LEGO Trains 2021

[Rustie86]

On 12/8/2020 at 12:25 PM, M_slug357 said:

Speculation Questions:

- Do you think we’ll see any new train-specific elements released next year?

- If possible, what would be a useful train-specific element you’d like to see made?

- If instead of a new element, what element would you like to see in a new color?

I'd like TLG to bring back train windows! As it stands, the glass for them is prohibitively expensive for me to use on everything. Failing that, I'd accept Window 1 x 3 x 3 Flat Front in white - I could reasonably substitute it on my custom passenger cars and reuse the train windows & glass for other projects. 

[Electricsteam]

I hope what ever shows up is better than the mess than the Croc. I mean it looks pretty but it the running problems and the large gap be much to be desired.      I might just be jaded by the size and grandeur of the Apollo rocket but it just seemed overpriced for the small size.  100$ without track... without power.... Just disappointing.

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Electricsteam

[legotownlinz]

On 12/14/2020 at 1:12 AM, Rustie86 said:

I'd like TLG to bring back train windows! As it stands, the glass for them is prohibitively expensive for me to use on everything. Failing that, I'd accept Window 1 x 3 x 3 Flat Front in white - I could reasonably substitute it on my custom passenger cars and reuse the train windows & glass for other projects. 

Take a look here. The train window frames are available in several colors, too.

[Phil B]

23 minutes ago, legotownlinz said:

Take a look here. The train window frames are available in several colors, too.

Can we stop with the quiet introduction of all these clone brands into a LEGO forum? Thanks.

[legotownlinz]

Just now, Phil B said:

Can we stop with the quiet introduction of all these clone brands into a LEGO forum? Thanks.

No.

[Amoreternum]

I think parts and products from brands and companies such as Bluebrixx should be something one should consider for himself instead of being offered as the outright alternative to the real deal. Not sure how to put what I think into the right words, but I hope you know what I mean.

[Thai bricks]

So, wide radius curves from an alternate brand are ok, but windows in a colour Lego decided not to make are not? That's confusing.

[dtomsen]

 

2 hours ago, Amoreternum said:

I think parts and products from brands and companies such as Bluebrixx should be something one should consider for himself instead of being offered as the outright alternative to the real deal. Not sure how to put what I think into the right words, but I hope you know what I mean.

What if that real deal hasn't been produced by LEGO in a very long time and is only available for loads of money on BrickLink (or other secondhand markets) like the aforementioned train windows?

Most 3rd party products are seen as enhancing the Lego experience and thus allowed to be discussed in most LEGO communities. Some parts, components and even sets from clone brands now exist in the same space. Why the double standards?

Some we are allowed to talk about, some we should keep to ourselves.

If we want a 100% pure LEGO train forum, everything else should be bannned, no exception.That means no BrickTracks, TrixBrix, BuWizz, BrickTrainDepot, Elegant Bricks, LightMyBricks, SBrick, FX Brick, BMR and so on and on.

But that would definitely diminish our hobby in regard to advanced train modelling.

So let common sense prevail and let us all keep our minds open - nobody is saying buy this or that brand instead of LEGO 

Edited December 16, 2020 by dtomsen

[JopieK]

2 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

No.

Well, you made the topic about "LEGO Trains 2021", so please also keep it hat way.

There is obviously a thin line between clones and 'additions'. But the people that are shamelessly cloning TLG molds and just put some other color granulate in are not what we want here. We are a TLG-recognized fan site, so we like to keep it that way. Apart from that, please stay on topic :)

[Phil B]

It's real simple for me: If the company focuses solely on Enhancing the LEGO experience, and makes complimentary products, they are fair game. If the company competes with LEGO (even if they make some parts that are useful and not made by LEGO) then they are not OK to be discussed here. 

And wrt old parts - that is part of the hobby. You either fork over the money to buy those rare parts or you change your design to eliminate the rare parts. 

[dtomsen]

 

32 minutes ago, Phil B said:

It's real simple for me: If the company focuses solely on Enhancing the LEGO experience, and makes complimentary products, they are fair game. If the company competes with LEGO (even if they make some parts that are useful and not made by LEGO) then they are not OK to be discussed here. 

And wrt old parts - that is part of the hobby. You either fork over the money to buy those rare parts or you change your design to eliminate the rare parts. 

Most of the brands mentioned before compete with LEGO ?

