What to do when a knock off brand steals your moc?

[legoMoccer]

hi guys i just saw a post on facebook of a knock off brand stealing my moc that is in review on Lego Ideas

this is my lego ideas project https://ideas.lego.com/projects/7268ebc2-160d-4480-8b47-6fa68fa5564a

and this is the scummy copy

https://www.gameard.com/products/welcome-to-animal-forest?fbclid=IwAR35nw2oLUwnz-cAe1eKbQwhL5cfmx78SOpbJU7GsWAY3cnRI00rQFH-pWI

[toastergrl]

Under regular cicrumstances you might be in trouble on account of LEGO legally owning any submitted Product Idea (for 3 years) so you can't take legal action yourself, and there are unfortunately multiple examples of clone brands taking Idea concepts and selling them themselves where the company has not seen it necessary to take the KO down. However since you're in review they have a vested interest in protecting the concept in case they place it into production, so I advise you contact a LEGO Ideas representative about it to discuss. If you've already been contacted about the 10k interview everyone gets I'd recommend shooting off an email to the person who sent you that; otherwise, support DOT ideas AT lego DOT com is your best bet.

How do clone brands end up recreating these things so thoroughly, anyways? Have you shared the instructions or CAD model(s) online, or is it some scummy builder's job to go through promising concepts and attempt to recreate them brick by brick to try to snipe the opportunity?

Edited October 6, 2020 by toastergrl
Cleaned up wording.

[JintaiZ]

Edit: The product page has been removed so it should be fine.

Edited February 11, 2021 by JintaiZ

[KotZ]

38 minutes ago, toastergrl said:

How do clone brands end up recreating these things so thoroughly, anyways? Have you shared the instructions or CAD model(s) online, or is it some scummy builder's job to go through promising concepts and attempt to recreate them brick by brick to try to snipe the opportunity?

They might just have dedicated people to figuring out how a set works, similar to how we as a fandom built alternate builds we saw in instructions back in the day.

[howitzer]

59 minutes ago, toastergrl said:

How do clone brands end up recreating these things so thoroughly, anyways? Have you shared the instructions or CAD model(s) online, or is it some scummy builder's job to go through promising concepts and attempt to recreate them brick by brick to try to snipe the opportunity?

I don't know about others but this one doesn't seem to be very complex build. I think I could replicate it in a day if I had the parts, as almost everything is easily visible in the pictures of the set.

It would be much harder to do a decent job at replicating something like Technic sets, considering the internals can get pretty complex and are not usually very visible.

[legoMoccer]

1 hour ago, toastergrl said:

Under regular cicrumstances you might be in trouble on account of LEGO legally owning any submitted Product Idea (for 3 years) so you can't take legal action yourself, and there are unfortunately multiple examples of clone brands taking Idea concepts and selling them themselves where the company has not seen it necessary to take the KO down. However since you're in review they have a vested interest in protecting the concept in case they place it into production, so I advise you contact a LEGO Ideas representative about it to discuss. If you've already been contacted about the 10k interview everyone gets I'd recommend shooting off an email to the person who sent you that; otherwise, support DOT ideas AT lego DOT com is your best bet.

How do clone brands end up recreating these things so thoroughly, anyways? Have you shared the instructions or CAD model(s) online, or is it some scummy builder's job to go through promising concepts and attempt to recreate them brick by brick to try to snipe the opportunity?

thanks i sent an email over to them now, 

i watched a video of someone building this knock off set and the build itself is fairly different its just the parts you can clearly see that are the same, i assume someone copies what they can see in a digital program or with bricks and then fills everything else in as best they can 

[JintaiZ]

6 hours ago, howitzer said:

I don't know about others but this one doesn't seem to be very complex build. I think I could replicate it in a day if I had the parts, as almost everything is easily visible in the pictures of the set.

It would be much harder to do a decent job at replicating something like Technic sets, considering the internals can get pretty complex and are not usually very visible.

I think you could just copy the exterior and do the interior as best as you can...

[Mylenium]

13 hours ago, legoMoccer said:

hi guys i just saw a post on facebook of a knock off brand stealing my moc that is in review on Lego Ideas

Just another of those pointless "Uh-ah, someone stole my precious MOC!" *sob,sob* discussions. As long as LEGO haven't even approved your design, what should they even do about this? You know, the deed hasn't even been done and there is no such thing as pre-crime in the real world. At worst they can simply eliminate your entry from Ideas. Everything else is up to Nintendo, if they even care. Beyond that there is nothing to see here.

Mylenium

[Peppermint_M]

14 hours ago, Mylenium said:

Just another of those pointless "Uh-ah, someone stole my precious MOC!" *sob,sob* discussions. As long as LEGO haven't even approved your design, what should they even do about this? You know, the deed hasn't even been done and there is no such thing as pre-crime in the real world. At worst they can simply eliminate your entry from Ideas. Everything else is up to Nintendo, if they even care. Beyond that there is nothing to see here.

