42131 - CAT D11 Bulldozer

[TeamThrifty]

4 hours ago, allanp said:

with variable position swash plate

Like a hydrostatic motor on something like a fendt tractor..?

[JLSTechnic]

On 12/21/2020 at 1:55 AM, allanp said:

Compact PU actuated pneumatic valve with integral servo motor

I definitely think some type of new PU components will be released.

Also I think LEGO will go for an electro-pneumatic system for the D11T. My thought is since the 42100 showcased how linear actuators could be used the 42131 will bring a new generation of advanced pneumatics. 

[JaBaCaDaBra]

On 12/16/2020 at 11:45 AM, Maaboo35 said:

Instant bore.

I bulldoze you

[Glaysche]

An option that would be pretty nice would be if they included a 51515 hub instead of two Technic hubs.  That would allow 6 motors with a single hub and be rechargeable.  To follow the pattern before of Mindstorms components going to technic, they would probably recolor the hub to be LBG/DBG just like the large angular motor that went into 42114.  I suspect it would be a relatively simple software change to make the 51515 hub work with the PoweredUp and Control+ apps.

[howitzer]

1 hour ago, Glaysche said:

An option that would be pretty nice would be if they included a 51515 hub instead of two Technic hubs.  That would allow 6 motors with a single hub and be rechargeable.  To follow the pattern before of Mindstorms components going to technic, they would probably recolor the hub to be LBG/DBG just like the large angular motor that went into 42114.  I suspect it would be a relatively simple software change to make the 51515 hub work with the PoweredUp and Control+ apps.

That's how I would do it, but I'm sure that's not how TLG is going to do it :)

[JaBaCaDaBra]

On 12/23/2020 at 2:12 PM, JLSTechnic said:

I definitely think some type of new PU components will be released.

Also I think LEGO will go for an electro-pneumatic system for the D11T. My thought is since the 42100 showcased how linear actuators could be used the 42131 will bring a new generation of advanced pneumatics. 

It will have nothing special.

Back to reality:

1 Technic hub, as usuall controlled by the C+ app
2 drive motors
1 motor for lifting the blade
1 motor for lifting the raper

Lifting the blade will be with actuators, maybe the new long one, depends on size
Same at the rear but only one.

Some new colors may be involved.
New parts? Only time will tell us.

About all the mentioned new parts
New larger tracks: Only if they're planning more very large machinery, new molds cost a lot.
(D11 is a large monster, I wonder what scale it will be)
51515 Hub, Very unlikely, it's not ment for this kind of set but this is a personal guess.
New motors: No, there's no need since the current motors can do everything.
Pneumatics: That chapter is passed.
Very complicated parts like electropneumatic valves would drive te price sky high.
(But would be awesome to have)

Oh well, I would love to see all those dreamt-of new parts too but to be realistic....

Edited January 9, 2021 by JaBaCaDaBra

[Maaboo the Witch]

It's gonna be 8275 all over again, but with C+.

[JaBaCaDaBra]

4 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

It's gonna be 8275 all over again, but with C+.

Maybe bigger

Having a look at the real machine (awesome, I want one to drive to work )
The raper will also have 2 actuators and the blade 4.
If you look at the tracks you will find that they are quite small compared to this large dozer, so no new tracks needed.
 

 

Oh and a new one-piece dozer blade might be the most interesting new part.

Edited January 9, 2021 by JaBaCaDaBra

[Ngoc Nguyen]

19 minutes ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

1 Technic hub, as usuall controlled by the C+ app
2 drive motors
1 motor for lifting the blade
1 motor for lifting the raper

I'd say two hubs and six functions.

[JaBaCaDaBra]

What would be the sixt function?

1 & 2  for tracks (includes steering)
3 for raper lift
4 for tilting the blade*
5 for lifting the blade

*I overlooked that one

Edited January 9, 2021 by JaBaCaDaBra

[Ngoc Nguyen]

Just now, JaBaCaDaBra said:

What would be the sixt function?

1 & 2  for tracks (includes steering)
1 for raper lift
1 for tilting the blade*
1 for lifting the blade

*I overlooked that one

Ripper lift, ripper tile, blade lift, blade tilt, 2 tracks

[JaBaCaDaBra]

ripper tilt?

ow, you're right
thats 6

[allanp]

53 minutes ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

It will have nothing special.