 

Edit  No more derailing from me = back on topic ?

Edited December 16, 2020 by dtomsen

[Amoreternum]

32 minutes ago, dtomsen said:

 

What if that real deal hasn't been produced by LEGO in a very long time and is only available for loads of money on BrickLink (or other secondhand markets) like the aforementioned trains windows?

Most 3rd party products are seen as enhancing the Lego experience and thus allowed to be discussed in most LEGO communities. Some parts, components and even sets from clone brands now exist in the same space. Why the double standards?

Some we are allowed to talk about, some we should keep to ourselves.

If we want a 100% pure LEGO train forum, everything else should be bannned, no exception.That means no BrickTracks, TrixBrix, BuWizz, BrickTrainDepot, Elegant Bricks, LightMyBricks, SBrick, FX Brick, BMR and so on and on.

But that would definitely diminish our hobby in regard to advanced train modelling.

So let common sense prevail and let us all keep our minds open - nobody is saying buy this or that brand instead of LEGO 

Well, I do agree that's a difficult question, one I found an answer for but that does not mean somebody else is not allowed to think differently, I totally respect that. Especially in the trains section it's a very big grey area, but I would not go as far as to call double standards on that one - I do own a bit of track from Trixbrix and intend to buy more, from other suppliers of third party track as well, I use BigBenBricks wheels and an SBrick. Lego does not offer what I get from them, or did not offer it at the time I bought the product (although I don't think the SBrick and PoweredUp can really be compared, but let's stick to the Bluetooth aspect of that).

i just think that we should somewhat differentiate - I can totally understand someone buying a product that Lego offers, but for horrendous prices from a different manufacturer, I just would not do it. Maybe, not yet. I'm certainly not a purist, but I can't bring myself to thinking about chinese companies (especially the ones ripping AFOLs off) and companies working with them, like BlueBrixx does in the same way I think about most of the companies you mentioned. Somehow, there's quite a difference to me, maybe it's in regards of profit versus the will to make the hobby better, but I'm totally open for discussion. Maybe my mindset is just to narrow? No problem admitting that, should it be the case.

[Aanchir]

On 12/15/2020 at 11:58 AM, Electricsteam said:

I hope what ever shows up is better than the mess than the Croc. I mean it looks pretty but it the running problems and the large gap be much to be desired.      I might just be jaded by the size and grandeur of the Apollo rocket but it just seemed overpriced for the small size.  100$ without track... without power.... Just disappointing.

The Emerald Night, Maersk Train, and Horizon Express were ALSO $100 (or more) without tracks or power. After all, all three of them (and the Crocodile Locomotive) had over 1000 pieces. think you may need to revise your expectations for train pricing, especially at a Creator Expert/18+ building level.

It's not as though LEGO train sets have ever been cheap! Even https://brickset.com/sets/118-3/ back in 1969 cost the equivalent of over $140 at the current value of the US dollar!

And don't forget, part of why the Saturn V was able to be as large as it was for just $120 is that it has a very repetitive inventory, with massive quantities of fairly basic parts. Train models tend to have much more varied textures, colors, and details, rather than smooth surfaces that can be built from hundreds of identical pieces in common colors.

On 12/13/2020 at 7:12 PM, Rustie86 said:

I'd like TLG to bring back train windows! As it stands, the glass for them is prohibitively expensive for me to use on everything. Failing that, I'd accept Window 1 x 3 x 3 Flat Front in white - I could reasonably substitute it on my custom passenger cars and reuse the train windows & glass for other projects. 

I would love for the 1x3x3 window frames to show up in more colors! I don't expect LEGO to bring back the old train windows anytime soon, though, since they have become really committed to standardizing their window and door pieces (especially compared to the 90s when they had so many window pieces that weren't compatible with one another despite being the same height and width).

The closest I think we could realistically expect would probably be a window panel with the same rounded corners, but designed to fit existing window pane elements (like how 60032, 60592, 61345, 90195, and the new 3x3x2 curved window mentioned on the previous page can all use any of the current 1x2x2 window pane pieces).

On that note… I wonder if LEGO would ever consider introducing a new train door piece that features a more standardized window pane. While I know a lot of people would lament the loss of the textured window pane, it might bee much easier for LEGO to include a design like that in more sets, since it would share more components with other current sets.

