dhc6twinotter

[RUMORS] 6x6 Mercedes Zetros

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I wouldn't compare this to 42070 just because they are both 6x6. That was a tow truck whereas this is a trial truck. If they gear it down correctly it might perform quite well. The smaller wheels will help gear it down also.

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Posted (edited)

@allanp Well I would, because a veicle called "All terrain tow truck" is basically a trial truck with a different purpose.

But the Zetros seems to have some real suspension, in the back at least. The front travel looks so small that there might be no suspension there :sceptic:

And hopefully you are right and the drivetrain isn't as weak as the 42070.

Edited by Gray Gear

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43 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

Well I would, because a veicle called "All terrain tow truck" is basically a trial truck with a different purpose.

42070 wasn't performing that bad with a few tweaks. The off-road capabilities were mostly limited by the outriggers and the central diff, with another XL motor it could be improved further.

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I think you might be disappointed there. As far as I can see from the leaked photo, it looks like there are only 2 motors, or at most 3. 

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40 minutes ago, Scoar Sonander said:

I think you might be disappointed there. As far as I can see from the leaked photo, it looks like there are only 2 motors, or at most 3. 

Not sure I understand how you got to this conclusion. We can see the XL motor on the side, and the two sides are quite probably symmetric, so that makes two XLs, which are most probably for driving, since using one of them for steering would be very impractical (bad position and XLs are less precise for servo operation anyway). The steering (L) motor is probably in the middle so it's natural that it's not visible, and if by any chance there's another (L) motor for example for a gearbox, then most probably that's also in the middle, not visible again. So I'd say at least 3, at most 4 motors.

3 hours ago, kbalage said:

42070 wasn't performing that bad with a few tweaks. The off-road capabilities were mostly limited by the outriggers and the central diff, with another XL motor it could be improved further.

I agree here, was actually surprised how far you can get with a single XL motor and a fake rear suspension.. And I don't understand why people are bashing the off-road capabilities of 42070, I think it was not really focused on that, and the name is probably just a marketing thing.

For me the open questions about the Zetros are the front suspension and whether there's something new hidden inside. Either an RC gearbox or some new electronics component, like a better battery box (smaller and/or rechargeable). These are the possibilities that I find realistic. But I already like the 6 smaller tractor wheels and that it'd probably have 6 portal hubs.

One last thing I don't understand is why people stick with the supposed price, I think that's fake with a much higher chance than the leaked image..

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To my knowledge, Lego have never used 2 motors for driving a 6x6 vehicle and I don't think there's a good way to equally distribute the driving load in a manner that is robust enough for the mass market, whilst adequately protecting the motors. I fully appreciate this can obviously be done as a MOC.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, kbalage said:

42070 wasn't performing that bad with a few tweaks. The off-road capabilities were mostly limited by the outriggers and the central diff, with another XL motor it could be improved further.

That might be true, but for the price there should have been a servo for steering, 2 motors for driving to beginn with and shock absorber suspension. And they didn't even care to cover the truck bed and build a proper crane arm. The only reason all of that is absent is because it is cheaper without it. Unworthy of a anniversary Flagsip model if you ask me.

I think the Zetros will adress most of these issues. You can see the shocks on the rear axle already. There will be one motor for steering which can work as a servo, and probably one drive motor on each side working togehter. If they are feeling really generous maybe there will be get a transmission shifted by a 4th motor, something like in the Volvo. And I hope they cover up the bed properly this time...

Edited by Gray Gear

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2 hours ago, Brickend said:

To my knowledge, Lego have never used 2 motors for driving a 6x6 vehicle and I don't think there's a good way to equally distribute the driving load in a manner that is robust enough for the mass market, whilst adequately protecting the motors. I fully appreciate this can obviously be done as a MOC.

Hmm, that's an interesting point, are you assuming that hard coupling two XL motors to drive a central shaft is not a robust enough solution? Is it a problem with possibly different motor speeds? Could that problem be eliminated by the fact that the PU motors are speed regulated and two motors can be run synchronously with a single command?

Or is the problem mechanical, such as a central shaft might not distribute the load equally between the front 2 and the rear 4 wheels?

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Hard coupling to XLs can destroy axles, gears AND fingers if done wrong. Imagine the headlines if a kid got his fingers/ears/tongue/willy (yes, kids are that stupid!) mashed in a LEGO set :cannon:

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I'm guessing the C+ profile for this thing will have something similar to the 42124 - i.e. a racing game of some sort. I honestly don't see what else this set would warrant other than driving and gearbox settings.

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34 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

I'm guessing the C+ profile for this thing will have something similar to the 42124 - i.e. a racing game of some sort. I honestly don't see what else this set would warrant other than driving and gearbox settings.

