42129 - 4x4 Mercedes-Benz Zetros

[gyenesvi]

8 minutes ago, Jeroen Ottens said:

I know for a fact that this RCX mod is not an official LEGO mod. In fact at the time I saw it on the internet and wanted to show it to my colleagues in the LEGO Technic design department. They wouldn't believe it (I had even a hard time explaining that there were AFOL's at all).

Thanks for the info, given this, now we have something interesting to speculate about. Either of two things should be true

- for some reason in development, TLG did something that they have never done before (coupled two XL motors); could be because of speed regulation of PU motors

- or there is some interesting gearing happening in there, like a differential, as Igor says

11 hours ago, I_Igor said:

A bit another approach; it seems like chassis is 19 or 21 studs wide so most likely there are 2 XL motors used for propulsion; question is with or without central differential

A third option would be that the motors are not coupled but one drives the front wheels and the other the rear ones, but I highly doubt that it would be built this way (motors side by side) in that case, as that would asymmetrically distribute the load. What do you think?

I'd say it's hard coupled, as it seems quite similar to this MOC of mine, which has hard coupled motors, and if I wanted to add a central differential, I'd build it differently:

[Jundis]

I'd love to have them hard-coupled and see the power of two motors. Just because Lego has not used two XL-Motors in that manner doesn't mean it has disadvantages or problems. It's completely normal that e-motors under load reduce their rpm, so I don't see why this would harm the motors in any way. Ideal setup for me would be 2 XL for driving, 1 L for steering and 1 L for gear selection (like the 42114). If they really pull off 3 gears + 1 gear with locked diffs, then this is a serious trial truck. If the stuck with just one speed and no gearbox, then this thing has less climbing ability or less speed than the 42114, which costs less, has more parts and more functionality. 

[1gor]

@gyenesvi I think they are hard coupled but my main interest are tires. So I do not care much about XL motors; I don't have any PU element, no single motor, no (smart)hub. The only "smart" thing that I'll eventually buy is BUWIZZ...

[Jundis]

I just searched for new info and got to a video from this guy, which seems to change many things we thought we know (and is not an april fools joke, hopefully)... Short summery of the video in chronological order:

- this guy has 4 leaked photos from different angles (sadly can't show them)
- leaked pic of the 6x6 is actually a really old version and does not represent the final model
- It actually will be a 4x4, which makes now sense with the title of "Zetros 4x4"
- green and black look, sticker-heavy
- truck with a small bed, more unlikely to dump (so still a trial truck)
- new hood design in contrast to old pics
- tires are smaller than 42099 (so we can still expect 81.6)
- same wheel hub as 42099
- hood may opens
- new diffs, not sure if lockable
- gearbox included
- both axles are suspended (he says independent suspension, but maybe means live axle)
- 4 motors: 3 L and 1 M. He guesses 2 L for driving, 1 L for steering and the 1 M for gear shifting
- no winch, no tipping bed
- around 2000 parts, price still unsure, 300+ €

He says that this is not confirmed by Lego, but from two independent sources. 

[SUPER Max Black]

Cool!

[1gor]

I really hope that there will be smaller tire but not to small 81,6 is the middle point from 107 to 56...

[1gor]

He says that 2 L motors are directed to rear that means they are hard coupled

[Dylan M]

The leak image was changed? 

So there's a Hope for Changes in D11T also...🤞

[1974]

13 minutes ago, I_Igor said:

He says that 2 L motors are directed to rear that means they are hard coupled

Nah, skidsteering ftw

[Lipko]

24 minutes ago, 1974 said:

Nah, skidsteering ftw

[gyenesvi]

1 hour ago, Jundis said:

I just searched for new info and got to a video from this guy, which seems to change many things we thought we know (and is not an april fools joke, hopefully)... Short summery of the video in chronological order:

Now that changes things quite a bit for sure, not totally surprised though..

I personally would really like the 3L + 1M motor setup, but I preferred the 6x6 over the 4x4. Would have meant more new wheels for us :)

The M motor would be quite useful, but I hope they made it a bit more fitted for technic builds, the one that we know already does not have too many pin connections.