Mylenium

So why did you feel the need to come in and be an arse about it? Add something to the conversation; scathing rhetoric against the OP is more suited to other locations than Eurobricks. 

Another case of a member who should know a great deal better doing exactly opposite.

[legoMoccer]

17 hours ago, Mylenium said:

Just another of those pointless "Uh-ah, someone stole my precious MOC!" *sob,sob* discussions. As long as LEGO haven't even approved your design, what should they even do about this? You know, the deed hasn't even been done and there is no such thing as pre-crime in the real world. At worst they can simply eliminate your entry from Ideas. Everything else is up to Nintendo, if they even care. Beyond that there is nothing to see here.

Mylenium

you realise this is a huge problem in the Moc scene, they are making thousands from peoples passion, these knock off groups are now stealing large amounts of mocs that way they cant be in trouble with Lego, so sure it may be another snob story but the fact this is happening in huge numbers recently is awful...

also when you submit a project to Lego Ideas they hold the license to it for around 3 years i think meaning you cant sell or profit from it until it has been declined, in some cases Lego has turned down submissions because they "copied" a chinese knock off project when in fact the person had their moc stolen before hand

and this is the first time i have had my work stolen so i was just curious if there was anything i was able to do about it

Edited October 8, 2020 by legoMoccer

[MAB]

3 hours ago, legoMoccer said:

in some cases Lego has turned down submissions because they "copied" a chinese knock off project when in fact the person had their moc stolen before hand

How do you know it was turned down because it was 'copied' and not because it was not a suitable project for LEGO, when LEGO do not give reasons for not accepting ideas?

Which IDEAS projects were these?

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by MAB

[Mylenium]

13 hours ago, legoMoccer said:

you realise this is a huge problem in the Moc scene

No, it isn't. Least of all given the folly that is submitting a license-based IP to LEGO Ideas is. Let's review the facts:

• You latched on to an IP that is not owned by LEGO nor yet licensed in any official capacity whatsoever.
• Said IP is a game played by millions of users every day.
• Aforementioned users get to see "Nook's Cranny" regularly.

Now here's your homework:

• Draw a Venn diagram of the numbers of AC players and LEGO aficionados.
• Calculate the statistical probabilities of one single person of the intersecting crowd being able to a) deduce and transfer the design into bricks as you did and b) making a buck of it by selling the design.

We are literally done at this point and there really is nothing more to say. The mere supposition that someone would need to "steal" your MOC to create a similar or even identical design makes no sense from here on. Does it suck that you got shafted and now your fifteen minutes of fame fall of the precipice? Sure. But seriously, move on, just forget it and create your own designs. Maybe one of those might make it big on Ideas.

Mylenium

Edited October 8, 2020 by Mylenium

[Mylenium]

16 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

So why did you feel the need to come in and be an big behind about it?

Some call it being a dick, others call it reality check. It's pretty much up to POV and we could exchange niceties about it all day, but I'm not going there. Have a pleasant day!

Mylenium

[Peppermint_M]

3 hours ago, Mylenium said:

Some call it being a dick, others call it reality check. It's pretty much up to POV and we could exchange niceties about it all day, but I'm not going there. Have a pleasant day!

Mylenium

Sure, ignore the part where I ask you to take the behaviour elsewhere. Sure, different POV is fine, but unrelenting negativity is not an asset to any community.

[toastergrl]

I mean, it also happens with non-licensed projects. whatsuptoday and Spacemd's Saturn V Launch Tower is a particularly high-profile example, but if you'd use the same arguments that it's a recognisable "location"/set concept, GabKremo's Dock was knocked off as well - and that's a hundred percent original idea, insofar as it's a structure that wouldn't draw high attention outside of being well-built. I've done my research, and in many ways I'm thankful that my own project only attracted the attention of hobbyist minifig cloners working through Amiami. I think you're letting your distaste for license-based Ideas cloud properly understanding this topic.

(I wrote this before Peppermint_M's post, but I think it's still appropriate to share.)

[Nantucketdink]

Congratulations...take a bow.  Your creation is being mass produced and sold all across the world.  It is a variant of what you were hoping would happen.  Great job!!!  I realize there was theft involved, but its still pretty cool your set is for sale.  Buy one and frame the box and put it up on your wall.  Fun little story to share.  Make the best of it.  Think positively about it if you can.

[howitzer]

59 minutes ago, Nantucketdink said:

Congratulations...take a bow.  Your creation is being mass produced and sold all across the world.  It is a variant of what you were hoping would happen.  Great job!!!  I realize there was theft involved, but its still pretty cool your set is for sale.  Buy one and frame the box and put it up on your wall.  Fun little story to share.  Make the best of it.  Think positively about it if you can.