I would also love if LEGO came out with a way of making sliding doors for subways, buses, trams, or automatic shop doors. It would be great for making doorways that are more accessible for wheelchairs or larger sorts of luggage than is possible with 4-stud-wide doorframes, but more compact and without needing as much clearance in front as a pair of train doors placed side by side like in 60154.

I've tried to explore ways of doing this with existing molds, like the sliding door technique used in the Ninjago City sets (a 1x4x6 window pane between two rail pieces), but the end result ends up feeling awfully tall by LEGO train standards and doesn't end up really resembling the sort of doors I'm used to seeing on real trains and subways.

Another easy way that LEGO could introduce doors with a wider frame could be if they introduced a set of french doors for the 1x6x6 window frame (42205), which like the 1x3x3 window frame is a recent addition to the current window and door system which has not been used very widely. But again, this might be too tall to realistically use on LEGO trains.

[legotownlinz]

2 hours ago, Amoreternum said:

I'm certainly not a purist, but I can't bring myself to thinking about chinese companies (especially the ones ripping AFOLs off) and companies working with them, like BlueBrixx does in the same way I think about most of the companies you mentioned. Somehow, there's quite a difference to me, maybe it's in regards of profit versus the will to make the hobby better, but I'm totally open for discussion. Maybe my mindset is just to narrow? No problem admitting that, should it be the case.

All companies offering Lego-compatible parts rip off Lego in some way. For example, all the third party track manufacturers copied the design of the Lego tracks, nevertheless they are welcome here.

Copies of entire sets are a no-go and there are good reasons such sets are illegal in Europe and the US, but everything else should be allowed to be discussed.

[Legownz]

16 hours ago, dtomsen said:

Most of the brands mentioned before compete with LEGO ?

I do agree that TrixBrix doing the double straight is getting into clone brand water to me. I have my own reasons for not wanting to shop with them anyway. The way I look at it is both those parts are desirable to fans, but the straight track is still in production, while the magnets haven't been made in years, therefore, the number will slowly decrease and prices rise as time goes on. Also, making the magnet a lot stronger will definitely improve and build upon the hobby, allowing longer/heavier trains. With the double straight, making it twice as long saves some money and packing space? I guess? I don't see that as anything more than a way to say "I'm not directly cloning Lego, see? See?"

[zephyr1934]

On 12/16/2020 at 10:58 AM, JopieK said:

Well, you made the topic about "LEGO Trains 2021", so please also keep it hat way.

I definitely agree, while some of us might want to discuss non-lego supplements, a thread on Lego Trains 2021 is not the place to do it.

But it is kind of sad that Lego hasn't given us much to talk about beyond, "I wish Lego would ..."

[Lord Insanity]

I mean Lego stopped making train windows.  How the heck is that supposed to not be a major problem for train builders.  If Lego isn't making the parts for which patents have run out, I have no problem buying third party parts that are effectively identical except for the stud logo.

When an entire bootleg set of the Emerald Night is cheaper than bricklinking just the tan train windows Lego has completely and utterly failed.  I do not understand how Lego could possibly think it is a good idea to waste resources playing legal whack-a-mole with bootleggers, rather than simply producing the "rare" parts and removing the monetary benefits of bootlegging in the first place.

My hope is someday we get a creator expert quality train station that comes with a coach equivalent to and/or compatible with the quality of the one that came with the Emerald Night.  Ideally they would just sell the coach but you know based on the sales of far poorer designs, this one wouldn't sell. 

[dr_spock]

Wasn't Fxbrick or somebody planning to produce the old style train windows?  I sense the next batch of CITY trains will be in the style of current modern trains.

[Selander]

Here's my take on using new window frames 3*3 #51239. They are assembled sideways to get right proportions, and I put a thin light gray stripe (from adhesive foil) onto the TrClear window. This way I can get nice looking tan "train" windows without breaking the bank or use clone brands.

 

[Aanchir]

5 hours ago, Lord Insanity said:

I mean Lego stopped making train windows.  How the heck is that supposed to not be a major problem for train builders.  If Lego isn't making the parts for which patents have run out, I have no problem buying third party parts that are effectively identical except for the stud logo.

I mean, it clearly hasn't been a major problem for the designers of official LEGO trains. As frustrating as it might be to lose some of the details like molded divisions between panes or rounded corners, the specificity of those details and proportions was at odds with the much wider variety of real-world train window designs which existed even at that time.