[nerdsforprez]

2 hours ago, Jundis said:

I just searched for new info and got to a video from this guy, which seems to change many things we thought we know (and is not an april fools joke, hopefully)... Short summery of the video in chronological order:

 

"hopefully"  ?? - So there is questions about the validity of this video?  Not even 3,000 views in nearly two weeks?  This isn't really groundbreaking news.....

I would have thought this would be bigger news than what the video shows.  Does anyone else other than me have questions about how valid this video is?  

[Maaboo the Witch]

8 minutes ago, nerdsforprez said:

Does anyone else other than me have questions about how valid this video is?  

It sounds like bull$hit to me too. But time will tell.

Anyway, does anyone feel that the tyre tread from 42124 would work well on the Zetros? The tyres would have to be a bit bigger though.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Maaboo35

[nerdsforprez]

I think tractor tires are much better.  These are grippy... but as I understand it tractor tires, with their linear walled treads push mud away from the tire.  Almost like paddles.  The tires from 42124 would not do that...

 

[Jurss]

They would work, but it would be really good to have those tractor type tyres on these rims.

[LvdH]

That is good news, if true. I already thought the leaked pics had to be an early design. I wonder if he has anything on the other six(?) sets.

[allanp]

IFFFFF there are two motors for drive I hope that they are hard coupled. Two motors combined into one "engine" is way more realistic than having a separate "engine" for each axle.

Another benefit of hard coupling the motors is that both axles can make use of the power of both motors. This helps greatly when driving forward up a steep slope for example, when most of the load is on the rear axle (as the front has less weight and grip). In the crawlers of the past the front axle does very little when driving up a steep slope, and so the power from the front axle motor is mostly wasted.

This is a good benefit of having the PU XL motors geared faster than the PF XL motors. The reduced torque from the PU motors mean you can hard couple two motors together more safely than with 2 PF XL motors. The stronger diffs (with higher reduction) and planetary reduction drives then allow for the same or even greater overall gearing, meaning the same or greater torque and smooth, non jerky forward motion at the wheels with less stress on components. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by allanp

[Maaboo the Witch]

If anything, I'd be over the moon to hear that the windscreen in the prelim image isn't the final one.

[spongebrickpl]

If 2 driving motors arent hard coupled then LEGO could use Control+ software together with gearbox to make central differential lock without physical differential. On low gear each motor power his own axle, and on high gear only one motor will drive just rear axle. 

[AVCampos]

Since modern motors have encoders and speed control, they can be coupled via a differential and that ensures one doesn't force the other.

[pleegwat]

I think C+ calibration could detect incorrectly assembled hard-coupled motors turning against each other.

[Andman]

3 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

Does anyone else other than me have questions about how valid this video is?

Does anyone else other than me have questions about how valid the leaked pictures are? ;-)

Jokes aside: Haven't heard anything of that guy before. But he may have contacts/sources. Who knows. The only thing i takes serious are officially released images. The current leaks showing just first concepts, is something which wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[Kaanere]

4 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

 I would have thought this would be bigger news than what the video shows.  Does anyone else other than me have questions about how valid this video is?  

Not only you. Somehow it seems weird that a picture of a set would leak out only for the final set to be completely different (apart from having the same wheels and representing the same family of vehicles). Moreover, a small channel fabricating information and posting it without sources to gain attention seems like a trivially easy thing to imagine.

Now, if only one of those four pictures or something resembling them surfaced on some random social media or got messaged to a trusted member of the community...   

[gyenesvi]

51 minutes ago, pleegwat said:

I think C+ calibration could detect incorrectly assembled hard-coupled motors turning against each other.

Just curious, how can you incorrectly assemble two motors to turn against each other (supposing that you are following official instructions)? For that, I think you'd have to completely alter the build to change the direction of rotation. At least I don't see an easy way to do it, but if there was, that would be helpful sometimes :)

[gyenesvi]

13 minutes ago, Kaanere said:

Moreover, a small channel fabricating information and posting it without sources to gain attention seems like a trivially easy thing to imagine.

That's true, but I'd say it would backfire on the longer run to spread a lot of fake info, his channel could go down the drain easily.

I have checked some other videos of him, and found something else that sounds interesting, but my german is quite rusty so someone with good german understanding could back it up. As far as I understand, he is saying that the Zetros was almost cancelled because the 6x6 version has military uses, and TLG have probably redesigned it to a 4x4 to have less resemblance and avoid protests against it. Did anyone hear something about that?