LEGO Trains 2021

[Klaus-Dieter]

31 minutes ago, legotownlinz said:

I don't get why Lego floods the market with certain products like Creator Expert cars and a huge number of products that can be summarized as dust-catchers (botanical collection, mosaics, ...). There's nothing wrong with these sets of course, but why so many of them while neglecting other themes?

I guess the reason is that production capacity is limited and customers' money is limited, too. If TLG produced more unlicensed themes and sets, many people would buy less licensed products. But TLG still thinks that only licenses are the best - so they keep on releasing nearly only licensed themes and sets. But I really don't understand their decisions: The Crocodile sold out quickly and the Fairground sets are always very popular, too, - so why not releasing another Fairground and another Trains set this year and therefore cancel two licensed products which have a much smaller group of customers interested in?!

[1974]

46 minutes ago, legotownlinz said:

I don't get why Lego floods the market with certain products like Creator Expert cars and a huge number of products that can be summarized as dust-catchers (botanical collection, mosaics, ...). There's nothing wrong with these sets of course, but why so many of them while neglecting other themes?

It's rather simple, as Klaus-Dieter allready answered his own and your question : It's because those sell very well

The Creator cars have a proven trackrecord of revenue, the mosaics and botanical sets not so much ... yet. And it's all down to those pesky "focus groups" that seem to love stuff like this and not trains

Only thing you can do, as a train fan, is to buy the train sets available

Also, every LEGO set is a dust collector

[Amoreternum]

Well, I too am a bit bummed, a new loco or whatever we would've gotten would have been nice - but I do enjoy my bonsai and Mustang, these kinds of sets do have their audience, even though they might not be comparable to a train which gets to be driven on a track. And that audience might be even bigger. I#d love to see sales numbers for the crocodile compared to other sets just to get a perspective.

[TeriXeri]

Right now the Briclink Studgate is the only known future train set, but even if it does get crowdfunded this year, it will take a while to actually be shipped, I don't think a set like that would ever be made in mass by LEGO otherwise.

There's the large IDEAS voting round with some trains, but even there I expect those products to be moved to Bricklink rather then be picked out of the 50+ projects.

2022 City trains are very likely as the 4 year pattern has been consistent for a long time.

Edited July 17, 2021 by TeriXeri

[Vilhelm22]

Trains should get considerably more focus.  I at the moment have a slight issue regarding space - the result has been that I have the crocodile displayed right in front of the Taj Mahal, Sydney Opera House, and Tower Bridge (I know it doesn't really fit in scale-wise!).  However, on the few occasions people have been allowed inside my house in the past year with COVID (and the UK's general handling of it), the responses to the crocodile in particular have been positive.  

1 hour ago, TeriXeri said:

Right now the Briclink Studgate is the only known future train set, but even if it does get crowdfunded this year, it will take a while to actually be shipped, I don't think a set like that would ever be made in mass by LEGO otherwise.

There's the large IDEAS voting round with some trains, but even there I expect those products to be moved to Bricklink rather then be picked out of the 50+ projects.

2022 City trains are very likely as the 4 year pattern has been consistent for a long time.

I'm really hoping to get my hands on the Bricklink Designer Program Studgate model - it's beautiful and I was an early Ideas supporter of it.  I also don't expect any of the train projects to be selected unfortunately - the polar Express is probably the best bet of those.  

I'd like to see a steam train in the 2022 City sets, or just any City set.  The last ones that weren't part of fantasy themes (Hogwarts Express, Ghost Train, etc.) were the EN and the two Christmas trains - the most recent of which was 5 years ago, the least recent 15 years ago.  Before that were the My Own Train ones, and before that the 1998 9v 'Classic Train'.  really, I consider this to be the last standard city type steam train.  We need another.

At an expert level, I'm still hoping for a US steam locomotive.  The MOCs I've seen of some US steam locomotives truly blow me away - my favourites being @Cale's Blue Comet and this beautiful Southern locomotive, the latter being possibly my favourite ever, partly because I own an H0 scale version of the same locomotive.  I'd love an FEF-3, preferably in the greyhound livery, but as it would require #13 wheels to represent the enormous 80 inch drivers at 8 wide 1:48 scale, which LEGO doesn't even come close to producing (are L wheels #7 or #9?), I don't have my hopes up.  Then again, maybe not that one exactly as I'm hoping to build one myself......I have a long term aim to build all 23 of my H0 scale trains in Lego (some of them I've never seen done), but as I've so far done precisely 0 of those it'll be a long time coming.

