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DarthMario

[MOC] [INSTRUCTIONS] Imperial TIE Fighter

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Hello all!  This is my first attempt at a UCS style MOC.  I've been wanting to redo all my playset Star Wars sets, so I decided to start with the TIE Fighter, and I am really happy with the results.  

If you want to get the instructions, I posted them on ReBrickable for download.

Here is the model from the front and back:

Ic0b5UI.png

56Jo3Ef.png

And here it is with my other UCS sets:

4HGWG5p.jpg

For those who are interested, here is some of the earlier versions of the model.  First, this is what I dubbed the fat TIE.

BoOSSkd.png

Then, the wings got slimmed down.  At this point they were still plates instead of bricks.

v2d0osr.png

This was the last iteration before I built the physical model.  It looks a lot like the final version, but it could not support its own weight, so the cockpit and arms were completely changed.

r8HVUIi.png

Edited by DarthMario
typo

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6 minutes ago, JintaiZ said:

Amazing! You've really captured the curves well.

Thanks! It was extremely satisfying to complete because I have never done anything with this much SNOT.

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1 hour ago, Rubblemaker said:

It’s nicely done but it does essentially look like just a lightly modded version of Jerac’s model.

https://www.brickvault.toys/products/new-tie-fighter

If I were you I would be crediting him as the originator of the majority of your build. I would also ensure you have Brickvaults permission to sell instructions for this as in the past they have threatened legal action against those selling instructions for modded versions of their models.

I did not copy that model.  Yes, I have seen it, but, no, I was not looking at it when I was building.  The only thing I used for inspiration was the dome pieces to form the ball, but that hardly qualifies as majority of the build.  I just watched the video where they show the model in detail, and almost everything is different: the cockpit hatch opens up and you can put the figure through the top, the wings have only two sections (and to be honest, I used the edge from my Solo tie fighter, just swapped the plates for tiles), almost all of the detailing is different.  I was only looking at my Star Wars visual guides for reference specifically so I would not copy anyone.  

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Just now, Rubblemaker said:

If you say so. Though yours still looks pretty much identical to Jerac’s but with some slightly different pieces dotted around it. I do think it’s only fair that you should be crediting him but it’s your choice of course. This guy said exactly what you’ve said above about his X wing, and you can see in his thread how that worked out for him (incidentally he’d also copied Jerac’s Tie Fighter): https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/170838-moc-red-five-x-wing-starfighter/&tab=comments#comment-3094226

 

 

I've been looking at the two side by side and really the main central fuselage with the dome pieces that are kinda similar and thats pretty much it. Brickvault does not own the ability to use those dome pieces and tie fighter canopies with their mocs, with Lego there are only a limited amount of ways to create structures and designs, there will be many common pieces used between these designs as they are all trying to resemble the original source material to their best ability. 

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5 minutes ago, Rubblemaker said:

Yep, same arguments as the ones put forward in the thread I linked to. That guy still had to take down his instructions on Brickvaults request. Look, bottom line is, just like that x wing, this looks pretty much the same as Jerac’s. If you want to deny it, cool. To each his own. This is just my opinion. As a moc maker I believe it’s fair to credit others who think up the designs you go on to modify for your own model. And to probably not sell instructions for your mod as it undermines theirs. It a courtesy thing, not everyone agrees. That’s fine. :)

I still don’t see how they are so similar that you are saying it is just a mod. The guy you linked earlier, their TIE fighter has the same exact wing design were the bricks are in all different directions.  I even have the earlier versions posted, and they look far from similar. If I was going to copy, why would I have made so many different iterations? I don’t think using the dome piece idea warrants calling it a mod. That is like saying Android phones need to credit the iPhone for the whole touch screen phone idea. 
 

I had fun designing it, my friends gave me input every step of the way, and I put the time in to make instructions if anyone else wants to make it. 

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On 11/25/2020 at 12:09 AM, Rubblemaker said:

It’s nicely done but it does essentially look like just a lightly modded version of Jerac’s model.

https://www.brickvault.toys/products/new-tie-fighter

If I were you I would be crediting him as the originator of the majority of your build. I would also ensure you have Brickvaults permission to sell instructions for this as in the past they have threatened legal action against those selling instructions for modded versions of their models.