Also, many real-world trains have moved away from these sorts of rounded windows with sliding windowpanes, so while in earlier decades they would have made the sets feel more authentic to buyers no matter where they lived or how old they were, that is no longer strictly the case today. If LEGO really wanted to evoke that style of window in a modern set, they'd still have plenty of alternative ways of doing so which wouldn't require a bespoke mold — such as printing a rounded frame and windowpanes on a transparent panel or window pane mold.

And in the grand scheme of things, these are only one of the many sorts of highly specific molds that LEGO has moved away from over the past couple of decades. The same can be said for loads of other things that once had specialized molds tailored to them:

• rope bridges
• hovercraft skirts
• porthole windows
• tow truck booms
• flagpoles
• windmill blades
• flatbed trailers
• sink basins
• train station platforms
• sports fields
• …and so forth.

It's not like LEGO no longer cares about set designers or MOCists being able to include these sorts of features in their creations — they've just decided that the advantages of building all that stuff using less context-specific parts outweigh the advantages of having molds specifically tailored to those purposes.

5 hours ago, Lord Insanity said:

When an entire bootleg set of the Emerald Night is cheaper than bricklinking just the tan train windows Lego has completely and utterly failed.  I do not understand how Lego could possibly think it is a good idea to waste resources playing legal whack-a-mole with bootleggers, rather than simply producing the "rare" parts and removing the monetary benefits of bootlegging in the first place. 

The monetary benefits of bootlegging are overwhelmingly driven by copying existing part and model designs, cutting out a lot of the R&D expenses that legitimate building toy brands like LEGO, Mega Construx, K'nex, Cobi, and Erector/Meccano.

I understand that YOUR interest in counterfeit products is probably driven largely by the parts or sets they produce that are no longer available in current LEGO products — but that's a much smaller part of counterfeiters' business model (no matter what type of product they specialize in) than the cost savings from having so much of the work of coming up with highly desirable products already done for them at another company's expense. After all, if counterfeiters only existed because of "rare" sets or parts that LEGO no longer produces, why would so many counterfeiters waste their resources on copies of CURRENT sets and minifigures?

Edited December 18, 2020 by Aanchir

[Klaus-Dieter]

Although it's regrettably not much til now, thany you very much for the information so far!

 

With the huge success of the Crocodile Locomotive and TLG having noticed that AFOLs and Trains fans are a strong consumer group, I bet that there'll be a new and exclusive Trains set in 2021!

Although I'm that sort of hoping for an elevated train set (like a re-design of the Monorail), or at least would like to get a detailed old-style passenger train like the TEE, I "fear" that TLG is going to release only a single engine, again - if so, then this time for sure a steam locomotive.

On 11/28/2020 at 7:14 PM, Vilhelm22 said:

The important thing here is not what these particular sets are, but actually their numbers.  10278 up to 10295 inclusive is 18 expert sets in one year at least.  I think this raises the chances of a new expert train next year, or something related...

On the other hand these days TLG is sometimes "playing" with the set numbers: Some set sets released much earlier altgouh their numbers are higher. Plus there are some sets which were planned and then don't get released - so there are some numbers in between which are only numbers with no set behind.

On the other hand I've got the impression that the number of exclusive sets has increased in the last years. Plus with TLG finally remarked that AFLOs are a strong consumer group, too, TLG for sure is planning to release more sets for them in order to get their money.

So only time will tell ...

Edited December 18, 2020 by Klaus-Dieter

[Lord Insanity]

2 hours ago, Aanchir said:

I mean, it clearly hasn't been a major problem for the designers of official LEGO trains. As frustrating as it might be to lose some of the details like molded divisions between panes or rounded corners, the specificity of those details and proportions was at odds with the much wider variety of real-world train window designs which existed even at that time.

They haven't actually made a similar quality coach car to the one in the Emerald Night set since the windows haven't been in production.  So we haven't seen what, if anything, Lego actually plans to do now have we.

2 hours ago, Aanchir said:

I understand that YOUR interest in counterfeit products is probably driven largely by the parts or sets they produce that are no longer available in current LEGO products — but that's a much smaller part of counterfeiters' business model (no matter what type of product they specialize in) than the cost savings from having so much of the work of coming up with highly desirable products already done for them at another company's expense. After all, if counterfeiters only existed because of "rare" sets or parts that LEGO no longer produces, why would so many counterfeiters waste their resources on copies of CURRENT sets and minifigures?

