Loose bricks on my last purchase

[Metal91]

Hello,

I'm new and I'm not sure where this topic belongs.

My recent purchase, set 21322 (Pirates of Barracuda bay) has very "not tight fitting" bricks and the whole set feels very delicate. I built it and put it on a shelf, but the other day I was trying to inspect it and look at the insides etc, but whenever I touched something, something else would fall apart. In fact, it feels like the entire set is barely holding together.

1) The walls of the captain's cabin are very very weak. I can't open the walls without having it all fall apart

2) The pier is very loose. I can lift off one of the brown plate by placing a mini-figure on it and then pulling it up

3) All the extra wooden bits are extremely weak. It takes as little as me going near them by accident for them to fall off

4) The white walls of the hull are very weak and prone to detachment whenever I separate the two halves of the assembled ship (similar problem to the captain's cabin)

5) All the yellow bits, like the railings, are barely holding up, and the figurehead tends to come off too easily

I've been buying legos since the 90's but I stopped around 2005. Just recently I started getting "relatively" new sets, like the silent Mary, and even then the entire ship was very resilient and easy to toy with.

I had been waiting for a new release of the pirates, but I've never had such a weak set. I bought it the same day of its release and at this point I'm not sure if I got a faulty set or if this set is just not meant to touch after you build it. Does anyone else have this problem? 

[deraven]

Hi Metal91 - welcome to EB!

Are you sure you have a legitimate Lego set?  I haven't finished building mine yet but so far no issues like that, and if you look at video reviews of the set online it's definitely not anywhere near as delicate as what you're describing.  It sounds like you either have a counterfeit set with poor quality bricks, or perhaps somehow the set was exposed to extreme temperatures that were enough to affect the clutch power of the bricks.  Definitely not normal.

[JintaiZ]

Hi, welcome to EB!

I've only had this problem once, but one you put the bricks tight together you'll be fine.

[Metal91]

I purchased it directly from the Lego website and everything about it was original, this is the order id: T356731895

The set has not been exposed to high temperature, not even to the sun since I haven't been at home after I bought it, so I literally built it and stored it away in my basement. However, even in the building phase I noticed that the railings were loose and that I couldn't open the cabin's walls without destroying it.

Only recently I took it out to put it on my new shelf unit but as I said, everything is loose fitting.

I'll try to take a video in these days to show you exactly what I mean, but what is it then?

[JintaiZ]

15 minutes ago, Metal91 said:

I purchased it directly from the Lego website and everything about it was original, this is the order id: T356731895

The set has not been exposed to high temperature, not even to the sun since I haven't been at home after I bought it, so I literally built it and stored it away in my basement. However, even in the building phase I noticed that the railings were loose and that I couldn't open the cabin's walls without destroying it.

Only recently I took it out to put it on my new shelf unit but as I said, everything is loose fitting.

I'll try to take a video in these days to show you exactly what I mean, but what is it then?

That could happen with some bricks, but it's extremely rare. Try contacting LEGO customer service and they'll send the replacement parts.

Hope that helped!

[Metal91]

1 minute ago, JintaiZ said:

That could happen with some bricks, but it's extremely rare. Try contacting LEGO customer service and they'll send the replacement parts.

Hope that helped!

I would need a replacement of almost the entirety of the set, since basically all bricks seem affected (especially the 1x1 bricks). 

I have owned some sets that have been exposed to all sorts of environments and after 20y the bricks are still working properly and decently tight fitting (eg the UFO sets, or the Desert Adventures). 

Something has definitely changed from 10y ago or so. The bricks do look more beautiful and shiny and I was really satisfied with the looks, and nowadays I don't really play around with them anymore, but I still collect the sets and I like to disassemble or toy around with them once in a while. But this set is untouchable.

I'll try to take a video tomorrow to show exactly what I mean. But what can be done in these cases? I don't think they'd accept returns for opened items, especially since some months already passed. I just want to be able to toy around with this set just like I do for the others.

[JintaiZ]

1 minute ago, Metal91 said:

I would need a replacement of almost the entirety of the set, since basically all bricks seem affected (especially the 1x1 bricks). 

I have owned some sets that have been exposed to all sorts of environments and after 20y the bricks are still working properly and decently tight fitting (eg the UFO sets, or the Desert Adventures). 