There are some similarities but I don't think they are too similar. There are many parts that are done different.

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13 hours ago, JintaiZ said:

There are some similarities but I don't think they are too similar. There are many parts that are done different.

I even went as far as to ask people who know little to nothing about Lego if they thought one model was a copy of the other, and they all said no.  They all cited that the wings, arms were nothing alike and that the cockpit besides the printed pieces and the domes did look similar, but the shaping around it was not the same. 

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1 hour ago, DarthMario said:

I even went as far as to ask people who know little to nothing about Lego if they thought one model was a copy of the other, and they all said no.  They all cited that the wings, arms were nothing alike and that the cockpit besides the printed pieces and the domes did look similar, but the shaping around it was not the same. 

I think there are plenty of differences between yours and Brickvault's, you should by no means take your instructions down or be pressured into doing so. Some people just like to cause trouble for no reason.

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On 11/27/2020 at 11:31 PM, tfcrafter said:

I think there are plenty of differences between yours and Brickvault's, you should by no means take your instructions down or be pressured into doing so. Some people just like to cause trouble for no reason.

That is what I suspect, anyways, thank you for the support.

On 11/28/2020 at 2:07 AM, Sebosaure said:

Very interesting rebuild!! It's hard to remove stud

Thanks! I usually don't try to hide the studs, but sometimes it just works out.

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Minor update to the model.  I just found out about the new 3x3x1 round corner bricks and used those to make the engine look much more like the movie model.  Under the hood, some structural changes were made to make it a bit more sturdy.  

The only unfortunate thing is the light bluish grey variant only comes in the new Poe Dameron's X-wing Fighter (75273) so the piece isn't easy to come by.  Fortunately, you do get 8 in that set.  Hopefully Lego will release this piece in more sets with more colors, because I think it will be used for a lot of great MOCs.

QYzDeVs.png

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Very nice TIE Fighter!

Anyway, I am this 'guy' Rubblemaker keeps going on about and reading this discussion was quite amusing. Anyway, what really happened is this: some people thought I made copies of Jerac's models which I didn't. And only the X-wing was available as a free download for a short period of time. Those who have my version and purchased Jerac's version must notice it's a completely different build even though it might appear to look the same (well, yeah, it's an x-wing). And yes, I did take it down on request by brickvault. Why? Because I was tired of getting accused all the time... and apparently I still am getting accused after almost 2 years. It made me leave the Eurobricks community. And please don't believe a word about brickvault or other parties taking legal action against you. Unless BrickVault has a license to sell instructions based on IPs like Star Wars they themselves and their builders can be sued by the IP-holder (which is Disney).

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37 minutes ago, Swan Dutchman said:

Very nice TIE Fighter!

Anyway, I am this 'guy' Rubblemaker keeps going on about and reading this discussion was quite amusing. Anyway, what really happened is this: some people thought I made copies of Jerac's models which I didn't. And only the X-wing was available as a free download for a short period of time. Those who have my version and purchased Jerac's version must notice it's a completely different build even though it might appear to look the same (well, yeah, it's an x-wing). And yes, I did take it down on request by brickvault. Why? Because I was tired of getting accused all the time... and apparently I still am getting accused after almost 2 years. It made me leave the Eurobricks community. And please don't believe a word about brickvault or other parties taking legal action against you. Unless BrickVault has a license to sell instructions based on IPs like Star Wars they themselves and their builders can be sued by the IP-holder (which is Disney).

That really sucks.  I think I said it before, but some people just enjoy making chaos and or the whole crabs in a bucket analogy; you don't need to put a lid on a bucket full of crabs because if one tries to climb out the rest will pull it down. I remember seeing yours and besides the fact it was a TIE Fighter, I have to say it seemed structurally different.  When I think of a 'copy', I imagine something like when Lego re-releases the X-Wing or Millennium Falcon with minor changes from the last version, but the guts are all the same.  You are obviously a talented builder, and it is a shame you were essentially bullied off the site.