I personally haven't ever really seen bootlegs of current sets.  I wouldn't by bootleg sets regardless.  I was merely illustrating how absurd it is that one can buy the bootleg of an entire set for less than just the original windows from said set.  Now as for the windows specifically, the patent has long since run out on those parts (frame and "glass".)  It is not possible to "counterfeit" something that is now in public domain.  I have no problem buying those from other manufacturers if Lego isn't making them.

5 hours ago, Selander said:

Here's my take on using new window frames 3*3 #51239. They are assembled sideways to get right proportions, and I put a thin light gray stripe (from adhesive foil) onto the TrClear window. This way I can get nice looking tan "train" windows without breaking the bank or use clone brands.

That is actually quite nice looking.  The only downside I see if Lego were to make a similar coach is the reliance on prints (or worse stickers) for the windows.  It does look good though.

[Aanchir]

3 hours ago, Lord Insanity said:

They haven't actually made a similar quality coach car to the one in the Emerald Night set since the windows haven't been in production.  So we haven't seen what, if anything, Lego actually plans to do now have we. 

Depends how you define "similar quality" — designers clearly didn't mind using more standard window panes and frames for the coach in the 2018 Hogwarts Express set, even though the coaches from the films had multi-pane windows which older depictions of the Hogwarts Express portrayed using the older train windows. Likewise, both the Disney Train and Winter Holiday Train used standard window panes and window frames, despite both those sets having a 12+ recommended age range. So it certainly doesn't seem like they object to compromising on minor details like that for sets portraying specific trains, OR for train sets aimed at teen and adult audiences.

And let's be real — even with its advanced building level, it's not as though the Emerald Night was free of compromises or inaccurate details in the first place. So even a designer of Jamie Berard's caliber probably wouldn't have been too bothered if he'd needed to use a different style of window on this sort of coach.

3 hours ago, Lord Insanity said:

Now as for the windows specifically, the patent has long since run out on those parts (frame and "glass".)  It is not possible to "counterfeit" something that is now in public domain.  I have no problem buying those from other manufacturers if Lego isn't making them.

That's fair, and I can't fault you for that, nor would I have any objection to other companies copying parts like this long after any sort of IP protections on them have expired. But that's all the more reason that LEGO reintroducing parts like the train windows wouldn't really hurt counterfeiters, since their business revolves around copying other companies' products whether or not a "legitimate" equivalents are available from the original manufacturer.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Aanchir

[dtomsen]

1 hour ago, Aanchir said:

But that's all the more reason that LEGO reintroducing parts like the train windows wouldn't really hurt counterfeiters, since their business revolves around copying other companies' products whether or not a "legitimate" equivalents are available from the original manufacturer.

But we are not discussing counterfeiters (per se) are we but other legit competitors be they clone or 3rd party brands.
No need to blur those lines more than necessary ?

[Aanchir]

11 hours ago, dtomsen said:

But we are not discussing counterfeiters (per se) are we but other legit competitors be they clone or 3rd party brands.
No need to blur those lines more than necessary ?

I was only mentioning counterfeiters/bootleggers in response to @Lord Insanity's claim that by bringing back rare parts like train windows, LEGO would be "removing the monetary benefits of bootlegging in the first place."

I agree that sites like Bluebrixx seem to be pretty careful about not stocking actual counterfeit versions of current or recent LEGO products (probably because as a European company, they could quickly get in hot water with customs agencies by importing counterfeit goods), but some of their suppliers like Decool are a little more suspect since they also produce actual counterfeit products in addition the stuff that Bluebrixx carries. Needless to say, figuring out which third-party manufacturers are trustworthy isn't always cut-and-dry.

In any case, the topic of third-party bricks was pretty off-topic for a thread about 2021 LEGO trains to begin with — it's safe to say that anybody expressing hopes for LEGO to introduce or reintroduce certain parts isn't concerned with what other brands carry parts like them. Rather, they're talking about ways they'd like to see LEGO themselves improve their product offerings. So while it's understandable to bring up other toy companies' products as a point of reference for what LEGO ought to be doing, it doesn't make much sense to drop links to or recommendations of non-LEGO products as if it somehow fulfills the hopes people have brought up in this thread.