Brunojj1's mind-opener - red supercar - free instructions now available for static version

[lcvisser]

12 minutes ago, Bartybum said:

I 100% agree. The forum should also serve the needs of its community

Then I would urge you to contact e.g. @Jim and, if he agrees, to start a discussion about it in the Technic subforum. In that way the community can voice their opinions on the matter.

[Bartybum]

24 minutes ago, astyanax said:

+1

I also feel the community is changing. There are even more gray cases, like @T Lego's Lamborghini Centenario. We discussed the beautiful model, its design, its functionality here on EB. The model can be built from genuine Lego pieces. But guess what, it's also licensed to CaDA. Why would anyone feel "fooled"?

I feel like that's a bit different however, if only because Thijs first posted his MOC before the CaDA set was announced, so there was a Lego version first. That being said, if Thijs were a veteran and in the same position as Bruno then I would support allowing discussion of his sets in the Technic forums, even if the discussion would inevitably involve some CaDA discussion.

[LvdH]

48 minutes ago, astyanax said:

+1

I also feel the community is changing. There are even more gray cases, like @T Lego's Lamborghini Centenario. We discussed the beautiful model, its design, its functionality here on EB. The model can be built from genuine Lego pieces. But guess what, it's also licensed to CaDA. Why would anyone feel "fooled"?

What Bartybum said, and I feel the need to add that the model Tlego showed was completely built with Lego, except the wheels obviously. He also sells the instructions on Rebrickable so fans aren’t forced to go to the dark side. 
Although with the rarity of the pieces required... it’s getting near impossible to build a LEGO version. 

[roeleman]

Is it possible to start a new topic to have this discussion, it's also not according forum rules its a off-topic topic:

-> Posting, spam and off topic topics: Off topic posts can be great fun between friends, but they do run the risk of making a topic unreadable to other members. We ask you to try to stick to the thread topic.

[astyanax]

Thanks @Bartybum and @LvdH, those are fair points.

[astyanax]

16 minutes ago, roeleman said:

Is it possible to start a new topic to have this discussion, it's also not according forum rules its a off-topic topic

Please excuse me for being obtuse (yet well-intentioned!), but how are we off-topic? The original post made 2 points:

1. A highly respected community member has created a beautiful model -- let's discuss its design and functionality.
2. Said model has been licensed to CaDA for reasons -- let's discuss what the community thinks of this.

If only point 1 had been made and discussed, I assume the thread would not have been flagged and moved out of the Technic subforum. But it has been moved due to point 2, which we have continued to discuss. So it seems to me we're very much on-topic.

PS: As pointed out by @LvdH, point 1 is a bit tricky because the model is using 1 type of panel not available from TLG in the used color (red). Although if rumors of an upcoming Technic Ferrari model (42125) are to be believed, there is a good chance that they will be produced in red very soon.

[Jim]

On 9/21/2020 at 10:09 AM, Peppermint_M said:

As some have been offended by the fact this is not LEGO, I will have to move it to community where we keep the other Clone Brick brands.

Thanks for chiming in Pep. Since this is an edge case and I'd like to continue the discussion, I will move it back to Technic.

[Bartybum]

2 hours ago, LvdH said:

Although with the rarity of the pieces required... it’s getting near impossible to build a LEGO version. 

Smells like time to invest in a 3D printer hehehe. I'm sure there's gotta be some way to rip 3D models from Stud.io and convert them to .STL

[Gray Gear]

The building block market is changing, and LEGO is going to face even more capable and high quality competitors in the future than they are now.

This forum will have to decide wether it will it will serve every Brick lover (no matter the brand) or only the LEGO fans.

I for myself love building with these little plastic pieces no matter the brand, I even mix LEGO with other brands. I cannot see why cada&co should not fit in this community.

[lcvisser]

2 hours ago, astyanax said:

PS: As pointed out by @LvdH, point 1 is a bit tricky because the model is using 1 type of panel not available from TLG in the used color (red). Although if rumors of an upcoming Technic Ferrari model (42125) are to be believed, there is a good chance that they will be produced in red very soon.

A question to those of you in favour of allowing CaDA models here:-

Currently, CaDA seems to offer only pieces that are functional copies of LEGO models, but may have different colors. Hence, a CaDA model, like the model in this topic, can be recreated fully in LEGO, albeit maybe not in the exact same colors.

What if CaDA starts introducing pieces that do not exist in the LEGO inventory, e.g. even-length beams, or 5x5 panels, etc.? Do you still feel such models belong here? (This is the slippery slope I'm afraid of, @Bartybum).

[brunojj1]

On 9/24/2020 at 4:08 PM, Jim said:

Thanks for chiming in Pep. Since this is an edge case and I'd like to continue the discussion, I will move it back to Technic.

