LEGO Trains 2021

[Withacee]

On 10/19/2021 at 11:49 PM, zachsterosu said:

I see there is creator expert set 10298 releasing next year. It's listed as an "unknown vehicle" for $99. With the crocodile locomotive soon to be discontinued, what are the chances that this could be a new train?

On Instagram, it is rumoured that 10298 is a Vespa scooter that will be released in February 2022, for EUR 99,99.
In which case it does not belong in this thread :-)
Hope it's true, though. As much as I like LEGO trains, that Vespa definitely sounds interesting.

[zachsterosu]

@Withacee Yeah, it now seems that is almost certainly the case. Back to the wishing well I go lol...

[M_slug357]

@Withacee I'd definitely prefer more CITY city trains versus a scale scooter replica...

with a big emphasis on the CITY part

 

[Djmojo]

In the lego store in my country, the crocodile and disney train are marked as sold out, hogwarts express is marked as backorder aviable in a month and the two city trains are Temporarily sold out. I cannot remember that this has been the case before. This must be the only "theme" you cannot get hold of right now 😅 isn’t this a weird move right before christmas as its atleast the city trains prime sell time?

[TeriXeri]

31 minutes ago, Djmojo said:

In the lego store in my country, the crocodile and disney train are marked as sold out, hogwarts express is marked as backorder aviable in a month and the two city trains are Temporarily sold out. I cannot remember that this has been the case before. This must be the only "theme" you cannot get hold of right now 😅 isn’t this a weird move right before christmas as its atleast the city trains prime sell time?

Maybe there's a shortage of electronic parts ? Considering all the chip shortages and container issues it wouldn't even suprise me if that's part of the reason City train sets are in lower availability right now.

Edited November 2, 2021 by TeriXeri

[jburgt]

34 minutes ago, Djmojo said:

In the lego store in my country, the crocodile and disney train are marked as sold out, hogwarts express is marked as backorder aviable in a month and the two city trains are Temporarily sold out. I cannot remember that this has been the case before. This must be the only "theme" you cannot get hold of right now 😅 isn’t this a weird move right before christmas as its atleast the city trains prime sell time?

As OO gauge modeltrain enthousiast I think it’s more and more normal that new models were announced to build in the future, so you can pre-order them. When you think I wait for the real product, you are too late. The production quota are very, very limited. Perhaps Lego trains are no longer a product for children, and as special AFOL niche meets other trade laws.

Edited November 2, 2021 by jburgt

[legotownlinz]

21 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Maybe there's a shortage of electronic parts ? Considering all the chip shortages and container issues it wouldn't even suprise me if that's part of the reason City train sets are in lower availability right now.

Or maybe there's demand because kids like trains? 

[XG BC]

1 hour ago, legotownlinz said:

Or maybe there's demand because kids like trains? 

no kids dont like trains (atleast thats what lego seems to think based on their releases!)

[Amoreternum]

Why would Lego not like trains? If they did not, they would have discontinued the line long ago and never would have released the Krokodil. It's just a niche and for a huge company like Lego too big an investment, especially when you consider the small size of the train hobby in general.

[jburgt]

3 hours ago, Amoreternum said:

Why would Lego not like trains? If they did not, they would have discontinued the line long ago and never would have released the Krokodil. It's just a niche and for a huge company like Lego too big an investment, especially when you consider the small size of the train hobby in general.

I ask it earlier, is Lego a maker of kits or of DIY building bricks? For train enthousiasts is it i.m.o. more important to have all the bricks in the different colors to assembly your own train models, and/or providers for instructions or complete train building kits. There are enough other ways to get nice Lego trains. You miss only the official card case of Lego. Is that a great problem?

[Bartosz]

1 hour ago, jburgt said:

I ask it earlier, is Lego a maker of kits or of DIY building bricks?

It's more expensive to treat it like supplier of bricks, the price per brick is lower for sets.

[jburgt]

28 minutes ago, Bartosz said:

It's more expensive to treat it like supplier of bricks, the price per brick is lower for sets.

You are right. But there are possibilities to lower that. Collective contracts. Suppose there’s a very good MOC model and a lot of Lego train hobbyists want to make it, you can make probably a profitable deal with Lego. As customer collective strategy. This is in my country a strategy for several issues.

[legotownlinz]

6 hours ago, Amoreternum said:

It's just a niche and for a huge company like Lego too big an investment, especially when you consider the small size of the train hobby in general.

