Torn Between Supercars

[Vectormatic]

This is quite an interesting topic, and im happy to see it discussed openly on this forum. I feel like brands like CADA which offer original designs (whether inhouse or contracted like Bruno) offer a ligitimate option for AFOLs, and in time might move Lego to step up their design game. (given how generally the top minds of our community tend to come up with more complex and better designs then lego's own top sets).

 

On the topic, i think the CADA set will be more challenging, as it doesnt need to meet lego's strict design guidelines, and will also offer more features and authenticity. Also, if you've already built the Chiron, i dont think the Sian brings anything new to the table, mechanism wise. (which to me, is a big downside, considering i feel like the Chirons paddleshift is a downgrade from the porsche one). I also think the CADA set looks better, but that might be down to me just thinking the Ferrari 488 is one of the best looking modern sportscars out there, and the Sian isnt particularly handsome.

The whole China-thing does mean i havent bought a CADA set though, and probably wont. I have no problems buying other brands then Lego (Ive got a decent collection of Cobi tanks), but i do not feel comfortable supporting China as a country and system if i do not have to (try buying a mobile phone without sponsorring china..), but that is a decission everyone has to make for themselves. If the CADA set had been made by a non-chinese company (say Cobi), i would have bought one over the Sian in a heartbeat.

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by vectormatic

[J159753]

Do we have the faintest idea of how many sets Lego sell? even to the nearest order of magnitude. I'm not asking for inside information, just back-of-envelope hypotheses. E.g. would little pull-backs sell c.100,000 world-wide over a 2-year lifespan, but a flagship technic model more like 20,000? Are these figures hilariously high or low? I've no idea. 

[JintaiZ]

Forgot to say: Why not Bugatti Chiron? It's one of the best building experiences I've ever had!! Even at full price, you're really getting a lot for your money.

[thekoRngear]

19 hours ago, JintaiZ said:

Forgot to say: Why not Bugatti Chiron? It's one of the best building experiences I've ever had!! Even at full price, you're really getting a lot for your money.

Hey, the Chiron is just fine as you mentioned. However, the Sian, despite being not as good looking as the iconic Chiron (again that is subjective, but rationality says so) actually has better suspension, Refined gearbox, and  more build time with more challenges. And since I never owned a Supercar before why not grab the Sian? Thats what I thought if I were to choose between the two.

@vectormatic thnks for your precious insights and thoughts. Currently (at least) two EB forums members are building the Cada supercar. Lets see how it turns out finally for em. I personally am leaning towards Cada but I understand and respect your not being comfy with China. 

Edited November 4, 2020 by thekoRngear

[Bartybum]

2 hours ago, thekoRngear said:

However, the Sian, despite being not as good looking as the iconic Chiron (again that is subjective, but rationality says so)

Yeah hold riiiight up. Subjective is subjective, no rationality about it.

[Vectormatic]

2 hours ago, Bartybum said:

Yeah hold riiiight up. Subjective is subjective, no rationality about it. 

Might be a translation error, he could mean rationality as in the ratios in the vehicle.

 

TBH, i think neither car (as in the real things) are particularly beautifull, The chiron (and veyron before it) look a bit too massive and cumbersome to me, while the Sian looks a tad overstyled, there are just too many lines, and the lights/nose... Neither car will stand out as a design classic in 30-40 years, while i suspect the Murciellago or Aventader will.

 

@thekoRngear is ordering extra parts through bricklink an option for you? If that is the case i would recommend the Chiron and going for the "pimped up" build. I havent done that to my Chiron yet, but i did build the GT3RS in pimped up spec, and i rate that well above the Chiron. I would expect a pimped up Chiron to be a nicer experience then a stock Sian. Then two years down the line when all the Sian mods are done and documented, you can pick up the Sian and build that in proper modded spec.

[amorti]

16 hours ago, thekoRngear said:

Currently (at least) two EB forums members are building the Cada supercar. Lets see how it turns out finally for em. 

First to say, I have built some big kits but this is my first 1:8 supercar build, and my first 3k+ piece build. So I'm not best placed to rate one against another.

I'm into book 4 of 6, so the technical side of the build is just about finished now. Most of what remains is bodywork, which I learned from Lego's 911RSR is not my favourite game. Anyway I can say about the experience so far.

This model is structurally very well built. Lots of cross bracing means it really holds itself together well so far.

The gearbox is brilliant. It shifts very well even under load. The shift paddles moving is genius in both concept and execution.

Steering is the normal double wishbone suspension without any complex geometry, but at least it's sturdily built without much flex. Above all, it's motorised. What's the play fun in a 1:8 supercar where the only steering involves opening the door, and trying to turn a steering wheel with your fingers contorted?

The instructions are very good. Everything is broken out nicely into subassemblies then added to the car. Angles are well chosen, although this does mean you frequently have to turn the model around. Good news is nothing wants to fall off too easy.