Something has definitely changed from 10y ago or so. The bricks do look more beautiful and shiny and I was really satisfied with the looks, and nowadays I don't really play around with them anymore, but I still collect the sets and I like to disassemble or toy around with them once in a while. But this set is untouchable.

I'll try to take a video tomorrow to show exactly what I mean. But what can be done in these cases? I don't think they'd accept returns for opened items, especially since some months already passed. I just want to be able to toy around with this set just like I do for the others.

They'd accept returns in 90 days...

[koalayummies]

1 hour ago, Metal91 said:

1) The walls of the captain's cabin are very very weak. I can't open the walls without having it all fall apart

I don't believe the walls are meant to open like on some of the older pirate ships (Skull's Eye Schooner had the swing-open walls of the captains cabin). It doesn't show this in any images and TLG likes to highlight functional play features. The walls use the hinge pieces in order to achieve the shape and angles necessary for a more realistic looking ship but once the rear wall of the cabin is flipped up and snapped into the ball joints it is assembled. Pulling it apart one must start at the rear wall and pull it back and down as its hinged at the bottom.

I think the cabin is really meant to be accessed by the pull-up ship's wheel deck.

1 hour ago, Metal91 said:

4) The white walls of the hull are very weak and prone to detachment whenever I separate the two halves of the assembled ship (similar problem to the captain's cabin)

I would go back and check that everything is snapped into place. I had an issue with one of the sloped angle walls but went back and realized it wasn't fully clipped into place.

Edited November 12, 2020 by koalayummies

[icm]

I second everything @koalayummies just said.  The walls of the captain's cabin aren't designed to open, and the Mixel joints that hold them together are designed to be very stiff and hard to take apart.  If the walls of the captain's cabin fall apart when you open them, it's not because the clutch of the bricks is too weak, it's because the clutch of the bricks (the Mixel joints) is strong.  If you want a pirate ship with opening cabin walls, buy 31109.  (I highly recommend it, it's a great set.)  The only play access to the cabin on 21322 is the removable roof.

[koalayummies]

2 hours ago, icm said:

The walls of the captain's cabin aren't designed to open, and the Mixel joints that hold them together are designed to be very stiff and hard to take apart.

Yes thats what I meant! Mixels joints; here I am calling them balljoints . Thanks for the clarification on that part.

[lego the hutt]

I had similar issues with the older Hogwarts sets from a few years back ...not the new Hogwarts.  They have almost 0 clutch power on some of the roof pieces.  They just sit there very loose.

I can only assume that the parts were exposed to extreme fluctuations in humidity that caused them to expand and shrink a tiny amount before I received them.

Fluctuations in humidity tends to be the cause of many problems with abs plastic.  Loss of clutch power being minor to brittle cracking and breaking being much more if an issue.

[JaBaCaDaBra]

8 hours ago, Metal91 said:

whenever I touched something, something else would fall apart

Hey
That's exactly what happens here with the 10252 Beetle.

[Peppermint_M]

First thought: Did you build it correctly?

I am terrible for guessing steps and even skipping (by accident, or poor attention) steps while building. Sometimes I only realise once I find a left over part that is too large to be spare. City and Friends are very forgiving to build like this, due to the intended age range, but I have actually had to take apart and start from the missed step on the higher age sets, discovering that the build is now flimsy from missing the step/part.

Also, I can mix up the left/right (Dyspraxia is a pain when building!) which again, sometimes is only noticeable when the structure becomes fragile.

[Metal91]

10 hours ago, koalayummies said:

I don't believe the walls are meant to open like on some of the older pirate ships (Skull's Eye Schooner had the swing-open walls of the captains cabin). It doesn't show this in any images and TLG likes to highlight functional play features. The walls use the hinge pieces in order to achieve the shape and angles necessary for a more realistic looking ship but once the rear wall of the cabin is flipped up and snapped into the ball joints it is assembled. Pulling it apart one must start at the rear wall and pull it back and down as its hinged at the bottom.

I think the cabin is really meant to be accessed by the pull-up ship's wheel deck.

I would go back and check that everything is snapped into place. I had an issue with one of the sloped angle walls but went back and realized it wasn't fully clipped into place.