I think it's also possible that we may one day see an expert level Hogwarts Express.  It seems like an obvious one to do at some point, and the current Hogwarts Express is one of only two 2018 HP sets not either retired or retiring at the end of this year, the other being the nanofigure Hogwarts Castle.  The Great Hall and Whomping Willow are both being discontinued this December.

I've basically lost hope for this year, but there's a lot they could do next year.

[legotownlinz]

3 hours ago, 1974 said:

Only thing you can do, as a train fan, is to buy the train sets available

There are options. Bluebrixx seem to go 8-wide now and their 8-wide models look more appealing than their rather crappy 6-wide stuff. They should switch to GoBricks parts, however, to get the quality right.

 

3 hours ago, 1974 said:

The Creator cars have a proven trackrecord of revenue, the mosaics and botanical sets not so much ... yet. And it's all down to those pesky "focus groups" that seem to love stuff like this and not trains

I bought the bonsai and the flower bouquet and maybe buy the birds of paradise as well. But nobody would have complained if there is just one flower set per year - in 2021 we got three so far.

I have built one self-designed mosaic (with the parts from the mosaic maker set). I can't imagine anybody decorating the entire apartment with Lego mosaics - within one year. One mosaic in the Lego room is enough, imho.

Edited July 17, 2021 by legotownlinz

[Duq]

Have a look around at your local model train show. Have a look in your local model/ hobby shop. Model trains sadly are a dying hobby.

Lego do their homework. That old 'only the best is good enough' has gone out the window a long time ago, it's all about profit. In general they know what sells, they know what doesn't sell. They get it spectacularly wrong sometimes though... And then they try new things. Chima and Nexo didn't work out as planned, but Brickheadz sell (but don't ask me why). Now they're trying a few flower and plant sets. If they sell they make more, if they don't you won't see them again.

You think they don't make enough trains? I also happen to like motorbikes. Do a search for non-minifig motorcycles on Brickset. Two Hobby sets in 1976 and then a Creator Expert in 2019. Creator had some but they're ugly, Technic has had some, that's it. I'm sure in another forum people are complaining that they don't make enough passenger planes, or farm tractors.

[Vilhelm22]

2 hours ago, Duq said:

Have a look around at your local model train show. Have a look in your local model/ hobby shop. Model trains sadly are a dying hobby.

Lego do their homework. That old 'only the best is good enough' has gone out the window a long time ago, it's all about profit. In general they know what sells, they know what doesn't sell. They get it spectacularly wrong sometimes though... And then they try new things. Chima and Nexo didn't work out as planned, but Brickheadz sell (but don't ask me why). Now they're trying a few flower and plant sets. If they sell they make more, if they don't you won't see them again.

You think they don't make enough trains? I also happen to like motorbikes. Do a search for non-minifig motorcycles on Brickset. Two Hobby sets in 1976 and then a Creator Expert in 2019. Creator had some but they're ugly, Technic has had some, that's it. I'm sure in another forum people are complaining that they don't make enough passenger planes, or farm tractors.

Unfortunately, this is the sad truth.  Motorbikes aren’t something I had thought about, but yes, looking back, I cannot think of many.  At the moment just the Harley and the Ducati.  And farm vehicles - oh yes I know very much.  It’s a subtheme of city I completely missed in 2009, and there have only been a few sets since, spread out across Great Vehicles over the years.

Part if the issue is, if I’m being quite honest, trains look less good than they used to in my opinion.  The passenger trains of today don’t have anything like the appeal of, for example, a beautiful Gresley A4 Pacific, or its west coast opponent, the Stanier Coronation Class.  
 

Trains as a form of transportation has also declined - though a more recent surge in the past 20 years has improved them.  Trains were for many years the main form of transportation - but this was long ago now, and the generation that remembers is now gradually shrinking in size, and with it the model railway hobby.  It doesn’t help that they’re so overpriced these days - young people have less exposure to the beauty of miniature locomotives traversing their living rooms.  The generic commuter trains simply haven’t the sleekness and appeal of those historic trains, and don’t encourage children to get in the hobby.  Who wins - A Gresley A3, or a British Rail Class 455 or the like?  Obviously the A3.  Trains aren’t what they used to be themselves.

[dr_spock]

At least if you're part of an RLUG, your group can still get LEGO train parts through their LUGBULK program and make your own trains for events.  Waiting for LUGBULK to arrive is much quicker than waiting for the next new LEGO train set. 

