LEGO Trains 2021

[legotownlinz]

21 hours ago, Selander said:

😉👌👍 ...46-50 studs long, with ball bearings and reasonably priced at 29,99 EUR /each 😁

Ball bearings are not necessary, but metal axles would be nice. They are still in production.

 

All Creator Expert train sets had an engine and wagons, the Crocodile is the only exception. It is likely that the designer developed an entire train but for some reasons only the Crocodile was released as a set, maybe to keep the costs down and to make it more attractive as a display set with the display stand instead of coaches. The Crocodile set was a success and well received, so Lego could decide to release the wagons, too. Some buyers of the Crocodile would not buy wagons, but those who do buy at least three, so a wagon set could sell as well as the engine.

 

 

[Vilhelm22]

1 hour ago, legotownlinz said:

All Creator Expert train sets had an engine and wagons, the Crocodile is the only exception. It is likely that the designer developed an entire train but for some reasons only the Crocodile was released as a set, maybe to keep the costs down and to make it more attractive as a display set with the display stand instead of coaches. The Crocodile set was a success and well received, so Lego could decide to release the wagons, too. Some buyers of the Crocodile would not buy wagons, but those who do buy at least three, so a wagon set could sell as well as the engine.

 

 

^ This.  I also thing that its success will make chances of another expert train in the near future likely rather than the 7 year gap last time.  I unfortunately at this point do not expect one until 2022, but after all there was a 2 year gap between EN/Maersk and Maersk/HE...

I also think we will eventually get an expert style Hogwarts Express...

[Tcm0]

27 minutes ago, Vilhelm22 said:

^ This.  I also thing that its success will make chances of another expert train in the near future likely rather than the 7 year gap last time.  I unfortunately at this point do not expect one until 2022, but after all there was a 2 year gap between EN/Maersk and Maersk/HE...

I also think we will eventually get an expert style Hogwarts Express...

It wasn't a 7 year gap. The horizon express came in 2013 and the winter holiday train in 2016, so only 3 and 4 years. Yeah I know that the community doesn't see the winter holiday train as creator expert but it was labeled as that so it counted as one for lego.

[Vilhelm22]

2 hours ago, Tcm0 said:

It wasn't a 7 year gap. The horizon express came in 2013 and the winter holiday train in 2016, so only 3 and 4 years. Yeah I know that the community doesn't see the winter holiday train as creator expert but it was labeled as that so it counted as one for lego.

True, but as you say it’s it’s own thing.  Look at it this way:  is the winter holiday train a winter village set OR a train if you had to choose one.  Vast majority would say winter village I reckon.  

I’m not saying you’re wrong but it’s considered it’s own thing really and not part of the expert trains line.  If you look on Brickset it’s under Winter Village not Trains.

[legotownlinz]

I don't think that the history is helpful to predict future 18+ train sets. Too much has changed in the recent years regarding the number of Creator Expert / 18+ sets. There is so much redundancy in other themes (mosaics, botanical collection, ...) to make a train set per year realistic. The question is, was the Crocodile above or below Lego's expectations? If it was above, what kind of train set will be next, an addon set for the crocodile or a new engine? There are a few reasons for an addon set:

• A wagon was probably designed together with the Crocodile so that time-to-market is shorter than developing something completely new.
• Customer who run the Crocodile on their layout rather need wagons than another engine. 

However, the time slot for an addon set is limited, it should be on the market together with the main set. If we get wagons for the Crocodile, we get it this year or never.
 

Some thoughts on different aspects of Lego trains: What can we expect from Lego's train offerings in the next few years. I see several fields of improvement:

• Tracks: To stand out from the competition and make the tracks look more appealing, Lego should introduce dual-molded tracks.
• Switches: A redesign is overdue. Firstly, Lego should copy the switch designs from the competition and make the reverse curve a separate detachable part. Secondly, the lever should be replaced by a rotating knob like in the BrickTracks design. You hurt yourself when stepping on the current lever design and the levers often break. It also helps with automation. Imho, the current Lego switches neither fulfill Lego's quality nor safety standards.
• Trains: 7-wide also for City trains. Cars got bigger from 4 to 6-wide, trains didn't.
   

Edited June 13, 2021 by legotownlinz

[Kallego]

According to promobricks 10279 is of the list too. They report 10279 will be a new VW T2 bus.

Maybe this is good news. If Lego is willing to release multiple cars per year, they should be able to release one train per year. Or it's just wishful thinking :-)

[R0Sch]

14 hours ago, Kallego said:

According to promobricks 10279 is of the list too. They report 10279 will be a new VW T2 bus.