Well, that makes sense then, but there is still the issue of the whole cabin being quite fragile (see videos below)

3 hours ago, lego the hutt said:

I had similar issues with the older Hogwarts sets from a few years back ...not the new Hogwarts.  They have almost 0 clutch power on some of the roof pieces.  They just sit there very loose.

I can only assume that the parts were exposed to extreme fluctuations in humidity that caused them to expand and shrink a tiny amount before I received them.

Fluctuations in humidity tends to be the cause of many problems with abs plastic.  Loss of clutch power being minor to brittle cracking and breaking being much more if an issue.

Yes, that's exactly what it feels like. Some pieces are just sitting there with no clutch power. However, if the problem was humidity on their production site, how do I solve this issue?

26 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

First thought: Did you build it correctly?

I am terrible for guessing steps and even skipping (by accident, or poor attention) steps while building. Sometimes I only realise once I find a left over part that is too large to be spare. City and Friends are very forgiving to build like this, due to the intended age range, but I have actually had to take apart and start from the missed step on the higher age sets, discovering that the build is now flimsy from missing the step/part.

Also, I can mix up the left/right (Dyspraxia is a pain when building!) which again, sometimes is only noticeable when the structure becomes fragile.

Yes, I did and I know what it feels like when you're missing an important structural piece. However, in this case the structural integrity of the set is jeopardized by the very low clutch power of the bricks.

 

I took some videos this morning. The quality is not exceptional as I recorded them with my phone, but it should give you a rough idea:

1) https://vimeo.com/478424069 Pier and captain cabin: the brown plate barely grips on the wooden poles and can be easily detached with one minifigure. The yellow bits of the cabin have very low structural integrity and the curved bits (both black and yellow) are just sitting there and just going near them knocks them off.

2) https://vimeo.com/478424450 wooden pillar and figurehead: the cylindrical brown blocks used as wooden pillar have very weak clutch power between each other, even though some of them are able to lift off other small plates. The figurehead is very delicate and the entire thing is under a lot of stress due to the yellow "chains" and tends to come off on its own after some time.

3) https://vimeo.com/478423845 wooden stairs and prison: again, the brown parts seem to be very loose fitting. I can remove the entire wooden stairs and the pier by using a minifigure. Even the brown tiles on the roof are just there and anything can knock them off.

4) https://vimeo.com/478423154 two halves connection: here you can see how trying to separate the two halves after assembly often incurs in the destruction of the white sloped walls. I had to press down on the whole thing and quickly separate it to avoid destruction. Even after locking things in place again, the hull walls are very weak and easily wobble even if I use the railings (that are already weak).

 

I've never had these issues with older lego sets, and to this day they are still very strong and indestructible. From what you guys are saying, It really feels like I got a faulty batch, but it could be that the new lego sets are intended to be like this. In the former case, how should I proceed?

Edited November 12, 2020 by Metal91
fixed link formatting

[koalayummies]

How long has it been assembled? Over time sets that are left assembled tend to get a little stiffer in their connections so if you're planning on keeping this together I think it will improve. Looking at the videos it really doesn't look like there's much of an issue. The minifigure leg anti-studs do seem to have really good clutch power which is why its lifting up the dock deck but everything else seems about normal (if you pull the minifigure forward at an angle to remove as opposed to pulling straight up it should prevent the dock from lifting). Its a little hard to determine the force being applied in all the examples though.

Lego from the 90s that you're comparing this to did have really strong clutch power but its been discussed around here how they've always sought a balance between clutch power and removal. Since this is still a building toy for kids they have to make them somewhat easy to separate. My pieces from the 90s are way too stiff compared to the pieces of today IMO, especially if left assembled all this time some of them are incredibly difficult to remove and make all kinds of creaking noises when manipulated.

Edited November 12, 2020 by koalayummies

[icm]

Based on what you wrote in the first post I wasn't sure if there was really a problem, but those videos make it clear that those parts are as loose as you say they are.  They do look quite a bit looser than most modern parts, even accounting for the fact that modern parts are deliberately manufactured with a bit less clutch power than they had back in the 70s and 80s.  Bad luck!  You should definitely get in touch with Customer Service.

[MAB]

Rather than pulling minifigures directly upwards, tilt them slightly as you lift them. Minifigure foot clutch has to be quite strong, as otherwise minifigures would fall over, especially if posed standing on one leg in an action pose.