Thank you very much, Jim! And thanks to everybody for the respect and warm welcome, I didn´t know yet I´m an old "veteran" already .

Sorry for all the trouble, but we see the entertainment level on the other hand .

I´d be happy if instructions and partslist were available for everybody, so you could build your own Lego version of it. In case we will publish information here asap. At least in black or white it should be possible from Lego parts only, everybody knows we are missing the 13x3 curved panels in red ever since.

Let´s discuss the technical aspects of the car, e.g. the gearbox. To make it work under load, moving a heavy car, without gears grinding or skipping, I experimented till I came up with the shown solution:

You could make a simpler version of it for a manual car and keep the gear indicator (round brick on top) as manual shifter. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by brunojj1

[Bartybum]

26 minutes ago, Ludo Visser said:

What if CaDA starts introducing pieces that do not exist in the LEGO inventory, e.g. even-length beams, or 5x5 panels, etc.? Do you still feel such models belong here? (This is the slippery slope I'm afraid of, @Bartybum).

What if, what if... This is a discussion to be had if it actually happens. The problem doesn't even exist yet.

5 minutes ago, brunojj1 said:

I knew it´s not politically correct

Odd choice of words there

Edited September 24, 2020 by Bartybum

[brickphisto]

26 minutes ago, Ludo Visser said:

Currently, CaDA seems to offer only pieces that are functional copies of LEGO models, but may have different colors.

In fact there are quite a few CaDA parts that are not produced by Lego, Technic parts as well as system parts.

[fosamax]

legophisto replied quicker but I was writing the same idea meanwhile. There's technic parts like beams with alterning holes as well as pins on the ends.

[LvdH]

14 minutes ago, brunojj1 said:

Let´s discuss the technical aspects of the car, e.g. the gearbox. To make it work under load, moving a heavy car, without gears grinding or skipping, I experimented till I came up with the shown solution:

I have to say I was really impressed by how smooth is all moves. In all the gears it doesn't skip or grind, or make any other weird noises. The shifting still hasn't failed me either and the working paddles is really, really cool. 

I also wanted to share this photoshoot I did with your P1. 

More photos are available here: https://www.bricksafe.com/pages/LvdH/red-supercar

[brunojj1]

14 minutes ago, Bartybum said:

Odd choice of words there

I don´t know what you mean, I was simply trying to express as clear as possible that I didn´t want to create the trouble. However, I won´t contribute anything to the legalistic debate - the referee made a decision and that´s it.

7 minutes ago, legophisto said:

In fact there are quite a few CaDA parts that are not produced by Lego, Technic parts as well as system parts.

My favourite parts from CaDA are the remote control and battery box with 4 channels, connected by BT. That´s what I was dreaming to have released by Lego, but they didn´t. 

I know many are complaining the movement is 0 - 100% and nothing between, but I still prefer it above an annoying smartphone app. I hope the evolution of the device will come some day with gradually responding motors.

[captainmib]

I think @brunojj1 created an impressive model.

If it wasn't presented here (CaDa or not) I and many others would have missed it.

I would be very happy if I build models good enough to be noticed by a manufacturer, have my model produced into a set, and maybe make some money.

 

The point i'm trying to make is:

A) Lego is getting more competition, which is good. This model is cheaper, drives remoted controlled with a 4-speed gearbox (on bluetooth) which is impressive. I haven't seen Lego do this.

B) This is a total different situation then with Lepin - which just steals designs. The parts probably don't have a copyright. The set is produced with the designer.

C) Shooting down everything that isn't pure 100% Lego is just nitpicking. Let's not do that. We are people that enjoy a hobby with great potential. 

 

I'm seeing myself buying less Lego sets every year. The V22 Osprey was a set I was interested in, we all know how that ended.

The Lamborghini is a nice set, but very expensive, and doens't do much function wise.

Maybe some competition is good for Lego...

[amorti]

2 hours ago, Ludo Visser said:

What if CaDA starts introducing pieces that do not exist in the LEGO inventory

They do have a few pieces you won't find from TLG, and they're pieces which are really useful such as 5,7,9,11 stud length beams like this, with alternating holes.

3 hours ago, Jim said:

I'd like to continue the discussion, I will move it back to Technic.

Thanks Jim, for the open-minded approach.

1 hour ago, Bartybum said:

Odd choice of words there

English is his second language, think in German you'd say politik, which doesn't quite translate the same. Still, you got the meaning.

1 hour ago, fosamax said:

There's technic parts like beams with alterning holes as well as pins on the ends.

I didn't realise they did these in 4L too.