Maybe this is good news. If Lego is willing to release multiple cars per year, they should be able to release one train per year. Or it's just wishful thinking :-)

It's actually bad news. Because then all the set numbers for this year are taken up and none will be a train. Why does TLG release 2 Creator Expert cars this year and no train? Because VW and Porsche are big cash cows and trains are just a niche thing in TLG's eyes. As others also mentioned, not releasing some waggons with the Crocodile in the same year, let alone this year is another sign that trains are way down on the priority list. LEGO is all about licenses now and an old train is not trending in the current market research. I think the Croc was constantly sold out because of few production quantaties and resellers buying them up, and not because of popularity, or else we would have seen another set this year for sure.

[zephyr1934]

23 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

The question is, was the Crocodile above or below Lego's expectations? If it was above, what kind of train set will be next, an addon set for the crocodile or a new engine? There are a few reasons for an addon set:

• A wagon was probably designed together with the Crocodile so that time-to-market is shorter than developing something completely new.
• Customer who run the Crocodile on their layout rather need wagons than another engine. 

However, the time slot for an addon set is limited, it should be on the market together with the main set. If we get wagons for the Crocodile, we get it this year or never.

The Super Chief came out like that- the limited edition locomotive, then 6 months later the cars came out and at some point the non-limited edition of the locomotive. (but probably anyone who had anything to do with the Super Chief is long gone)

 

23 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

Some thoughts on different aspects of Lego trains: What can we expect from Lego's train offerings in the next few years. I see several fields of improvement:

• Tracks: To stand out from the competition and make the tracks look more appealing, Lego should introduce dual-molded tracks.
• Switches: A redesign is overdue. Firstly, Lego should copy the switch designs from the competition and make the reverse curve a separate detachable part. Secondly, the lever should be replaced by a rotating knob like in the BrickTracks design. You hurt yourself when stepping on the current lever design and the levers often break. It also helps with automation. Imho, the current Lego switches neither fulfill Lego's quality nor safety standards.
• Trains: 7-wide also for City trains. Cars got bigger from 4 to 6-wide, trains didn't.

I'm sure they view the third party suppliers as the answer to the first two items (and they still win because of all the bricks that then get used to build the trains and scenery). As for they city trains, I suspect Lego views them as loss leaders- they make a profit, but not nearly the profit of an all plastic set. So making them 16% wider is of little benefit (not to mention the fact that the city trains already look stumpy at 6 wide) since it would increase cost and do little to increase sales. They already have the six wide baseplates and windscreens, etc. for the trains, they kids do not complain about the width, those probably will not change.

[Tcm0]

I don't think that we will see single cars for the crocodile. It's primarily a "display" model that looks great by itself. Additional cars don't really fit into that. Also, lego wasn't successful when they sold individual cars (there was a big pack with the santa fe + cars that was highly reduced in the past).

lego probably wanted to check how successful the crocodile is first (and it was successful I think... at least it was sold out for months). Development of a new set takes too long to release something directly after it. But I'm sure that we'll see new locos and maybe cars at some point in the future.

[emm]

What we also have to remember is that when the crocodile set was released a-lot of countries where in lock down or had tight restrictions.

Demand far outstripped supply same as with hornby but now as restrictions are lifted the amount of lego appearing on the market has increased. You can pick up second hang crocs for 50 quid, boxed.

I am a huge fan of trains but other companies now are offering so much more and they offer trains to the 8 wide adult market.

Add to this the wagon will never be produced as a single item. It takes up shelf space and only train fans will buy it. Once they have bought them then sales die.

As a child can choose a train add on or a new marvel set. 9/10 the child will choose marvel. As for wagons you need a train set. Its play is limited. Furthermore a retailer will not use shelf space for a wagon that might sell against a city or marvel.

3D printing companies are now going to injection moulding. Lego know that by doing nothing these companies fill a gap.

Lego will never produce a range as sadly the train market is a niche and will always remain that way. Sadly trains are not what the majority of older kids want. Its branded stuff. Look at harry potter / marvel / disney.

And lastly lego know that by restricting the releases or drip feeding people will buy what ever they release in droves. Think of the amount people who bought to of the new express train….Lego laughing to the bank.

And Lego know that their custom base is loyal and unlike other communities will not venture to other brands. They have the same hold over there customers like apple does.

I hope i am wrong but from a business point, trains just do not perform against the other ranges.

Edited June 18, 2021 by emm

[Lyichir]

On 6/14/2021 at 4:58 AM, R0Sch said:

It's actually bad news. Because then all the set numbers for this year are taken up and none will be a train. Why does TLG release 2 Creator Expert cars this year and no train? Because VW and Porsche are big cash cows and trains are just a niche thing in TLG's eyes. As others also mentioned, not releasing some waggons with the Crocodile in the same year, let alone this year is another sign that trains are way down on the priority list. LEGO is all about licenses now and an old train is not trending in the current market research. I think the Croc was constantly sold out because of few production quantaties and resellers buying them up, and not because of popularity, or else we would have seen another set this year for sure.

