Functions. Most people think the Powered Up app is actually too complicated and only targeted towards people who are familiar with coding, I wish it had a much simpler interface/option like the BuWizz app for a quick and easy to use control setup.

1 hour ago, Idris said:

Imagining 20.000 mAh with 74wh using 12V, even 18V would be (in my humble opinion) a game changer for creating faster, more powerful, more lighted-up and most of all enhanced even one-two levels higher, more durable/sturdy, larger, stronger and more complex systems, guaranteed by LEGO.

LEGO will never release anything beyond 9V. Even with that voltage you can easily create a setup that brakes the plastic, and with higher voltage there's even a bigger risk of that. LEGO motors are (more or less) safe to use up to 12V, but that is already well beyond the "toy for kids" concept so I think it's better if only 3rd party companies are offering it for people who know and understand the risk. 

[amorti]

If you don't like the buwizz app, get brickcontroller2 and a gamepad. Then you get that haptic feedback that Lego C+ has been missing.

[1gor]

Thanks @kbalage 

[dr_spock]

Why not use AC to DC adapters for static displays and don't have to deal with recharging batteries? 

When outside away from an AC wall outlet, one can use a simple inverter with 12V batteries.  Lead acid battery is better at keeping the picnic table cloth from flying away in strong winds too. 

[howitzer]

51515 hub of course includes a LiPo battery and can both be recharged while attached or switched to spare quickly. Functionally it can also do anything the C+ hub can and more.

[Milan]

Hi @Idris

We cannot keep two of the very same topics. I will let this one stays here, while the other one you have opened will be hidden.

[Idris]

15 minutes ago, Milan said:

Hi @Idris

We cannot keep two of the very same topics. I will let this one stays here, while the other one you have opened will be hidden.

Thanks and sorry Milan, I forgot to close the other topic.

[Idris]

1 hour ago, kbalage said:

A proprietary rechargeable battery that can be used only for a specific system is not very eco-friendly compared to the generic rechargeable AA/AAA batteries that are versatile and can be recycled properly.

Well I would not call the app primitive, it is definitely more flexible than anything that was offered by LEGO for Power Functions. Most people think the Powered Up app is actually too complicated and only targeted towards people who are familiar with coding, I wish it had a much simpler interface/option like the BuWizz app for a quick and easy to use control setup.

LEGO will never release anything beyond 9V. Even with that voltage you can easily create a setup that brakes the plastic, and with higher voltage there's even a bigger risk of that. LEGO motors are (more or less) safe to use up to 12V, but that is already well beyond the "toy for kids" concept so I think it's better if only 3rd party companies are offering it for people who know and understand the risk. 

@kbalage

Many thanks for your detailed reply.

In all of your 3 replies, I understand that you are talking about a special design and creating a new interface in the bluetooth app. My thought was inclined towards already created sets such as the Haunted House, which includes sound effects, timed motor programming and even animations. For creating something out of scratch, I agree with you.

In means of batteries, changing them, seeing them lose power, opening and closing the battery box over and over etc. are all problematic. Using one single hub with a rechargeable LiPo battery inside as @howitzer mentioned in 51515 and maybe use another hub like the 51515 is much more effective in my opinion. Therefore I am not talking about individual rechargeable batteries used only for a specific system.

In means of voltage, I do not quite agree with you. For example the 51515 uses 10V, but this is not the only case. I do not think that LEGO is only inclined towards creating "toys for kids", rather, in the new sets, as everyone does, I see more and more "18+" sets. As you very well know, there are ads for LEGO, promoting "LEGO for adults". Moreover, using 12V or 18V (yes,18V, 20.000 mAh and 74wh maybe seems extreme but why not)  depends according to a set's creation. Not a single set, but several sets which would require more power and torque, exclusively for adults to use/control indoors and maybe outdoors (waterproof even?) and tested to be safe, at least for adults.

In means of the durability of the plastic, maybe thermoplastics like polycarbonate can be used for special gears/gear systems. As you have said above, even 9V create risks for "kids" but as I said, my inclination is towards "18+" sets with power functions and especially durable parts. Thank you :)     

1 hour ago, amorti said:

If you don't like the buwizz app, get brickcontroller2 and a gamepad. Then you get that haptic feedback that Lego C+ has been missing.

@amorti 

Why not. Thank you. :)

1 hour ago, howitzer said:

51515 hub of course includes a LiPo battery and can both be recharged while attached or switched to spare quickly. Functionally it can also do anything the C+ hub can and more.

@howitzer Exactly. But only 2050 mAh? I am sure LEGO can do better as it is retiring it's old hubs, as some kind of a proof. Thank you. :)   

[amorti]

Brickcontroller2 also works with C+ hubs, albeit that doesn't solve the original question, maybe it's good to know.

[kbalage]

8 hours ago, Idris said:

in means of voltage, I do not quite agree with you. For example the 51515 uses 10V, but this is not the only case. I do not think that LEGO is only inclined towards creating "toys for kids", rather, in the new sets, as everyone does, I see more and more "18+" sets. As you very well know, there are ads for LEGO, promoting "LEGO for adults". Moreover, using 12V or 18V (yes,18V, 20.000 mAh and 74wh maybe seems extreme but why not)  depends according to a set's creation. Not a single set, but several sets which would require more power and torque, exclusively for adults to use/control indoors and maybe outdoors (waterproof even?) and tested to be safe, at least for adults.

51515 uses a 7.3V battery pack, you can check the detailed documentation here. I don't want to disappoint you but the 18+ product line is more of a marketing gimmick then a real will to develop specific products for adults. There are some like the Art series, but I highly doubt TLG would invest serious resources to develop a high power system with specific more durable parts and electronics. Just take a look at the development of Powered Up, they are way back behind schedule with a system that has a much wider target audience. Realistically you can expect a rechargeable battery pack coming for Powered Up, but I'm almost sure that'll have a limited voltage around 7.2V.