Robot Inventor vs Spike Prime

[Skookumjim]

Having passed over EV3 as being long in the tooth I was eager to buy Robot Inventor oblivious of the existence of Spike Prime.

As of now I am really regretting not knowing about Spike Prime which appears to more of a toolkit that a toybox and by now has some useful 3rd party contributions.

Having reported various frustrating manual and software issues to Lego I now find that the word block descriptions appear to have been taken down (they are still there on Spike Prime). 

I am minded to load the Spike Prime Firmware onto my RI microprocessor and forget Robot Inventor altogether. Does anyone know whether this is feasible? I guess that it will be as I cant imagine Lego having different chipsets in these boxes.

[Jim]

Hi,

You can change the firmware to SP. It's basically the same hardware with different firmware.

Care to elaborate about the functions/feature you are missing and which are provided by 3rd party contributions?

[Skookumjim]

Thanks

from memory....

I found the printed manual next to useless... the modes of operation of the microprocessor were totally opaque .. and there is at least one that I cant fathom.

There were omissions in the python write up (such as conversions from Scratch). There is no way to save code as there is in Spike Prime. It is not possible to print out word block descriptions or python help pages.

I still cant figure out exactly how to create and use bespoke Scratch blocks.

I had my ipad freeze up a few times using Scratch. Moving some code from my desktop to the ipad caused the loss of all previous models that I had written. i have had some weird coding issues with Scratch... a perfectly good change to a lengthy bit of code can cause the physical model to behave strangely.. dismantle bits of code and reassemble as was and suddenly it works (that probably is also true of Spike Prime).

In contrast I am impressed by the geometry/connectivity  of the hardware although I have found the medium motors underpowered for a simple robot arm.. they seem to be built for speed not torque and have been difficult to position slowly and accurately under load.

The third comment relates to people who have built interesting models and published the code such as a balancing robot or the Swirlbot.

 

[Skookumjim]

... also the RI project page puts user projects at the bottom of the page below all the built in code listings...having to scroll down every time is very annoying.

[NoRealRoots]

On 11/23/2020 at 12:44 PM, Jim said:

Hi,

You can change the firmware to SP. It's basically the same hardware with different firmware.

Care to elaborate about the functions/feature you are missing and which are provided by 3rd party contributions?

Excuse my naivety, but would you be able to point me towards a tutorial/instructions as to how to change the firmware on the brick? We use Mindstorms for outreach where I work, and I was looking to see if I could use the SP app with the Mindstorms kit so that we could use the touch sensor with it - thereby getting best of both worlds by buying Inventor and a spare SP touch. Thank you!

[NoRealRoots]

Huh, guess I was doing something wrong - I was trying to update the brick via the Spike Prime app and it kept failing. I just tried again and it seemed to work, so not sure what was going wrong. Thanks anyway!

[Skookumjim]

I am slowly learning more about the two apps. The documenttion is dreadful. It beggars belief that they dont both have the same underlying functionality (or if they do it is hidden!). It is indeed very frustrating that one has functions that the other doesnt. As of yet I havent tried to switch to Spike Prime as the remote control available in Robot Inventor has more play potential. (I found a non interactive line drawing robot and similarly a robot arm didnt keep my interest once they were working.  Sadly Robot Inventor lacks several of the features of Spike Prime such as graphs and "more sensors". What I did discover is that a bit of Spike Prime Scratch code (not python) can be exported to Robot Inventor successfully simply by changing the file name from .llsp to .lms

Whether this trick will unlock a bit of hidden code on the Inventor remains to be seen ..if it does you can run the force sensor.

I have also exported balancing robot python code from Spike Prime having to make a very small number of changes to make it run on Inventor.... this approach may also help you.

It is also possible that the Scratch code might magically appear if a force sensor is attached to the Inventor brick?

As of yet I have not tried to switch firmware.

[Tcm0]

You can use the SPIKE hub with the robot inventor software and the other way around. They require a firmware update but that's due to a mismatch of the fws bundled within the apps. However the start animation (heart vs arrow) stay the one of the hub.

[Munchkin255]

I switched from EV3 to Spike Prime this June and hasn't regretted it at all. Through my experiments with Spike Prime I have learned to program in Python.

What I especially like about using Python is, that I am not limited to the tools provided to me by the Spike App. I can do anything that Micropython is capable of - even if it isn't documented in the app.
This works because the Spike app is merely an editor with the code compilation being carried out in the Spike Prime Hub.

I have for example been able to access the raw acceleration data by using Google and a lot of trial and error:

import hub
hub_status = hub.status()
acc = hub_status.get('accelerometer')
acc_x = acc[0]
acc_y = acc[1]
acc_z = acc[2]

Yes, I know there is a Scratch code block for that, but there isn't a function in Python yet.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Munchkin255
Fixed typo

[4ndrej]

I've got Robot Inventor which seems to be hw compatiblw with the Spike.

The Spike app needs an firmware upgrade.

Is it possible to install the RI firmware back after it was once upgraded to Spike firmware?

[Jim]

37 minutes ago, 4ndrej said:

Is it possible to install the RI firmware back after it was once upgraded to Spike firmware?

Yup, that is possible!

[scatrmind]

Very possible (and confirmed)...

On a daily basis, my SP hub freezes after running a given program for about 20 minutes (whether in streaming mode or not). Then, the Spike app indicates that I need to update the firmware. Just as when I connected the hub for the first time, the update allegedly completes in mere seconds. Just now, I connected to the SP hub with the RI app, which indicated I needed to update the firmware. This time, the update took several minutes. I bounced back to the Spike app, which again indicated I needed a firmware update (because I had the RI one on there). This firmware update also took several minutes. Perhaps my previous update attempts were not truly successful.

I am hoping my SP hub will now stop seizing up randomly. Is there a limitation on the duration a program can run??

EDIT: The SP hub continued to seize up after looping my program for 20+ minutes. I cannot use the RI software because I am using a force sensor, which the RI software does not support. So, I removed the loop from my program and used Pulover's Macro Creator to loop the program for me. The Pulover macro simply pushes the play button in the SP app at the set interval. This solution works for me because I've had the hub connected to my PC the whole time anyways. I made an SP CNC that looks like a modern version of Lego set 8094. It ran throughout the night last night, no problem.

Edited January 9, 2021 by scatrmind
update regarding random Spike hub seize up