keybrickone

Keybrick One / Rechargeable battery pack for Powered Up

Recommended Posts

40 minutes ago, Toastie said:

The example you showed is really restricted in space. I don't believe that this is generally (but of course here specifically!) the case. Correct me, if I am wrong.

I think my example is typical for most trains designed for Powered Up. It uses a standard base plate and has a size similar to many other engine, it's not a particularly small engine.

 

46 minutes ago, Toastie said:

What is freely available in the left engine?

Left and right engine are 99.9% identical. The only difference is a polarity change of the motor.

I use two motors in every engine. It's a rule of thumb that one motor is required per three wagons, otherwise the train can't climb the inclines of two plates per straight track.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Toastie said:

What about doing it this in a way with your universal connector brick aligning "vertically" with the KB one/2I/O hub? With no studs/anti-studs at all? Full height/width but maybe just 1 wide? I like the idea of screwing on the supply cables very, very much (this is the idea, right?).

With no studs, but just 1 wide, it could be "tucked in". No tolerances in the way other than: 1 wide fits.

I could - at best - make it about 2 studs "deep" and it's pretty much limited in height because the USB port is on the same side as the the PUP connectors, so that would need to be accounted for as well. Finally there's no standard "screw" (or "spring clamp" type as in the concept) terminal block that fits in there, so some other connector or soldering would be required again.

As an idea perhaps: I could give the idea a shot with the following changes:

  • change the input supply range to be 5.5V - 18V (allows me to get rid of one HUGE inductor and a few passives along the way because it would becomec a step down only converter)
  • 2 studs deep, about the width of the hub. Whatever height is required to fit everything while leaving space for the PUP connectors
  • input connector will have to become something like a JST-PH (2mm pitch) connector (commonly used for batteries, like on this board of mine: https://hhtronik.com/product/pgcpsu-duo/)
  • plugs straight into the micro usb port

The limit here is really the 2 studs depth:

20201119_082106.png

I'm not aware of any comparable but shorter USB plug part (except one that is surface mount only that I already evaluated in the past and that would just rip off the PCB under the tiniest mechanical load).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

Here's an actual train and for comparison a typical USB cable.

  • A Lego Pup plug requires a free space of at least one stud with two studs being better to have enough room for the excess length of the cable.
  • The USB-A plug has a length of five studs (not including the metal part that would be inside the jack!) and six studs if you don't want to cripple the cable.
  • Neither left nor right to the battery box is enough space for the 2 x 4 wide voltage range brick, least of all for the USB cable.


From earlier in this thread, a more appropriate USB cable
FPV-Micro-USB-2-0-Type-A-90-degree-Adapt

Nice train BTW :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Btw. these can be bought for comparatively little money from Aliexpress, just search for "usb cable ffp" or "usb cable ffc". As you can see they are using the same type of connector I have in mind for the "vertical" version of the power supply block. But it'll definitely take about 2 studs in depth when connected (2x2 plus whatevery space you need to route the cable).

If you're looking to buy one of these for use with Keybrick, make sure you get the right orientation for the cable. This one would make the cable go "up" (considering the hub orientation) because the usb port in KB has the little retainer notches facing to the base plate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

I think my example is typical for most trains designed for Powered Up.

 

Yes, indeed. USB isn'really unsable. It's much too big, too long and so on.
And the connector is placed wrong, as your picture shows you have to remove the complete box to use the plug.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

22 hours ago, TuffTuffTuff said:

- the 4 power ports directing to the sides are impractial for 6 studs wide trains

- I would prefer one single centered port  (or maybe 2) instead of four, you can still stack them

The PF box looks great. However, as per the above quote, the port orientation is not good...

 

21 hours ago, keybrickone said:

Fair point! What if I rotate the two on the front edge 90° (so that the cables face away from the narrow side of the hub)?

The PF connectors require at least a 2x3 footprint due to the way the wires come in

t02.jpg

Also, assuming one is using the IR receiver, for most applications one would only need a single port. The PF LiPo had a power level setting with the orange dial so that you could eliminate using the IR receiver, but I don't know if many train builders actually used that function though. Since you can stack PF plugs there really isn't a need for more than one power output. If you did support variable power then perhaps replacing the green button in the above photo with a second plug at opposite polarity to the first might be nice. But all of that adds to the price and the battery box is likely to be expensive. So I THINK a single output without the functionality of the orange dial would be fine.