Edit: I just realized 'Rubblemaker' was the same guy accusing you of stealing! 

Edited by DarthMario

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On 11/24/2020 at 11:09 PM, Rubblemaker said:

It’s nicely done but it does essentially look like just a lightly modded version of Jerac’s model.

https://www.brickvault.toys/products/new-tie-fighter

If I were you I would be crediting him as the originator of the majority of your build. I would also ensure you have Brickvaults permission to sell instructions for this as in the past they have threatened legal action against those selling instructions for modded versions of their models.

I feel like I have to agree here. It's not illegal or anything (well, technically selling instructions on any star wars IP could get you sued by lucasfilm), but it is kind of a scummy thing to sell instructions that are basically just a mod of another build. 

I also find it interesting that the prior guy to do this deleted a ton of his posts an hour ago after commenting here, as well as his x-wing and TIE fighter moc topics. If he really feels that he's right, why hide the evidence?

Edited by Mandalorianknight

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26 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said:

I feel like I have to agree here. It's not illegal or anything (well, technically selling instructions on any star wars IP could get you sued by lucasfilm), but it is kind of a scummy thing to sell instructions that are basically just a mod of another build. 

I also find it interesting that the prior guy to do this deleted a ton of his posts an hour ago after commenting here, as well as his x-wing and TIE fighter moc topics. If he really feels that he's right, why hide the evidence?

The images are still on the Flicker album.  I think he just didn't want to deal with it anymore.  If you are being dogpiled on the internet, sometimes it is just easier to leave than try to defend yourself, even when you are in the right.  And I agree selling instructions for a mod would be scummy, but I do not think mine or his are mods.  I looked at the instructions and compared them to mine, and they are completely different.  You can even look at the parts inventory for both and see there is very little overlap there as well.

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Hoooo, boy, So this one is still raging. I feel bad that my observation caused so much dissent here. I’ll go on record now with a few things. Swan Dutchman is an absolutely superb builder. Unmatched in many ways. He made Tutankhamen’s mask out of Lego for gods sake! I couldn’t do that if I lived to be a million. Yes, his x wing and tie fighter looked to me like mods being presented as mocs. I pointed out that he should credit Jerac. I don’t actually recall accusing him of ‘stealing’. That’s a pretty strong assessment of my thoughts on Swans moc. If I remember rightly Jerac himself commented in that thread which is probably how Brickvault became involved. And I’m really glad to hear they never actually took legal action and Swan himself took the instructions down amicably. I’ll readily accept here and now that Swan’s creation was his own there as are all of his mocs. Even happy to go back and delete my comments in the thread. 

DarthMario, I had the same feelings looking at your Tie here, that it’s polite to credit those whose designs inspire. I’ll admit using the words ‘majority of your build’ wasn’t a good choice at all and I can see how the flames started growing. I take it back, really I do. I can see you’ve put in a lot of work here with many iterations and it really is a beautiful model. Don’t take the instructions down and don’t consult anyone either. Of course you shouldn’t need to. Swan is in the know here, I’m not, and if he says Brickvault shouldn’t be a concern to you then that’s the way it is. And if you say your moc is your own and not a mod of anyone else’s that’s good enough for me too. Im sure your instructions are completely different to the Jerac model.

I had actually forgotten about this thread until the other day. I’m currently making a razor crest moc and it got me thinking.. how many ways can we really make mocs of designs that already exist?. Moc making is the art and Lego is the medium. We work with the pieces we have and as in the case of your tie, those quarter domes are indeed the best way to achieve the right look. There’s simply nothing better yet. As you yourself said, just using them doesn’t mean you’ve copied someone else who did too.

I stopped looking at Razor Crest mocs a few weeks ago so as to hopefully not get influenced by others parts usage but as I’ve been building I’ve been thinking, Will someone else have had the same thoughts I did and used that same wedge piece?

Which got me thinking about this thread again. And then I saw I was quoted. So to one and all. Just ignore me. I was not correct on this. This moc of DarthMarios is killer, as was Swan’s. I remain impressed and in awe of the talent I see on this site and hope we can all get along with my big mouth becoming a bit smaller. Peace!