I don't think it has anything to do with the Crocodile not selling well... probably more just that Lego doesn't want to risk oversaturating the market. Even in the heyday of Creator Expert trains (from the Holiday Train in 2006 to the Horizon Express in 2013), a new one only came out at most every two years. And clearly even that release pattern wasn't sustainable given that after the Horizon Express came out it wasn't until last year that we got another. Lego may well have other train sets like that in the pipeline, but expecting them to release year after year like the Winter Village and Modular Building sets probably isn't realistic.

On a completely different note, a part of me really wants to see a train in the Monkie Kid theme. It probably wouldn't be something that'd satisfy fans of realistic trains (outside of potentially parts like the container walls in new colors), but I feel like a cargo train HQ would fit right in with the container ship HQ from the first year or the quadcopter from this year. Might be something I'd have to MOC, though—next year's story seems to be taking an actual "Journey to the West" and I doubt that adventure will remain constrained to rail lines.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Lyichir

[TeriXeri]

2022 probably will have a City Train, perhaps with the Hidden Side Train Ramp , as almost all City Cargo trains had a switch track included, and a dead end would be perfect for kids to load their train on.

Kind of weird to have that piece in only 1 set :

 

 

1 hour ago, Lyichir said:

On a completely different note, a part of me really wants to see a train in the Monkie Kid theme. It probably wouldn't be something that'd satisfy fans of realistic trains (outside of potentially parts like the container walls in new colors), but I feel like a cargo train HQ would fit right in with the container ship HQ from the first year or the quadcopter from this year.

A Monkie Kid train wouldn't be that weird, considering Hidden Side had a "ghost train" and Monkie Kid seems to follow a somewhat similar pattern of Hidden Side in terms of how the theme and sets are built up. (minus the Augmented Reality which went to Vidyo)

 

I personally would love to see a 3-in-1 Train set, with focus on the train build, and few to no side builds, and then don't include electronics to keep the price down.

I didn't have many trains , but the displayed alternate builds (in the manual+box) to the 1996 Cargo Railway https://letsbuilditagain.com/instructions/4559/ were almost on par if not better then the main build depending if you wanted a Steam loc, or Rail-Layer vehicle, which means a 3-in-1 could potentially work.

Maybe it could even be a Space themed train (or Theme Park Space , since Creator 3in1 does make fairground sets.)

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by TeriXeri

[Stuartn]

8 hours ago, Lyichir said:

On a completely different note, a part of me really wants to see a train in the Monkie Kid theme. It probably wouldn't be something that'd satisfy fans of realistic trains (outside of potentially parts like the container walls in new colors), but I feel like a cargo train HQ would fit right in with the container ship HQ from the first year or the quadcopter from this year.

I don't think realistic train fans would mind it that much. Since we're not really getting anything new in the train area it couldn't be detrimental to train sets. With the exception of the Crocodile locomotive, 'realistic' trains haven't been available since 2013 (when they were released on a two-year cycle), so we've had to put up with city trains (which aren't that realistic) and the occasional HP and Hidden side trains, which aren't exactly realistic anyway and only offer good parts, so I would like a Monkie kid train. The only thing I know of that theme is that the sets are really big and not that badly priced, so I would appreciate a set in that theme, provided it has good parts and preferrably powered up functions.

[zephyr1934]

16 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

I personally would love to see a 3-in-1 Train set, with focus on the train build, and few to no side builds, and then don't include electronics to keep the price down.

Lego has needed to do that for years... sigh. A 3-in-1 could overcome so many of the hurdles faced by normal train sets, e.g., the regional nature of different designs, the need for more than one type of car in a realistic train, etc.

7 hours ago, Stuartn said:

I don't think realistic train fans would mind it that much.  ... I would appreciate a set in that theme, provided it has good parts and preferrably powered up functions.

Exactly that, any set with good train parts would be welcome even if it isn't a realistic train

[Tcm0]

1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

Lego has needed to do that for years... sigh. A 3-in-1 could overcome so many of the hurdles faced by normal train sets, e.g., the regional nature of different designs, the need for more than one type of car in a realistic train, etc.

They kinda did that with the old crocodile from 2007.

17 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Kind of weird to have that piece in only 1 set :

Idk. The double switch track was made for just one set, too (and was discontinued pretty fast).

[Aanchir]

On 6/18/2021 at 5:34 PM, TeriXeri said:

I personally would love to see a 3-in-1 Train set, with focus on the train build, and few to no side builds, and then don't include electronics to keep the price down.