To be a one-to-one replacement for the PF battery keeping the PF output in the same spot would be helpful.

What might be an easy and attractive variant though would be to have studs on the side of the box so that you can cover the sides with tiles. That would be very handy for building "almost" 4 wide hoods with batteries inside.

 

7 hours ago, keybrickone said:

Btw. these can be bought for comparatively little money from Aliexpress, just search for "usb cable ffp" or "usb cable ffc". As you can see they are using the same type of connector I have in mind for the "vertical" version of the power supply block. But it'll definitely take about 2 studs in depth when connected (2x2 plus whatevery space you need to route the cable).

Since these cables are an obvious extension for your product, you might be well served buying a few dozen yourself and offer them for resale at a markup on your site as an addon. Presumably you could get them for cheaper in bulk, so even if you sold them at 2x or 3x markup it would wind up being cheaper for your customers (or at least worth the cost in terms of time savings).

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

To be a one-to-one replacement for the PF battery keeping the PF output in the same spot would be helpful.

...and, if you're going to produce a bespoke box top for PF, have the charging socket on the top rather than low down on the side. Maybe also have the option to charge using the 10V wall adapter as well as 5V USB.

I have to say that I'm currently going through all of the available options to decide on the power and control for future builds and I'm not hugely impressed with what's currently available to me. The retirement of the PF LiPo is a blow because I was hoping to use this in conjunction with the SBrick. With the exception of Buwizz, all other options still require some form of power supply or, in the case of PUp, you have to compromise on the number of outputs, and all of the power supply options, including Keybrick One, will require some degree of disassembly of the model to facilitate changing/recharging the batteries. I note that there has been some discussion up-thread about some sort of charging umbilical that ends in a "socket brick", but for me this surely is a must-have.

As a side-note, given that the supply of PF motors will soon dry up, will the makers of third-party power and control soon be offering their products with PUp sockets?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/19/2020 at 4:52 PM, zephyr1934 said:

The PF box looks great. However, as per the above quote, the port orientation is not good...

[....]

So I THINK a single output without the functionality of the orange dial would be fine.

Didn't have time to get to it again. Perhaps next week. Regarding the orange dial: Keybrick already features adjustable power level (3 modes). So there's some of this already included.

On 11/19/2020 at 4:52 PM, zephyr1934 said:

Since these cables are an obvious extension for your product, you might be well served buying a few dozen yourself and offer them for resale at a markup on your site as an addon. Presumably you could get them for cheaper in bulk, so even if you sold them at 2x or 3x markup it would wind up being cheaper for your customers (or at least worth the cost in terms of time savings).

My remark was a hint at where someone could get the cables right now. Sourcing a good product in bulk takes me some time I currently don't have, but it's on my laundry list. As is the "usb port brick" mentioned by "Hod Carrier".

3 hours ago, Hod Carrier said:

...and, if you're going to produce a bespoke box top for PF, have the charging socket on the top rather than low down on the side. Maybe also have the option to charge using the 10V wall adapter as well as 5V USB.

Not easily feasible, because it would required routing another power pin via the contact plate on the side which is limitied by the space I can allocate to the pogo pins and contacts on the mating side in the "PF-Top". Sadly the way TLC decided to design the hub didn't leave us many options all things considered.

3 hours ago, Hod Carrier said:

As a side-note, given that the supply of PF motors will soon dry up, will the makers of third-party power and control soon be offering their products with PUp sockets?

This will be tough from a legal stand point. The PUP connector system is currently under patent protection, so unless somebody manages to navigate around that one it's a monopoly for TLC.

Having that said, we are getting very ready to send out the first units to all those who preordered:

The foam inserts are prepared, we're now waiting for the 3D printed cases (delivery scheduled for Tuesday) and the labels for the box. Here's a sneak preview of how thing will look like :sweet:

20201120_170332.jpg

20201120_170433.jpg

20201120_170541.jpg

There are some minor changes vs. the label which is currently in production, but contents and foam inlay are final. If everything goes to plan we should have shipped all units by the first week of December.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, keybrickone said:

Didn't have time to get to it again. Perhaps next week. Regarding the orange dial: Keybrick already features adjustable power level (3 modes). So there's some of this already included.