It's not a niche. Take a look at the statistics of 'owned' and 'want have' sets of the last few months at brickset.com. You'll see that the Crocodile did pretty well and is in the middle of the most/least popular sets. There are so many sets that did worse, e.g. stadions, nevertheless  Lego continues such collections with one set per year. I see the following reasons why Lego doesn't pay more attention to train fans:

• None of the designers has a passion for trains and pushes the management to release train sets.
• The current train components (tracks, wheels, motors, hubs) are not good enough for heavy 8-wide trains.
• Releasing sets that only require standard parts is more profitable than trains sets with all their special parts, despite the high demand for trains.

[Black Knight]

2 hours ago, jburgt said:

You are right. But there are possibilities to lower that. Collective contracts. Suppose there’s a very good MOC model and a lot of Lego train hobbyists want to make it, you can make probably a profitable deal with Lego. As customer collective strategy. This is in my country a strategy for several issues.

The company BlueBrixx apparently tried this -- with them as intermediary I suppose -- several years ago but it was declined by TLG. And from a business perspective rightly so: For TLG its most valuable asset is its LEGO brand value. You can simply demand a lot more money if you have LEGO printed on the box. Companies like Mattel, Shantou City Golds Precision Technology or COBI have similar brick quality, but can only demand a fraction of what TLG does. With TLG's current mindboggingly EBIT, they would be idiots to even consider such a proposal. Unless TLG is much less profitable than today, one could hope for something like that to succeed. Bummer; but that's cold, hard business.

[legotownlinz]

3 hours ago, Black Knight said:

You can simply demand a lot more money if you have LEGO printed on the box. Companies like Mattel, Shantou City Golds Precision Technology or COBI have similar brick quality, but can only demand a fraction of what TLG does.

Other companies could charge as much as Lego does if their designs would be on the same level as Lego's and not stolen from MOCers, if they had no missing parts, good instructions, a support team in Europe and so on. Brick quality is only one factor out of many.

Cobi is a good example of a company that is nearly as expensive as Lego because they are acting professionally.

[Amoreternum]

6 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

It's not a niche. Take a look at the statistics of 'owned' and 'want have' sets of the last few months at brickset.com. You'll see that the Crocodile did pretty well and is in the middle of the most/least popular sets. There are so many sets that did worse, e.g. stadions, nevertheless  Lego continues such collections with one set per year. I see the following reasons why Lego doesn't pay more attention to train fans:

• None of the designers has a passion for trains and pushes the management to release train sets.
• The current train components (tracks, wheels, motors, hubs) are not good enough for heavy 8-wide trains.
• Releasing sets that only require standard parts is more profitable than trains sets with all their special parts, despite the high demand for trains.

I see your point, but I have to disagree. While the Krokodil is pretty succesful, no doubt about that, it caters to more than just train fans that have a demand for more 8w stuff. For example, I do know that youtubers Jangbricks as well as Sariel both own a Krokodil, and the first never mentioned any interest in going more train heavy in his city while the latter never showed any interest in trains at all. The set itself is a novelty and does satisfy a lot of potential customers at the same time. The problem with the theme is just that every addition, like rolling stock or more locomotives, either have to rely on an existing layout at home, thereby making the number of potential customers smaller, or these additions have to have the appeal to be displayed without such a layout but then these have to be very, very recognisable. Sure, the demand is there, with other manufacturers pushing into it like Mould King with their newly announced 18201, Mallard and SL7, but I just don't think Lego sees the theme as something profitable - just like most other own IPs at the moment, unfortunately. Maybe the Croc changes this, would be nice to make an understatement. As jburgt put it: I'd like lego to be both, a supplier of kits as well as bricks.

 

Regarding your points, 1) could be totally possible but I think Lego would find a solution to that if they wanted to release more trains, 2) I don't see... well, since we all are using these parts just fine :D and 3) is a sensible thing. No idea how much a new piece costs in development, but using just parts that are already out there sure makes it cheaper, or at least less expensive. 

 

//I totally agree with your last post! Just what I am thinking.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Amoreternum

[legotownlinz]

2 minutes ago, Amoreternum said:

The problem with the theme is just that every addition, like rolling stock or more locomotives, either have to rely on an existing layout at home, thereby making the number of potential customers smaller, or these additions have to have the appeal to be displayed without such a layout but then these have to be very, very recognisable.

Space is always an issue, no matter what Lego theme you are collecting. Train layouts can be setup temporarily and otherwise stored efficiently. I'd say collecting stadions, ships, flowers and mosaics is much more limited regarding space compared to trains. 