I could definitely picture a 3-in-1 train being a possibility. I've seen some people claim that it's unlikely since trains require specialized pieces for stuff like their wheels and tracks, but the same can be said for roller coasters, and that didn't prevent LEGO from releasing the 3-in-1 Pirate Roller Coaster set.

I'm honestly still surprised there haven't been any 4+ train sets, especially since the new train wheels and wheel bearings were introduced. I feel like some 4+ push-powered trains would be great for kids on the tail end of the age range that enjoys stuff like Brio trains or Thomas the Tank Engine, and would also provide an entry point to help those kids start enjoying System train building and layout design even before they're ready for bigger City train sets with electric motors. Perhaps we'll finally see a set like that released alongside the next wave of City trains.

[TeriXeri]

26 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

I could definitely picture a 3-in-1 train being a possibility. I've seen some people claim that it's unlikely since trains require specialized pieces for stuff like their wheels and tracks, but the same can be said for roller coasters, and that didn't prevent LEGO from releasing the 3-in-1 Pirate Roller Coaster set.

Looking at the 90s 9v train instructions , and all of them have at least 1-2 alternates pictured, and both the 1996 trains change to a proper steam locomotive that wouldn't look out of place next to the 1998 Classic Trrain.

Beside the Steam train builds there's more.

4565: Freight and Crane Railway has 2 entirely different cargo yard builds as well with 2 different trains, trucks and cranes basicly looks like a 4-in-1 from suggested builds.

https://letsbuilditagain.com/instructions/4565/

4559: Cargo Railway has a different truck and a rail laying diesel-looking train as well.

https://letsbuilditagain.com/instructions/4559/

I think a lot would be possible with a 1000+ piece set.

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by TeriXeri

[TeriXeri]

"official" alternate suggestions from 4565 and 4559.

Edited June 21, 2021 by TeriXeri

[AlecDGeneric]

13 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Looking at the 90s 9v train instructions , and all of them have at least 1-2 alternates pictured,

Not just that, I own 4563, 4560 and 4551 (the latter retrofitted with Pup), and half of their instructions are for an alternate build. And looking online that was also the case for 4564 and 4558. Don't know why they dropped that for 4565 and 4559 since 4560 came out after them.

[Dav1d]

I was told that the reason they stopped showing alternative models on the box is that they kept on disappointing customers who phoned up asking for the instructions for the alternative models. They decided it was better not to show them. A lot of work goes into creating instructions. It is a pity, as they were there for inspiration. 

[zephyr1934]

5 minutes ago, Dav1d said:

I was told that the reason they stopped showing alternative models on the box is that they kept on disappointing customers who phoned up asking for the instructions for the alternative models. They decided it was better not to show them. A lot of work goes into creating instructions. It is a pity, as they were there for inspiration. 

That was the day Lego went from selling open world building sets like Erector to dedicated model kits like Airfix. But the 3 in 1 sets are an homage to the days of old. Makes total sense from a business standpoint, but aspiring to those inspirational models were the first steps of many of us to building our own creations

[Djmojo]

Rumor has it that the ideas reveals will be tomorow. So fingers crossed for something train related

[zephyr1934]

On 6/19/2021 at 11:19 AM, Tcm0 said:

They kinda did that with the old crocodile from 2007.

...

Idk. The double switch track was made for just one set, too (and was discontinued pretty fast).

The Hobby train set was an experiment doomed by so many things: mostly common colors, all rare parts in the set appeared simultaneously in the online PaB so no need to buy the set for the parts you wanted, TOO many designs so the parts palette could not be focused on making more than one build great (what's there is great for the parts availability, but the designers had a very constrained set of parts to work with), and of course the inclusion of loose magnets that cut the production run short.

The double switch track was similarly doomed, it was available for at least 2 years at a time when the RC trains (pre-PF) required a 6x34 baseplate (or thereabouts) for the integrated battery box with protrusions on the outside all of which limited what could be built, the RC motor traction bands slipped on the wheels so you could only pull 2 cars, 9v trains were still in production for most of the time window the switches were on sale so the target audience of AFOLs were mostly not interested in plastic track at the time, and the stupid cost savings of tying both tracks to the same switch lever.

[TeriXeri]

56 minutes ago, Djmojo said:

Rumor has it that the ideas reveals will be tomorow. So fingers crossed for something train related

No train in the upcoming 25 entry review tomorrow, but the huge 57 entry IDEAS review later  (Fall 2021) has a Canada Train , Train Bookends , Polar Express .

Edited June 21, 2021 by TeriXeri

[Djmojo]

On 6/21/2021 at 5:03 PM, TeriXeri said:

No train in the upcoming 25 entry review tomorrow, but the huge 57 entry IDEAS review later  (Fall 2021) has a Canada Train , Train Bookends , Polar Express .

Ah yes, my bad!