 

[legotownlinz]

23 hours ago, Vilhelm22 said:

Trains as a form of transportation has also declined - though a more recent surge in the past 20 years has improved them.  Trains were for many years the main form of transportation - but this was long ago now, and the generation that remembers is now gradually shrinking in size, and with it the model railway hobby.  It doesn’t help that they’re so overpriced these days - young people have less exposure to the beauty of miniature locomotives traversing their living rooms.  The generic commuter trains simply haven’t the sleekness and appeal of those historic trains, and don’t encourage children to get in the hobby.  Who wins - A Gresley A3, or a British Rail Class 455 or the like?  Obviously the A3.  Trains aren’t what they used to be themselves.

Agreed, prices for model trains are ridiculously high. If you ever thought Lego is very expensive, then you've never been in a model railroad store. This becomes even more problematic with the high risk to damage the trains, parts got thinner and fragile over the years. Models trains are no longer suitable for playing, they can only be displayed or run in a safe environment. I wouldn't allow friends to touch a model railroad, it would make me nervous that they break something. The third reason why model railroads became unpopular is because they became too complex, especially DCC is a usability disaster.

For all these reasons I switched to Lego trains. You can play with friends without being worried and you don't have to teach them how to run the trains. Of course Lego bricks can break, too, but then only a 0.25 € piece needs to be replaced and not an entire 500 € model. I like the idea that Lego trains do not look 100% accurate and are not built exactly to scale: Model railroading became too perfectionistic and would be frustrating for me because I know that I could never reach the level of landscape building shown by a few highly talented experts on the Internet. I think focusing on the fun part and following the instructions of talented Lego artists is a much better choice than building a classic model railroad that is considered old-fashioned by most of the people. And finally I like change: Gluing the tracks to a plate gets boring after a few months. The layout shall evolve over time.
 

Edited July 18, 2021 by legotownlinz

[Vilhelm22]

7 minutes ago, legotownlinz said:

Agreed, prices for model trains are ridiculously high. If you ever thought Lego is very expensive, then you've never been in a model railroad store. This becomes even more problematic with the high risk to damage the trains, parts got thinner and fragile over the years. Models trains are no longer suitable for playing, they can only be displayed or run in a safe environment. I wouldn't allow friends to touch a model railroad, it would make me nervous that they break something. The third reason why model railroads became unpopular is because they became too complex, especially DCC is a usability disaster.

For all these reasons I switched to Lego trains. You can play with friends without being worried and you don't have to teach them how to run the trains. Of course Lego bricks can break, too, but then only a 0.25 € piece needs to be replaced and not an entire 500 € model. I like the idea that Lego trains do not look 100% accurate and are not built exactly to scale: Model railroading became too perfectionistic and would be frustrating for me because I know that I could never reach the level of landscape building shown by a few highly talented experts on the Internet. I think focusing on the fun part and following the instructions of talented Lego artists is a much better choice than building a classic model railroad that is considered old-fashioned by most of the people. And finally I like change: Gluing the tracks to a plate gets boring after a few months. The layout shall evolve over time.
 

All very good points.  I have 23 inherited H0 scale trains, the oldest being die cast metal and the newest ones plastic.  The metal ones are far superior, and sell for higher prices.  I haven't bought anything for myself to add to this though, and haven't even tried landscaping - the prices are too high.  That and the fact that only two British locomotives have ever been produced in H0 scale.  Britain wanted to be different at the Empire's peak, in 1900 or so, with the result that they are about the only country where H0 isn't the most popular scale.  

Like you, I find LEGO is a far more pleasurable scale to work in, and is far more easily reparable.  6 of my H0 trains don't work - but 40-50 years on it's not easy to find parts...  Without really wanting to let go of my H0 ones, I'm building them in LEGO.  It's also the case that in LEGO you aren't restricted to the locomotives produced by the company - you can have whatever locomotive you want! An L-Gauge train has, at the top end, an even more pleasurable response as well.  It's not 'Wow - I can't believe the amount of detail in such a tiny model' but instead 'Wow - I can't believe that's made out of LEGO!' - a response that shows your skill, not somebody else's.  The satisfaction from that is far greater.

[Vilhelm22]

There are now 4 train sets that are set to be retired at the end of 2021/early 2022.  As well as the City trains on their 4 year cycle, the Crocodile is set to be retired after only 18 months on the market. However, Stonewars.de specifically states that of the D2Cs set to be retired, this and Pirates of Barracuda Bay are the most likely candidates for extension (the Saturn V was set to retire and has been extended so it's not impossible).  The fourth set is the Disney Train and Station, whilst the castle is still being sold - it didn't sell particularly well and received a lot of complaints around here I seem to remember (though it was 2019 and I haven't bought it myself).  As a result it was heavily discounted during the Black Friday 2019 sales, and is therefore being discontinued now.