9 minutes ago, Amoreternum said:

2) I don't see... well, since we all are using these parts just fine :D

Do you really run long 8-wide trains? If it's working fine, then you are certainly using lots of third party parts. 

[XG BC]

15 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

Do you really run long 8-wide trains? If it's working fine, then you are certainly using lots of third party parts. 

I have to agree on that one how is a long wagon/loco supposed to go around an r40 curve? if lego doesnt release wider radius curves there is no point for them going 8 wide either because inorder to go 8 wide you have to make everything longer and that wont look good in a curve

[Black Knight]

16 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

Other companies could charge as much as Lego does if their designs would be on the same level as Lego's and not stolen from MOCers, if they had no missing parts, good instructions, a support team in Europe and so on. Brick quality is only one factor out of many.

Cobi is a good example of a company that is nearly as expensive as Lego because they are acting professionally.

No. If those morals were a reasonable buying decision, no one would buy the Kiddicraft-clone either. They are just a posteriori rationalizations for an already existing choice. TLG is not just the biggest toy maker in the world because some other players in the market makes bad instructions. They get bought for the brand. Look around, there are so many people here that would never even consider another brand -- irrespective of quality, instructions or support. They want the LEGO brand because of the associated prestige. People with money will buy a Porsche, even though a Fiat might do what they need in a car.

COBI prices are a bad example: They have much higher manufacturing costs than TLG (prints, less scaling effects, no Chinese factory); they cater solely for a niche market were TLG is not a competitor; and foremost, their tiny manufacturing capacity was hit by this huge COVID-triggered demand.

Don't get me wrong, I very much like LEGO. But -- to get back to the original point: LEGO is neither a brick manufacturer nor a set vendor for us, it is a premium brand, that's their primary asset.

[BrickWild]

On 11/1/2021 at 10:54 PM, Withacee said:

On Instagram, it is rumoured that 10298 is a Vespa scooter that will be released in February 2022, for EUR 99,99.
In which case it does not belong in this thread :-)
Hope it's true, though. As much as I like LEGO trains, that Vespa definitely sounds interesting.

Confirmed: https://www.brickfinder.net/2021/11/05/lego-creator-expert-vespa-10298-first-details/?fbclid=IwAR33SaT6nV0nGmUavTOZ7gPVykr91Toi33hRTSy2OMtCA51q908muW8188g

[legotownlinz]

But no rumors for a train set yet...

We can safely assume that there will be no train set in 2021.

Let's hope for 2022, it should bring us at least new City trains. I wish they make great use of Powered Up and add some automation features or at least lights. Let's face it, even the Duplo trains are more sophisticated than the City trains.

 

[XG BC]

4 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

But no rumors for a train set yet...

We can safely assume that there will be no train set in 2021.

Let's hope for 2022, it should bring us at least new City trains. I wish they make great use of Powered Up and add some automation features or at least lights. Let's face it, even the Duplo trains are more sophisticated than the City trains.

 

true they are now. however i doubt lego is going to bring us any new features they just care to little about city trains

[Kalahari134]

On 11/5/2021 at 9:49 AM, XG BC said:

I have to agree on that one how is a long wagon/loco supposed to go around an r40 curve? if lego doesnt release wider radius curves there is no point for them going 8 wide either because inorder to go 8 wide you have to make everything longer and that wont look good in a curve

Why does 8w have to be longer? They're not scale models, as soon as minifigures turn up any kind of sensible proportions go out of the window. I build carriages in 8w because I want minifigures to be able to sit next to each other. 

[XG BC]

14 hours ago, Kalahari134 said:

Why does 8w have to be longer? They're not scale models, as soon as minifigures turn up any kind of sensible proportions go out of the window. I build carriages in 8w because I want minifigures to be able to sit next to each other. 

true if you build based on the minifig rather than on the prototype proportions. i build in 6 w based on the prototypes proportions and if i would go 8wide my models would have to be longer it always depends on how lego thinks. i mean for city it doesnt matter but for creator expert it would

[JopieK]

On 11/6/2021 at 6:09 PM, legotownlinz said:

But no rumors for a train set yet...

We can safely assume that there will be no train set in 2021.

Let's hope for 2022, it should bring us at least new City trains. I wish they make great use of Powered Up and add some automation features or at least lights. Let's face it, even the Duplo trains are more sophisticated than the City trains.

That is obvious indeed! Sound, a light sensor, smart motor. Hope LEGO will shrink the DUPLO PCB and allow it to fit in a 4x something size housing. But the advantage of Duplo is obviously that there is much more space!