I would imagine that most train builders would use the KB either for the IR receiver or the SBrick, so the orange dial is probably unnecessary in the first place. I would think that focusing on the PUP version makes the most sense anyway.

 

22 hours ago, keybrickone said:

My remark was a hint at where someone could get the cables right now. Sourcing a good product in bulk takes me some time I currently don't have, but it's on my laundry list. As is the "usb port brick" mentioned by "Hod Carrier".

Oh yes I understood that, I was just suggesting you have "coming soon" or something like that on your web page. Telling people that one can get them independently is a great thing too, e.g.,

On 11/20/2020 at 7:52 AM, Hod Carrier said:

...and, if you're going to produce a bespoke box top for PF, have the charging socket on the top rather than low down on the side. Maybe also have the option to charge using the 10V wall adapter as well as 5V USB.

Like Hod I would love a "one to one" replacement for the PF battery box, but I'm sure I can figure out how to work with a USB output with the the wire sticking out one end. The fact that the PF version is a simple retrofit is great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

Yippie ah yeeh

2 Keybricks were just shipped to me

 

Yes, we shipped out most of the orders yesterday, now we are waiting for a delivery of the contact plate pcbs for the last 6 of the 40 "first served" units as there was a manufacturing defect in a few of these sadly.

That same box should contain a few prototype pcbs of the wide range ac/dc input charger we wrote about previously (two versions; one as a separate brick like in the renderings above, one to plug in directly into Keybrick). And another small-ish idea we had regarding the whole PUP / PF compatibility ordeal...

We are now back to planning how we want to proceed; the likelihood of another slightly bigger batch of Keybrick Ones is very high, and there might be a Keybrick Two in prep ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, keybrickone said:

Yes, we shipped out most of the orders yesterday, now we are waiting for a delivery of the contact plate pcbs for the last 6 of the 40 "first served" units as there was a manufacturing defect in a few of these sadly.

That same box should contain a few prototype pcbs of the wide range ac/dc input charger we wrote about previously (two versions; one as a separate brick like in the renderings above, one to plug in directly into Keybrick). And another small-ish idea we had regarding the whole PUP / PF compatibility ordeal...

We are now back to planning how we want to proceed; the likelihood of another slightly bigger batch of Keybrick Ones is very high, and there might be a Keybrick Two in prep ?

Mine got shipped out today.

What would the changes for keybrick two be?

Also, please announce it a few months in advance so that I can start to save up :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The "two" (not quite sure this will be the final name) will be something very similar but for the Technic hub (4 port one).

Currently on the engineering whishlist for that one:

  • USB type C for charging
  • Type C port should be able to act as a power source (optionally)
  • About the same usable capacity as 6x AA while keeping weight down
  • Evaluating how far we can push the "boost mode" on the Technic Hub

Looking forward to hear what you all think of Keybrick One first ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, keybrickone said:

The "two" (not quite sure this will be the final name) will be something very similar but for the Technic hub (4 port one).

Currently on the engineering whishlist for that one:

  • USB type C for charging
  • Type C port should be able to act as a power source (optionally)
  • About the same usable capacity as 6x AA while keeping weight down
  • Evaluating how far we can push the "boost mode" on the Technic Hub

Looking forward to hear what you all think of Keybrick One first ;)

Would love a significant boost for my Volvo dumper :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just tried one of my keybricks I received today. The packaging is good and the case is fine, too.

I love the constant power plus in boost mode. Inclines are not an issue anymore. I just could add two more custom wagons to my train compared when running on black eneloops. However, it requires at least one additional weight brick inside of a locomotive to compensate the low weight :-) otherwise you will loose traction. 

Thanks a lot for such a great addition to my train layout.

I hope for that power functions battery case top cause most of my trains will remain on that system for various reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, TuffTuffTuff said:

Just tried one of my keybricks I received today. The packaging is good and the case is fine, too.

I love the constant power plus in boost mode. Inclines are not an issue anymore. I just could add two more custom wagons to my train compared when running on black eneloops. However, it requires at least one additional weight brick inside of a locomotive to compensate the low weight :-) otherwise you will loose traction. 

Thanks a lot for such a great addition to my train layout.

I hope for that power functions battery case top cause most of my trains will remain on that system for various reasons.