Not a specific train set, but the current City town square set (which includes that decidedly average tram) with its ridiculous price is being discontinued as well - according to Stonewars.de it is on their list of D2Cs retiring the worst selling of the lot and a well deserved retirement which is pretty damning.

I can't remember from previous years - was there a short gap or short overlap between the city train sets?  

[Duq]

According to Brickset the 2014 train sets were removed from shop at home two weeks before the 2018 sets appeared, so no overlap.

Looking at that list, the 2010 station was retired after 3 1/2 years, a few months before the trains. The 2014 station was only sold for 2 1/2 years and in 2018 there wasn't even a station released. The last level crossing was in 2010, the extra freight train we saw in 2011 and 2015 wasn't repeated in 2019... I wonder if we'll ever see anything more in City Trains than 2 trains every four years.

[Vilhelm22]

53 minutes ago, Duq said:

According to Brickset the 2014 train sets were removed from shop at home two weeks before the 2018 sets appeared, so no overlap.

Looking at that list, the 2010 station was retired after 3 1/2 years, a few months before the trains. The 2014 station was only sold for 2 1/2 years and in 2018 there wasn't even a station released. The last level crossing was in 2010, the extra freight train we saw in 2011 and 2015 wasn't repeated in 2019... I wonder if we'll ever see anything more in City Trains than 2 trains every four years.

The one thing I will say is that no set was ever numbered 60199 - evidence that a station was planned for 2018 and cancelled at the last minute.

[*thomas*]

On 7/17/2021 at 8:19 PM, Duq said:

You think they don't make enough trains? I also happen to like motorbikes. Do a search for non-minifig motorcycles on Brickset. Two Hobby sets in 1976 and then a Creator Expert in 2019. Creator had some but they're ugly, Technic has had some, that's it. I'm sure in another forum people are complaining that they don't make enough passenger planes, or farm tractors.

You can't compare trains to 'motorcycles'. Trains have been a part of LEGOs history since the beginning, motorcycles did/do not.
 

[Matt Dawson]

@Duq bear in mind we would've still had the Hidden Side train and the Hogwarts Express in 2019 (the Winter Village train would've ended it's cycle by then), which are still "trains" and ergo competition. Plus the "bonus" train the following year was often a LEGO or retailer exclusive and didn't sell that well as far as I can gather - certainly the loss of TRU would've soured LEGO's appetite to shelf warmers.

@Vilhelm22 LEGO set number allocation is a bit ropey; 60199 just happens to be a gap, but conveniently next to the other trains.

[Stuartn]

On 8/8/2021 at 6:10 AM, Vilhelm22 said:

Not a specific train set, but the current City town square set (which includes that decidedly average tram) with its ridiculous price is being discontinued as well - according to Stonewars.de it is on their list of D2Cs retiring the worst selling of the lot and a well deserved retirement which is pretty damning.

Its been about $100+ off in a lot of places here, I think the extreme price was just too much, for not a very attractive set (as opposed to the last four, $30-$100 cheaper town plan sets, and the much cheaper Donut Shop and Ski Resort), I hope it makes Lego realise they need to reduce prices

Edited August 11, 2021 by Stuartn

[M_slug357]

1 hour ago, Stuartn said:

…I hope it makes Lego realise they need to reduce prices

HahahahaHahahaha

I’ll drink to that!!

[Vilhelm22]

I’ve just had a thought.

LEGO currently has four trains on the market that either include or can be upgraded with Powered Up:

Disney Train & Station

Crocodile Locomotive 

Passenger Train 

Cargo Train

According to rumours for the first two plus logic for the others, in 9 months all these will have been retired.

Is it possible the system is changing again?  There’s been a lot of criticism and no new sets have been made that use the app since the crocodile, released July 1st 2020.  Only 7 sets have used the app total - has it been deemed a total failure?

Edited September 11, 2021 by Vilhelm22

[Black Knight]

1 hour ago, Vilhelm22 said:

Is it possible the system is changing again?  There’s been a lot of criticism and no new sets have been made that use the app since the crocodile, released July 1st 2020.  Only 7 sets have used the app total - has it been deemed a total failure?

Yes, I think for TLG, trains are "a total failure" -- in terms of how much revenue they generate in comparison with their other products. Will they retire it entirely? Eventually yes; but once you let go completely, it is very hard to bring back, so they might drag it on.