Back to reality:

1 Technic hub, as usuall controlled by the C+ app
2 drive motors
1 motor for lifting the blade
1 motor for lifting the raper

Lifting the blade will be with actuators, maybe the new long one, depends on size
Same at the rear but only one.

Some new colors may be involved.
New parts? Only time will tell us.

About all the mentioned new parts
New larger tracks: Only if they're planning more very large machinery, new molds cost a lot.
(D11 is a large monster, I wonder what scale it will be)
51515 Hub, Very unlikely, it's not ment for this kind of set but this is a personal guess.
New motors: No, there's no need since the current motors can do everything.
Pneumatics: That chapter is passed.
Very complicated parts like electropneumatic valves would drive te price sky high.
(But would be awesome to have)

Oh well, I would love to see all those dreamt-of new parts too but to be realistic....

Well that would be the boring same old same old version, so lets hope its not that.

We don't know that it will be that. My speculation for lots of wonderful new pneumatic goodness is based on three things mainly.

1) Lego do not like to invest in new parts and then not use them again, and in 2018 they gave use a new pneumatic valve, for only a mid sized set, that would have worked fine with the old design of valve, so they must have something in mind for the new valve. The axle hole in the middle makes it easy to connect a servo motor, so this would point to them thinking about RC pneumatics.  

2) The bulldozer is rumoured to be very expensive. Perhaps more so than 42100. But why? It's not like a bulldozer has as many functions, or the complexity of such an excavator, so why the extra cost? Surely it cant just be a bunch of motors driving their functions through LAs, there must be something more to make it more....lifelike perhaps?

3) For all the times some members here say "they don't listen to us" and "4000 piece, $450 flagships aren't meant for us adults!" firstly I say that's nonsense, and secondly with the release of longer pneumatics, new valves with the ports on the rear, Claas tyres, new much stronger differential, planetary rear reduction hubs, larger/stronger CV joints and so on, I think it's pretty clear that they do listen from time to time, and with more people than just me demanding more pneumatic sets and RC pneumatics, there is every chance that they will listen again. And maybe we'll also get leaf springs in the Merc and lots of different sized clutch gears in the 2022 supercar!

Lets wait and see. I don't know any more than you do. But I am hopeful for a flagship that follows a formula a bit more exciting than (motor>gears>LA)*functions + zero.

[Josephiah]

I can't see them doing Control+ with pneumatics, as you would then need position sensing to tell when an actuator stroke had been completed (unlike a geared mechanism or linear actuator where the number of turns is known).

[allanp]

18 minutes ago, Josephiah said:

I can't see them doing Control+ with pneumatics, as you would then need position sensing to tell when an actuator stroke had been completed (unlike a geared mechanism or linear actuator where the number of turns is known).

Why does it need position sensing? Most real life vehicles don't have it. That's what the driver's for!

[JaBaCaDaBra]

Just now, allanp said:

That's what the driver's for!
vehicles don't have it

The driver on this machine is more or less a high skilled system controller and operator.
These machines are almost fully computer controlled and can do many things automated.
This goes nowadays for even the simpelst terrain leveling or agriculuture machine.
No muscles needed but instead a lot of insight in operating.

They level terrains on GPS base, they level terrains on mm's exact, everything goes automated under supervision from the "driver".
Offcourse they can be manually operated and just push lots of cubic tons dirt around.

Control plus offers some of these automated actions.
FA leveling terrain and automated blade hight depending on terrain angle is possible.

[Lira_Bricks]

2 hours ago, Maaboo35 said:

It's gonna be 8275 all over again, but with C+.

Is this meant in a negative way? I know which set it is, but don't know if people here liked the set or not :P

[1gor]

56 minutes ago, Lira_Bricks said:

Is this meant in a negative way? I know which set it is, but don't know if people here liked the set or not :P

In realistic way

[J159753]

8275 cost me £99.99 (direct from Lego) when it came out. A far cry from this set's rumoured cost... 8275 seemed like excellent value at the time, and the new remote control power functions were very exciting. I remember being impressed by some of the ways it had been made so strong (and how weak a few extremities were), but thinking how mechanically simple and straightforward it was. It worked very well, but (apart from being remote control) wasn't that interesting.