My take on this kind of thing is that one has to first decide if building Lego is a hobby or if it's a means of earning income. If the latter, then you could pursue whatever legal courses there are to remedy the situation. If the former, you should refer to the above comment. Of course as it is an Ideas submission, there's an obvious financial interest at play. I have to wonder, though, as it is based on third party IP anyway, how could it be mass-produced and sold without infringing that? Is whoever stole the design going to buy the IP rights (from under TLG's nose) or going for a full-scale piracy?

[Toastie]

2 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

but unrelenting negativity is not an asset to any community

To be quite honest: I absolutely do see your point. And that is not just a "comment"; it is a feeling I so often share.

However, (what else could come now ...) - I fully agree with @Mylenium on the comments he (she - I don't know) made: It is sometimes better to just being hammered to reality as merely floating within hopes and ideas - which will eventually be crushed - just to figure out that this world - reality - is a bit - discomforting, to say the least.

However, (we need to come to ... merging feelings) - I'd be better told in a bold and "it is what it is" way than being pampered with "who knows, maybe, try this and that". This issue has been discussed here on EB so many times - in this and that and that and another forum - and it may be that folks being around for ages getting a bit tired and take the "shortcut".

This "shortcut" maybe then be perceived as "unrelenting negativity". For sure. Old farts like me receive such posts as "heard that, been there, done that ..." - and conceive the consequences as "reality".

Maybe an emoji placed here and there makes a difference in perception when posting, maybe not.

All the best,
Thorsten

   

[MAB]

1 hour ago, howitzer said:

 Is whoever stole the design going to buy the IP rights (from under TLG's nose) or going for a full-scale piracy?

Full scale piracy. They don't pay license costs for STAR PLAN or STAR WNRS sets or Justice Magician sets.

[Vindicare]

9 hours ago, toastergrl said:

I mean, it also happens with non-licensed projects. whatsuptoday and Spacemd's Saturn V Launch Tower is a particularly high-profile example, but if you'd use the same arguments that it's a recognisable "location"/set concept, GabKremo's Dock was knocked off as well - and that's a hundred percent original idea, insofar as it's a structure that wouldn't draw high attention outside of being well-built. I've done my research, and in many ways I'm thankful that my own project only attracted the attention of hobbyist minifig cloners working through Amiami. I think you're letting your distaste for license-based Ideas cloud properly understanding this topic.

(I wrote this before Peppermint_M's post, but I think it's still appropriate to share.)

Yep, I remember years ago when the B&N/Starbucks Modular was stolen & made by Lepin. And that was a big deal. 

 

 

The sting of having one’s idea stolen will hurt regardless of it being a known property or not. Can’t blame them for being upset. That’s still someone’s hard work & effort. Sure, the offense of it all shouldn’t be too high because it’s merely a copy of a well known game & not an original idea. 

[Mylenium]

9 hours ago, howitzer said:

I have to wonder, though, as it is based on third party IP anyway, how could it be mass-produced and sold without infringing that?

Could be perfectly legal in China or wherever this is hailing from if it falls under some sort of "artistic interpretation" rule. The illegal part then merely would be selling it outside the country...

Mylenium

8 hours ago, Toastie said:

This "shortcut" maybe then be perceived as "unrelenting negativity". For sure. Old farts like me receive such posts as "heard that, been there, done that ..." - and conceive the consequences as "reality".

Not just that... It's also a cultural thing. We Germans are a lot more direct and not as burdened by some formalities. Had many such clashes over misunderstandings simply because my wording came across as rude when around here it would be just normal...

Mylenium

[howitzer]

9 hours ago, MAB said:

Full scale piracy. They don't pay license costs for STAR PLAN or STAR WNRS sets or Justice Magician sets.

In that it's better just to forget about it. If media juggernaut like Disney (or previously Lucasfilm) can't keep the pirates at bay, there's little hope for anyone else doing anything about it.

[Peppermint_M]

13 hours ago, toastergrl said:

(I wrote this before Peppermint_M's post, but I think it's still appropriate to share.)

And your post is polite, accurate and part of the discussion. The "tone" of a post is important.

[MAB]

1 hour ago, howitzer said:

In that it's better just to forget about it. If media juggernaut like Disney (or previously Lucasfilm) can't keep the pirates at bay, there's little hope for anyone else doing anything about it.

Exactly.

[Toastie]

15 hours ago, Mylenium said:

We Germans are a lot more direct and not as burdened by some formalities.

Yes we are. And may I add: It appears as if it renders life sometimes a lot less wishy-washy. But then again: It is a cultural thing. I like. Guess because I was socially imprgenated in Germany.

So then: Here's to the culture of all EB members!!! (Replace the beer with water/or whatever if inappropriate - been some time in Bangladesh - and I call tell: Water or fresh juice from the country works very, very well when you are guest in a completely different culture.

All the best
Thorsten