The guy got sleepy when he was doing the seats, and forgot that they're identical and could be done as a 2x step. I found one step where it said you needed two pins and actually you needed one, but other than that I haven't found any errors. You even get decent instructions in where to run the cabling.

CaDA pieces are mostly good, but the consistency you get with Lego is missing on a few parts. Pins go in and out very nicely, but some connector pieces do have loose axle holes. I guess their moulds turns out 100 pieces at a time, and maybe 20 off them are loose. 

For this build it hasn't been a problem so far, since mostly it's the 90° pin/axle connector pieces which are loose, and they're always used as cross braces where they can't fall out. But you will notice it while you're building.

Is the odd loose connector enough to stop me recommending it? No. 

Would I pay the same money for the CaDA kit as a motorised Lego 1:8 supercar? No. But Lego doesn't offer one and if they did it'd be over twice the price of this kit.

Make no mistake - this model is a work of art, a genuine masterpiece. Beautiful, sturdy, and full of motorised functions. If you like technic supercars and even if you have built plenty, this still has unique features and enough to impress, that you should give it a go. I'm having great fun building it so far.

For the price, the CaDA kit is great value and yes, I believe any technic supercar fan should give it a try. What do you have to lose? Worst case, you don't like the parts and you sell the kit on. Keep the instructions and build it from Danish bricks!

Edited November 5, 2020 by amorti

[LvdH]

I have built both, although the red supercar using real LEGO. If you don’t mind the other brand, go for the red supercar. It looks a lot nicer, it doesn’t just sit still on your shelf, the functions are a step up and work perfectly. And like amorti said, if you don’t like it you can just sell it.

[iLego]

On 11/3/2020 at 4:25 PM, vectormatic said:

but i do not feel comfortable supporting China as a country and system if i do not have to

Actually this is the crux of the issue. All problems we have with China are due to the non-democratic setup there, whether the minor Lego issues or the bigger geopolitical ones.

The car itself is going to be fantastic ... it is after all a Brunojj1 design.

[thekoRngear]

@vectormatic, thnks again for sharing the honest thoughts about the "beauty" of the Chiron and Sian. Exactly my thoughts. I just could not come up with any better words. I personally liked the back of the Chiron more than the Sian's. The latter's back design looks confusing to me. Good to see someone came up with more attractive tail light mod ideas in the Sian mods thread.
@amorti, that was insanely helpful for making up my mind. I was thinking even if I manage to make the Lego UCS cars a bit more playable by using the pimp up mods like "correcting" the gearbox, adding centre diff, steering, tbh, it will actually feel weird when I hand move such big car lol. For a scale of Defender it is still lotta fun to play around. My point is, if such big cars are to be moved/played around, RCing them is the best approach (Of course, this point can be easily dismissed by anyone). 
From another point of view, for all the current UCS series, it is best to Just enjoy the build and keep it on the shelves, and, from thereon, if someone wants, they can step up the game further if he has abundance of parts or has the ease of buying them. As for me, who lives in the South-East part of Asia, has just one Technic set (a first in his adulthood), it is better for him to buy and build and eventually create MOC of more technically functional sets over time. And then buy a UCS car once its mods are well documented and priced down. 
I would rather buy a UCS later, grab the Bruno Supercar now. For those who think a Lego supercar should be prioritized over/prefered to they also are right lol. I will have at least one Lego UCS when it's time. In fact, anyone should at least build one Lego Supercar (particularly the last two ones) just for the sake of enjoying the build when the price (not necessarily) is just right for them (s/he has to be a supercar fan/enthusiast first though).

Edited November 5, 2020 by thekoRngear

[howitzer]

2 hours ago, thekoRngear said:

 In fact, anyone should at least build one Lego Supercar (particularly the last two ones) just for the sake of enjoying the build when the price (not necessarily) is just right for them (s/he has to be a supercar fan/enthusiast first though).

I'm not a supercar enthusiast by any means, but I'd like to build one at some point, just for the novelty of the building experience. My problem here is that I have no interest in keeping it built (in a shelf collecting dust), and the colours aren't that great for MOC making so I'd end up with piles and piles of parts that are next to useless to me. I don't think the resale value of a used one is that great either. If they at some point release a supercar in more usable colour, I might consider getting it, though the premium price is off-putting as where I live they are never sold with big enough discount to truly offset the premium. In that sense getting a CaDA set might actually be a good option. But then, there are huge amount of other, more interesting sets to buy and very limited funds so, no supercars for me in the foreseeable future...

[amorti]

I can imagine the limited resale value. Can you imagine building a 3500 piece model which didn't come in numbered bags?

[astyanax]

13 minutes ago, amorti said:

I can imagine the limited resale value. Can you imagine building a 3500 piece model which didn't come in numbered bags?

Yes, I recently finished building the Chiron (in red-black) from my own collection -- I do not own the official set. Fortunately I have a very organized parts collection.

Then again, to get (and keep) it this organized, you have to be willing to do a lot of sorting. So I guess your point still stands.