I've never used these parts but I've wanted them frequently 

1 hour ago, brunojj1 said:

My favourite parts from CaDA are the remote control and battery box 

I really wish they'd put one of the sticks as left-right :/

11 minutes ago, captainmib said:

This is a total different situation then with Lepin - which just steals designs. 

Maybe some competition is good for Lego...

I agree totally and 100% with everything you've written here. 

Lego will remain the original Technic, but it's good if they're kept on their toes.

Monopolies are never good for a consumer; you get to eat whatever they feed you and pay the asking price. 

[amorti]

2 hours ago, Gray Gear said:

I for myself love building with these little plastic pieces no matter the brand, I even mix LEGO with other brands. I cannot see why cada&co should not fit in this community.

You can speak for me too.

But I do understand that in a Venn diagram, it's a circle of "builds with plastic bricks" with  a circle of "only builds with Lego" inside. There's always going to be some who'll never leave Billund. And that's fine, some people only had Apple since the days when they made the original smart phone. But I think it's a shame that a) those guys are missing cool models at value prices, and b) they should withhold that from other members.

Let's not push our luck with "&co" though, as you quickly get to stolen MOC brands including plenty stolen from members here... CaDA is a much easier argument to make.

Edited September 24, 2020 by amorti

[SNIPE]

Here's a problem that I see:

If more and more companies copy lego's part molds,

Then how do we tell what is genuine lego ?.

No rules stipulate that they have to be the same quality.

And, a butt ton of lego parts do not have the lego logo printed on it so "just print the lego logo on real lego parts" is not really a solution.

I don't want the lego brand to perish because of people mistaking bad quality parts for real lego.

idk if this reply is off topic or not, so pls delete if so.

Edited September 24, 2020 by SNIPE

[onzenuub]

2 hours ago, brunojj1 said:

 

I´d be happy if instructions and partslist were available for everybody, so you could build your own Lego version of it. 

This would be great, it is a stunning car. 

[Gray Gear]

38 minutes ago, amorti said:

You can speak for me too.

Let's not push our luck with "&co" though, as you quickly get to stolen MOC brands including plenty stolen from members here... CaDA is a much easier argument to make.

I know the feeling, my Honda NSX MOC is being sold on Aliexpress without my permission as well...

I meant like Cobi and Xingbao, CADA isn't the only company not stealing MOCs.

8 minutes ago, SNIPE said:

Here's a problem that I see:

If more and more companies cooy lego's part molds

Then how do we tell what is genuine lego ?.

No rules stipulate that they have to be the same quality.

And, a butt ton of lego parts do not have the lego logo printed on it so "just print the lego logo on real lego parts" is not really a solution.

I dont know which parts I posess are genuine LEGO, or GOBricks, Cada, DECOOL... and I dont care. It is a brick, and it will do the same job no matter where it came from lol.

Just avoid mixing low quality Bricks into your collection and you'll be fine.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Gray Gear

[howitzer]

I, for one, would have missed this topic had it been posted in the Community section instead of here, because I don't read that section.

While I'm not generally very interested in cars, I also find this very beautifully crafted supercar, surely among the very best of any Technic style supercars ever and I'd be really interested in examining it's inner functions better.

I think the discussion about the change of the construction toy market is very important for this community and also in the bigger picture and I'd be interested in joining that discussion, though I think it's beyond the scope of this topic. I haven't formed a strong opinion myself yet, though for now I'm staying "common sense purist" - no parts from other manufacturers except for hose, string and such and SBrick and such to really bring out the best from Lego. (Note that I'm not saying my way is the best, everyone should do as they feel right, that's just the way I want to go about it for now.)

I hope that we, as a community can resolve this issue to a satisfactory conclusion - and I hope that TLG can keep up with the competition without compromising quality.

[amorti]

26 minutes ago, SNIPE said:

 ton of lego parts do not have the lego logo printed on it 

Are there really that many? Genuine question. On most it's pretty prominent, and I know that if you look close enough, and you really need a magnifying glass, even Technic pins have the logo on them. 

17 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

I meant like Cobi and Xingbao, CADA isn't the only company not stealing MOCs.

I dont know which parts I posess are genuine LEGO, or GOBricks, Cada, DECOOL... and I dont care. 

Good point, Sembo also make some self designed models, although I did note their Audi R8 shares a lot of chassis with Madoca's Icarus.

My pieces are the same with Lego, CaDA and MouldKing mixed together. The only ones I keep separate are Lepin. Pins and anything with an axle shape is basically all pure junk. I only didn't throw that stuff out because the panels, beams, and flex axles can be salvaged.

Edited September 24, 2020 by amorti

[lcvisser]

@Jim can the "community future direction"-part of this discussion be split into a separate topic? I agree with @howitzer that the scope of this topic is not suitable for this, indeed, very important discussion...