 

 

Edited by Rubblemaker

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Guys, just to be clear: I do not own a patent for a TIE Fighter made with 8 of those quarter-dome pieces and brick-built panels. This here is clearly a different design aside from those elements. 

It so happens that any relatively good proportioned T/F using these parts will look similar, there is no way around it until some new piece happens to be made. 

Chill, its cool!
The design itself also is!


 

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1 hour ago, Jerac said:

Guys, just to be clear: I do not own a patent for a TIE Fighter made with 8 of those quarter-dome pieces and brick-built panels. This here is clearly a different design aside from those elements. 

It so happens that any relatively good proportioned T/F using these parts will look similar, there is no way around it until some new piece happens to be made. 

Chill, its cool!
The design itself also is!


 

Agreed 100%. And the use of the round corner bricks in the later iteration is really good! I've deleted my other posts in this thread. I certainly didn't want them to cause the uproar that they have.

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14 hours ago, Rubblemaker said:

Hoooo, boy, So this one is still raging. I feel bad that my observation caused so much dissent here. I’ll go on record now with a few things. Swan Dutchman is an absolutely superb builder. Unmatched in many ways. He made Tutankhamen’s mask out of Lego for gods sake! I couldn’t do that if I lived to be a million. Yes, his x wing and tie fighter looked to me like mods being presented as mocs. I pointed out that he should credit Jerac. I don’t actually recall accusing him of ‘stealing’. That’s a pretty strong assessment of my thoughts on Swans moc. If I remember rightly Jerac himself commented in that thread which is probably how Brickvault became involved. And I’m really glad to hear they never actually took legal action and Swan himself took the instructions down amicably. I’ll readily accept here and now that Swan’s creation was his own there as are all of his mocs. Even happy to go back and delete my comments in the thread. 

DarthMario, I had the same feelings looking at your Tie here, that it’s polite to credit those whose designs inspire. I’ll admit using the words ‘majority of your build’ wasn’t a good choice at all and I can see how the flames started growing. I take it back, really I do. I can see you’ve put in a lot of work here with many iterations and it really is a beautiful model. Don’t take the instructions down and don’t consult anyone either. Of course you shouldn’t need to. Swan is in the know here, I’m not, and if he says Brickvault shouldn’t be a concern to you then that’s the way it is. And if you say your moc is your own and not a mod of anyone else’s that’s good enough for me too. Im sure your instructions are completely different to the Jerac model.

I had actually forgotten about this thread until the other day. I’m currently making a razor crest moc and it got me thinking.. how many ways can we really make mocs of designs that already exist?. Moc making is the art and Lego is the medium. We work with the pieces we have and as in the case of your tie, those quarter domes are indeed the best way to achieve the right look. There’s simply nothing better yet. As you yourself said, just using them doesn’t mean you’ve copied someone else who did too.

I stopped looking at Razor Crest mocs a few weeks ago so as to hopefully not get influenced by others parts usage but as I’ve been building I’ve been thinking, Will someone else have had the same thoughts I did and used that same wedge piece?

Which got me thinking about this thread again. And then I saw I was quoted. So to one and all. Just ignore me. I was not correct on this. This moc of DarthMarios is killer, as was Swan’s. I remain impressed and in awe of the talent I see on this site and hope we can all get along with my big mouth becoming a bit smaller. Peace!

 

 

I am really happy to have this resolved.  I agree about what you said regarding Swan Dutchman, some of the MOCs on his page are master builder quality.  Good luck with your Razor Crest!  I have been doing one in my spare time as well, and it is definitely not as easy as it looks.

7 hours ago, Jerac said:

Guys, just to be clear: I do not own a patent for a TIE Fighter made with 8 of those quarter-dome pieces and brick-built panels. This here is clearly a different design aside from those elements. 

It so happens that any relatively good proportioned T/F using these parts will look similar, there is no way around it until some new piece happens to be made. 

Chill, its cool!
The design itself also is!


 

Thanks! Your MOCs are awesome, so that really means a lot!

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