The market for "LEGO" trains is meanwhile in the hands of third parties: From Big Ben Bricks over FX Bricks, TrixBrix, BrickTracks to BlueBrixx and several Chinese companies. So TLG does have a decent amount of competition in this market segment, making it even less interesting for them. I think they will continue to push licensed products as those have the highest margins and are hardest to compete against -- unlike generic themes like pirates, technic, space or trains. TLGs legal protection has expired for basically everything but minifigures, so the only thing they have left to keep their 30% revenue is Avengers, Batman and Star Wars. Unless some brand gets very popular that builds massively on trains (think Thomas the Train), TLG will not push trains.

[Tcm0]

4 hours ago, Vilhelm22 said:

I’ve just had a thought.

LEGO currently has four trains on the market that either include or can be upgraded with Powered Up:

Disney Train & Station

Crocodile Locomotive 

Passenger Train 

Cargo Train

According to rumours for the first two plus logic for the others, in 9 months all these will have been retired.

Is it possible the system is changing again?  There’s been a lot of criticism and no new sets have been made that use the app since the crocodile, released July 1st 2020.  Only 7 sets have used the app total - has it been deemed a total failure?

I think that you have to keep the delay in mind. They need a bit of time to develop a set.
We got the disney train. I think that it didn't sell well because it's very expensive and a huge factor of the price is the station. Also, no remote.

But they already had the crocodile in the pipeline so that came out (it's also part of a series of sets: creator expert trains, which the disney train isn't). I think that the crocodile sold well - it was sold out constantly during the first months here in europe.

Maybe they planned to stop production because the disney train didn't sell well. I don't think that they will discontinue it yet. If they will, it will be because some parts aren't available anymore or something like that. Don' take the lists too seriously. I think that the ideas tree house was set to be discontinued twice and it isn't even on the list for this year.

Concerning the city trains: I'm pretty sure that they sell as expected. Sometimes the prices drop low for events but the average price is okay. Who is against the new system? The set includes a remote and bluetooth is clearly better than IR.
They won't change the system. They commited on powered up and are constantly releasing new sets with the plug. The Technic CAT, the Mercedes, the Mindstorms, SPIKE Essential etc. Idk why we didn't get more powered up sets. Maybe the team is busy with redesigning the coding canvas.
One thing that I'm not sure is if the price calculation for the next sets works. The current city trains seem to be sold below the "powered up value". The new sets might get more expensive, supported by the rising costs of chips and all the other materials. High prices might shrink the market (as they did with the disney train).

My opinion: the crocodile will stay and the city trains will stay or will be replaced next year. I'm not sure about the disney train. That might get discontinued.

[jus1973]

18 hours ago, Tcm0 said:

One thing that I'm not sure is if the price calculation for the next sets works. The current city trains seem to be sold below the "powered up value". The new sets might get more expensive, supported by the rising costs of chips and all the other materials. High prices might shrink the market (as they did with the disney train).

When you consider that the train series has a specific motor in it, most of the time, its even more surprising that they don’t cost more.  

Perhaps TLG are going to try to move away from this, and try to make the more common motors fit, which will require a complete redesign of locomotives at least.  I’d like to see a steam loco driven passenger set, as i think this would sell well, to both adults and children.  The current and previous passenger sets, with modern appearances don’t offer much play value.  

[Tcm0]

1 minute ago, jus1973 said:

Perhaps TLG are going to try to move away from this, and try to make the more common motors fit, which will require a complete redesign of locomotives at least.  I’d like to see a steam loco driven passenger set, as i think this would sell well, to both adults and children.  The current and previous passenger sets, with modern appearances don’t offer much play value.  

But the other motors are more expensive because they contain rotation sensors. I'm pretty sure that they will stick to the train motors.

I don't like the passenger sets either but you can play that people are entering and leaving the train etc. Also, the parents stand in front of the sets and think "my child wanted to get a train... this one is much cheaper. I'll get this one" (at least that's what my father did back then :D).

[zephyr1934]

I doubt lego trains will disappear anytime in the near future. But I also doubt they will emerge much further from the shadows. New city trains every 3 or so years that don't impress most AFOLs, and the occasional licensed train when they can pull it off. With the minimization of specialized parts and a 3 yr renewal cycle I suspect the city trains make enough to continue. Lego realizes that (1) the city trains are a parts pack for AFOL's, (2) each AFOL train is potentially $600-$2000 worth of set sales in terms of parts for the train and heaven knows how much for the background scenery, and (3) trains remain one of the anchors of AFOL displays, being among the easiest way to bring in motion and guide visitors around a mostly static scene.

[Duq]

City Trains are on a pretty reliable 4yr cycle: 2006, 2010, 2014, 2018, so due again next year. https://brickset.com/sets/theme-City/subtheme-Trains

The theme is slowly being stripped though. The last level crossing was in 2010 and the 2018 'wave' was the first to not include a station.