Edited November 12, 2020 by MAB

[Metal91]

I agree that it's difficult to determine how much force I'm using from the video, which is why I tried to use little pieces to move things around. My main concern are the hull walls that are wobbly, just like the top of the captain's cabin. The pier is very weak tho. You've seen how easily the whole stair+pier was removed by the simple force of the minifigure legs (which belongs to the same set btw).

Also, it's sad that they decreased the clutch power on the new sets, even though I recently helped my nephew build one of the city sets and it seemed fine (or well, surely more gripping power than this set)

The set has been left assembled for 4-5 months. In any case, I'll get in touch with the customer support as suggested by some. If you have more suggestions, they are welcome. Thanks again for your attention

[JintaiZ]

55 minutes ago, Metal91 said:

I agree that it's difficult to determine how much force I'm using from the video, which is why I tried to use little pieces to move things around. My main concern are the hull walls that are wobbly, just like the top of the captain's cabin. The pier is very weak tho. You've seen how easily the whole stair+pier was removed by the simple force of the minifigure legs (which belongs to the same set btw).

Also, it's sad that they decreased the clutch power on the new sets, even though I recently helped my nephew build one of the city sets and it seemed fine (or well, surely more gripping power than this set)

The set has been left assembled for 4-5 months. In any case, I'll get in touch with the customer support as suggested by some. If you have more suggestions, they are welcome. Thanks again for your attention

I could definitely see that there's some trouble with the bricks! That said, I think simply swapping the bricks with other ones could work.

[MAB]

16 hours ago, Metal91 said:

I agree that it's difficult to determine how much force I'm using from the video, which is why I tried to use little pieces to move things around. My main concern are the hull walls that are wobbly, just like the top of the captain's cabin. The pier is very weak tho. You've seen how easily the whole stair+pier was removed by the simple force of the minifigure legs (which belongs to the same set btw).

Also, it's sad that they decreased the clutch power on the new sets, even though I recently helped my nephew build one of the city sets and it seemed fine (or well, surely more gripping power than this set)

The set has been left assembled for 4-5 months. In any case, I'll get in touch with the customer support as suggested by some. If you have more suggestions, they are welcome. Thanks again for your attention

Put two 2x4 bricks together and pull them in opposite directions, you can get them apart but you need a reasonable force. Do this with two old 2x4s and the clutch was higher and they were quite difficult to pull apart this way. But if you use a breaking action instead (bending the assembly at the join) then it is easier to break them apart.

 

[Metal91]

On 11/13/2020 at 12:22 PM, MAB said:

Put two 2x4 bricks together and pull them in opposite directions, you can get them apart but you need a reasonable force. Do this with two old 2x4s and the clutch was higher and they were quite difficult to pull apart this way. But if you use a breaking action instead (bending the assembly at the join) then it is easier to break them apart.

I can lift all the brown plates even using 1x1 bricks, even though the plates are technically anchored to an equivalent surface of 3x3 or higher. Also, while toying around with the set, I found some extra weak parts, such as the railings on the forward part of the ship, or the forepeak. The bricks simply don't "click". I don't get that sensation when I put two pieces together like I used to, there is no click. I noticed that all the brown, black and yellow bricks have very low clutch power. Some of the grey bricks seem fine (but the sloped ones are still weak), while the minifigures seem ok. I will take some extra videos when I get home. 

The most recent set I got is the Silent Mary from 2017, and the set is a very sturdy and tough. I've manipulated it many times when I was looking for a place where to put it, and I was amazed at how the ship could hold in spite of the weight. Even the side "ribs" are well attached, even though they are only supported on 1x2 surface areas. If I had to compare the clutch power of the Silent Mary with the Barracuda bay, it's day and night. So if nothing changed about the brick quality from 2017 to 2020, then the set I got does have some problem. 

I've already contacted TLG about this, even though I guess they are overflowing with requests at the moment, so I don't know when I'll hear back from them. I still got the box and all the parts, but naming every piece that needs replacement when there are more than 2500 pieces to count is a rather time consuming process, so I hope I can just return this and get a new, functional version of it. I don't even want the money back because I still love this set, I just want a functional version of it.

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Metal91