[Maaboo the Witch]

51 minutes ago, J159753 said:

It worked very well, but (apart from being remote control) wasn't that interesting.

Exactly. Bulldozers are cool but they just don't have a big list of functions, at least not enough for a £400 set. I'd say 42028 had the ideal size and price point.

[jorgeopesi]

Since the cost for us it is not a problem for Lego I would say...

2 motors for tracks

1 motor for the 2 lifting cylinders of the ripper

 1 motor for the 2 tilting cylinders of the ripper

1 motor for the left lifting cylinder of the blade

1 motor for the right lifting cylinder of the blade

1 motor for the left tilting cylinder of the blade

1 motor for the right tilting cylinder of the blade

I would say that they will use big and extra big linear actuators and I would not expect equalizer bar for the roller frames due the final weight.

Final functions 6 but you could change the lifting and tilting blade angles.

[pleegwat]

2 hours ago, allanp said:

Why does it need position sensing? Most real life vehicles don't have it. That's what the driver's for! 

And you don't really have position control on pneumatics. You'd have to go hydraulic, and it just feels unlikely to me for them to ever include that. An electronic pressure sensor to control the compressor is possible.

[allanp]

7 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

Exactly. Bulldozers are cool but they just don't have a big list of functions, at least not enough for a £400 set. I'd say 42028 had the ideal size and price point.

That's what I'm saying. For this price point, it can't just recreate the functions with the usual unrealistic mechanisms in a big, impressive looking shell. It needs something more, right? 

Rant warning!!! I mean if they are going to do yet another model where each function has its own motor connected via fairly simple drive trains, well we've had a lot of those types of models already. Can't they alternate at least, so have this bulldozer be a RC pneumatic wonder of mechanical authenticity, then next year do a massive fully RC 42009 type crane truck with the simple one motor per function stuff. If they had a bit more variety in their mechanics I'd probably be much more open to 42100 or 42082 type models. But it's all just the same motors, gearboxes and LAs all the time. All the same mechanisms just packaged in the shape of a digger or a vtol or a crane or whatever. So next time they do a big helicopter for example, how about NOT having a multifunction gearbox? Instead have new cyclic/collective parts. Next time they do a hydraulic machine how about NOT using LAs for a change. Next time they do a supercar how about NOT using the same basic double wishbone geometry and lack of Ackerman geometry. You see, it's all the same. But you know what? I often feel this way but every now and then they surprise me, they put something out that keeps me hooked. They'll release an Arocs or a Class or 8455 so who knows. 

[kbalage]

3 hours ago, Josephiah said:

I can't see them doing Control+ with pneumatics, as you would then need position sensing to tell when an actuator stroke had been completed (unlike a geared mechanism or linear actuator where the number of turns is known).

A pneumatic system does not really need to detect endpoints. 42100 needs to be calibrated for 2 reasons - one is to be able to use the visual controller matching the actual position of the arm and the bucket, the other is to avoid engaging the actuator clutches. With the motors controlling the pneumatic valves there's no option for a visual controller but they don't need any protection either.

But such system with the 4 pneumatic functions would require 4 tacho motors, I think it's quite an overkill to add 4 Large PU motors just to control the valves. It'd be a great opportunity to introduce a micro motor for the PU system :) Anyway, it'd be quite refreshing to see a set with RC pneumatics instead of putting the Liebherr setup in a different form factor. 

[Bartybum]

1 hour ago, allanp said:

Can't they alternate at least, so have this bulldozer be a RC pneumatic wonder of mechanical authenticity

If it really is fully RC pneumatics, how much would the eight pneumatic cylinders, four valves, one (or even two!) pumps and PU motor cost? I feel like that’s more than just the 50€ price increase.

Perhaps it’ll only have 3k pieces? The D11T’s chassis looks like it’d cover roughly the same footprint as 42100, just by looking at the relative size of the driving sprockets in each. Knock 1k pieces off for the shovel arm, and suddenly we’re possibly at a 3k piece set.

Curious...

Edited January 9, 2021 by Bartybum
sneaky