Happy to read you seem to like it ? the PF top is currently awaiting a bit of rework considering the feedback from above, but we will probably have test samples in January.

I guess a lot more keybricks will reach their destination in the next few days ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, keybrickone said:

Happy to read you seem to like it ? the PF top is currently awaiting a bit of rework considering the feedback from above, but we will probably have test samples in January.

I guess a lot more keybricks will reach their destination in the next few days ?

Just an idea, I'm not sure if someone mentioned it already.

It would be cool if the PF top would work with normal batteries in the lego PUP battery compartment, too. That way we would have a modular power source system.

Edited by Tcm0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tcm0 said:

Just an idea, I'm not sure if someone mentioned it already.

It would be cool if the PF top would work with normal batteries in the lego PUP battery compartment, too. That way we would have a modular power source system.

That will definitely  be a possibility. Nothing I can think of in the PF top would require a Keybrick to sit below. That being said, i still need to check if the contracts will work properly (at all actually, it's a bit of an "off label" use of contracts designed for removable phone batteries originally)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One idea for the PF top: if used with keybrick one base the empty space could above the battery could be used with optional weights that can be inserted.

That way you could improve traction if needed.

Would that be possible?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My KeyBrickOne just arrived today (haven't opened the box yet) - to the midwest US. Thanks guys!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mine arrived today (for whatever reason the delivery from southern germany to northern germany takes longer than the delivery to midwest US).
I suppose that all have a sticker saying "1 of 40"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tcm0 said:

Mine arrived today (for whatever reason the delivery from southern germany to northern germany takes longer than the delivery to midwest US).
I suppose that all have a sticker saying "1 of 40"?

Yes, perhaps we should have printed it as in "one of 40". Didn't make sense from a packing process from our side to try and match the serial number.

As for the shipping durations, all were not shipped exactly at the same time, and multiple carriers were involved, so thing vary. I think Phil got his via UPS which guaranteed 4 days when it was sent off.

DPD and DHL are currently experiencing huge delays here. Had a package taking Tuesday->Wednesday for a mere 450km. But that how things go at the moment.

The last orders will be shipped tomorrow morning by the way. The aforementioned PCBs got delivered only this afternoon via DHL express after sitting at customs for longer that they should have...

Anyhow. I sincerely hope all of you enjoy your Keybricks! :classic:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, keybrickone said:

Tuesday->Wednesday for a mere 450km.

One day is not >that< bad, is it? Unless you paid for package-pickup and direct-courier-service-same-day-delivery ... starting at about 60€ :pir_laugh2:

I remember times when one felt so privileged when a package delivered by the Deutsche Post showed up after a week or so of relaxed waiting. And of course you weren't at home that very moment and there was a card in the mail saying: "Can be picked up at your local Post Office on Alpha Centauri - but not today. Office hours are Mo - Fr, 9 - 16 h, i.e. when you are at work. Will be sent back when not picked up after seven days. And it is all your fault."

And during these days the drivers need to pay special attention because of all the other Santa-Claus-Vans/Trucks out there delivering all sorts of stuff like crazy :laugh:

Best
Thorsten     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't want to complain about anything, just a funny note. It's christmas time so all carriers are at their limits.

Maybe it's also about how many rechargeable batteries can be carried by one truck (but I don't know if you declared them as such. They had no sticker like shipments from amazon sometimes have).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Toastie said:

One day is not >that< bad, is it? Unless you paid for package-pickup and direct-courier-service-same-day-delivery .

Should have stated that it was a whole week of transit. It arrived with the customer today... departed our shop last week on Tuesday 10:00... the wait wasn't funny because the tracking didn't get updated till yesterday. It's really a mess the last few days :wacko:

 

20 minutes ago, Tcm0 said:

I didn't want to complain about anything, just a funny note. It's christmas time so all carriers are at their limits.

Maybe it's also about how many rechargeable batteries can be carried by one truck (but I don't know if you declared them as such. They had no sticker like shipments from amazon sometimes have).

The marking depends on carrier and type of content. Generally for "batteries in devices" (for which keybrick qualifies technically) no marking is required unless more than 4 units are in a package for national shipping. It's becomes a science of it own when you start crossing borders...

Anyhow, I'm pretty happy with the average delivery times so far ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.