[howitzer]

Also, considering much of the "premium" is tied into the packaging and first-time building experience, the resale value drops a lot if it's built, as the set is just not the same anymore. This of course applies to almost any set, but to much lesser extent as they don't have such a premium.

I also have a very organized parts collection so I could also build the Chiron mostly, I'm not sure I have all the panels (at least not in matching colours) and I'm missing the wheels and brake discs, but I think I have all the other parts. Haven't checked though.

[Vectormatic]

The resale value of the lego sets is also rather closely tied to the insane offers going around, even if i paid €300 for the Chiron (and the MSRP is €400 over here), the €250 offers will dictate that there is no way im getting over ~€220 for it without the box.

@howitzer Is buying used an option for you? I bought my GT3RS from a guy who got it on a good sale, built it, then resold it, because while he liked building, he didnt have the space to keep a big collection, that way he got to experience the build, knock a few tenners off the price and resell it. Doing the same with a used set will obviously limit your losses even more.

[howitzer]

1 hour ago, vectormatic said:

The resale value of the lego sets is also rather closely tied to the insane offers going around, even if i paid €300 for the Chiron (and the MSRP is €400 over here), the €250 offers will dictate that there is no way im getting over ~€220 for it without the box.

@howitzer Is buying used an option for you? I bought my GT3RS from a guy who got it on a good sale, built it, then resold it, because while he liked building, he didnt have the space to keep a big collection, that way he got to experience the build, knock a few tenners off the price and resell it. Doing the same with a used set will obviously limit your losses even more.

I've thought about it, but then again, I could also just get the parts I'm missing, which should be significantly less expensive. Would have to think of a colour scheme according to my panels collection though. I actually checked it on Rebrickable, and I have some 76% of the parts, but most of the missing ones are colour mismatches, like black 5x7 frames, which I have only a few but which are easy to replace with LBG ones. Rims seem to be pretty expensive, and I'm not sure they can be replaced with anything other than Porsche/Sian rims (which aren't really cheaper).

[Vectormatic]

@howitzer If you can build one from spares, all the better! As for wheels, watch out for the fact that the chiron and sian have brake discs, and a different offset on the wheels, so they wont fit on the porsche properly, and vice versa, without also swapping the hubs. And alternate option would be the wheels/tires from 42000, as they have the same outer diameter, but they might be a bit narrower, they will also look a tad weird on a supercar, but should be much cheaper, the wheels on that set are about as common as they get.

[amorti]

1 hour ago, vectormatic said:

@howitzer If you can build one from spares, all the better! As for wheels, watch out for the fact that the chiron and sian have brake discs, and a different offset on the wheels

Uh oh... I've swapped some CaDA rims and hub for Bugatti rims and hubs with @Gray Gear... if the offset is different, are they not going to fit the red supercar??

Edited November 6, 2020 by amorti

[astyanax]

8 minutes ago, amorti said:

Uh oh... I've swapped some CaDA rims and hub for Bugatti rims and hubs with @Gray Gear... if the offset is different, are they not going to fit the red supercar??

I think it'll be fine, if you leave out the red brake pads on the 488 Pista. The offset difference is only like half a module.

[LvdH]

16 minutes ago, amorti said:

Uh oh... I've swapped some CaDA rims and hub for Bugatti rims and hubs with @Gray Gear... if the offset is different, are they not going to fit the red supercar??

They fit fine. I’ve got the Lamborghini Sian wheels under mine. It steers just fine, and I added brake callipers similar to the Bugatti and Lamborghini as well.

[Gray Gear]

39 minutes ago, amorti said:

Uh oh... I've swapped some CaDA rims and hub for Bugatti rims and hubs with @Gray Gear... if the offset is different, are they not going to fit the red supercar??

´Dont worry mate I even test fitted them on my Nissan GTR MOC just to make sure everything works fine 

[amorti]

Thanks guys, that's a relief.

I can live without brake calipers, or I'll look if I have parts to do it like the cars the wheels came from.

[thekoRngear]

1 hour ago, amorti said:

Thanks guys, that's a relief.

I can live without brake calipers, or I'll look if I have parts to do it like the cars the wheels came from.

How close are you to finishing the red beauty? 

[LvdH]

2 hours ago, amorti said:

Thanks guys, that's a relief.

I can live without brake calipers, or I'll look if I have parts to do it like the cars the wheels came from.

It's honestly really simple to do. This is how I did it:

Of course the rotor and the 1x4 calliper are missing in the picture, but you get the idea. 

[amorti]

4 hours ago, thekoRngear said:

How close are you to finishing the red beauty? 

I am well into the fifth instructions book out of 6. Still enjoying it - even the bodywork part!

I guess I'll finish over this weekend.

4 hours ago, LvdH said:

It's honestly really simple to do. This is how I did it:

Of course the rotor and the 1x4 calliper are missing in the picture, but you get the idea. 

Does indeed look pretty simple. Thanks for the tip.

I'll put the parts in next time I need to make a bricklink order.