Maybe the next gen farting button will be included...

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1 hour ago, gyenesvi said:

Hmm, that's an interesting point, are you assuming that hard coupling two XL motors to drive a central shaft is not a robust enough solution? Is it a problem with possibly different motor speeds? Could that problem be eliminated by the fact that the PU motors are speed regulated and two motors can be run synchronously with a single command?

Or is the problem mechanical, such as a central shaft might not distribute the load equally between the front 2 and the rear 4 wheels?

I guess PU might address some issues, but I just can't recall a time when Lego ever mechanically coupled motors? I don't know if the latest differential design is good enough to stop the bevels exploding if used to connect two XLs, but again, just doesn't seem like something that would happen outside of MOCing.

Looking at the image of the Zetros again, it is interesting to note that the motor is a reasonable distance off of  the center-line with no obvious gearing, output shafts or bracing on the output side. It could have a 12/16t gear on it but perhaps a 20t or larger would be visible in this view. Most MOCs would probably mount this motor at 90 degrees to give it a much more efficient route the center diff.

Being a licensed set, I'm also just not convinced (or hope!) that Mercedes would put up with a 42070 suspension.

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I think PU xl motors can be hard coupled easily. 

Torque is very low, compared to the old xl, and according to Philo's tests, is even lower than the PU L motors. 

 

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2 hours ago, 1974 said:

Hard coupling to XLs can destroy axles, gears AND fingers if done wrong. Imagine the headlines if a kid got his fingers/ears/tongue/willy (yes, kids are that stupid!) mashed in a LEGO set :cannon:

Oh, so you mean they would simply be too strong together? I did not think of that as a drawback.. :) Maybe that’s the reason why this is not for small kids, isn’t this going to be an 18+ set?

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Bubbha said:

I think PU xl motors can be hard coupled easily. 

Torque is very low, compared to the old xl, and according to Philo's tests, is even lower than the PU L motors. 

 

I agree with this. Also the newer diffs are way stronger. Also, the two crawlers kinda sorta had their motors coupled through the ground. Not directly but they would still be "fighting" each other, which I don't see as much of an issue. Surely most motors are under more stress in normal use?

Edited by allanp

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TLG has been mechanically coupling motors at least since 1999, with the 8448.

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1 hour ago, AVCampos said:

TLG has been mechanically coupling motors at least since 1999, with the 8448.

Thanks, I must admit I missed that one in the dark ages. Any examples from the PF/PU era?

3 hours ago, allanp said:

I agree with this. Also the newer diffs are way stronger. Also, the two crawlers kinda sorta had their motors coupled through the ground. Not directly but they would still be "fighting" each other, which I don't see as much of an issue. Surely most motors are under more stress in normal use?

Ground slippage can provide a limited clutch effect, but I see what you're getting at and would concur that motor protection is maybe not the biggest issue.

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A bit another approach; it seems like chassis is 19 or 21 studs wide so most likely there are 2 XL motors used for propulsion; question us with or without central differential

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, AVCampos said:

TLG has been mechanically coupling motors at least since 1999, with the 8448.

8448 only had the option to add one small 9v motor not two. *huh*

Edited by SNIPE

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On 4/13/2021 at 5:41 AM, spongebrickpl said:

Maybe the next gen farting button will be included...

We can only hope to be so lucky :wub_drool:

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, AVCampos said:

No, it also had the option to add two for propulsion and one for steering, to be controlled by an RCX:
https://brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=492474

I just read through the 8448 manual and theres nothing there regarding what you said, is there another source? I'm not sure if this is a mod or if its official

Edited by Milan
Removed the picture quoted from the previous post.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, SNIPE said:

I just read through the 8448 manual and theres nothing there regarding what you said, is there another source? I'm not sure if this is a mod or if its official

Go thru this Post. There is this link to download the Official Motorization PDF where it show two motors can be used.

Edited by thekoRngear

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21 hours ago, AVCampos said:

TLG has been mechanically coupling motors at least since 1999, with the 8448.

Yes, but those motors are weak sauce. Any other other examples with modern motors?

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I know for a fact that this RCX mod is not an official LEGO mod. In fact at the time I saw it on the internet and wanted to show it to my colleagues in the LEGO Technic design department. They wouldn't believe it (I had even a hard time explaining that there were AFOL's at all). Unfortunately I couldn't find the pictures anymore.

The only official model that I know of that had the option to couple two engines hardcoupled was the 8457 Power puller that I designed together with Markus. It did come with one motor in the set, but we had put everything in place so that you could add a second motor for more power. We even had to adapt the design so that it would not eat the gears when you drove it into a wall.

But to @1974's point, that were also these old 9V motors.

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