amorti

Brunojj1's mind-opener - red supercar - free instructions now available for static version

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It’s still 7.2 volts according to CaDA, but it has a different electric board. Probably similar difference between V1 and V2 LEGO IR receivers.

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28 minutes ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

I'm intrigued! I did some research, and it seems that this new battery is in one set so far, but I can't find any specifications on it. Are you able to give any more information? Mainly I'm curious if it has gone above 7.4V or gained proportional control, though I think both are unlikely.

It is the same 7.4V as Lvdh said but can handle motors much better i.e., the new buggy motors. And no, it did not gain proportional control but according to Cada's FB page/group, they are working on it. So, that's a positive.

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Ok, thanks for the information! It sounds pretty interesting, but not perfect yet.

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49 minutes ago, LvdH said:

It’s still 7.2 volts according to CaDA, but it has a different electric board. Probably similar difference between V1 and V2 LEGO IR receivers.

It has more capabilites (amps) and higher overheating threshholds as far as I understand.

 

21 minutes ago, thekoRngear said:

It is the same 7.4V as Lvdh said but can handle motors much better i.e., the new buggy motors. And no, it did not gain proportional control but according to Cada's FB page/group, they are working on it. So, that's a positive.

6 minutes ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

Ok, thanks for the information! It sounds pretty interesting, but not perfect yet.

At least you can be safe more likely not having them going up in flames if handled incorrectly as shown in the depiction. 

Stay tuned about the new CONTROLLER, updates coming soon!

Edited by brunojj1

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5 minutes ago, brunojj1 said:

It has more capabilites (amps) and higher overheating threshholds as far as I understand.

 

At least you can be safe more likely not having them going up in flames if handled incorrectly as shown in the depiction. 

Stay tuned about the new CONTROLLER, updates coming soon!

I am pumped up both for the new battery-box and the controller! Umm....also an update for your next supercar would be awesome

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Just finished getting through all 23 pages of this topic, which I bookmarked a while ago.  Got together some spare cash and bought the motorized version.  I can’t wait for it to arrive; I’ll be like a kid in a candy store!

 

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I understand you, I was in the same situation in April 2021, and it definitely was a most enjoyable build!

The only problem with the motorized version is that the manual does not exist in PDF format: I had to use the paper version, which I am really not used to anymore !

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2 hours ago, Chmashdehjare said:

Just finished getting through all 23 pages of this topic, which I bookmarked a while ago.  Got together some spare cash and bought the motorized version.  I can’t wait for it to arrive; I’ll be like a kid in a candy store!

Enjoy the build!

If you take anything from this thread, let it be to use CaDA's/Bruno's tip sheet, a 5.5 axle in the steering wheel, and block the gearbox during construction so it's lined up at the end.

The one from Bruno about changing the gears at the back of the gearbox is also good, it will go faster and the amazing gearbox will be more purposeful, as it can't pull away in highest gear anymore.

If you have one, I'd also say to put a Lego differential and 20 tooth gears in, as the CaDA diff may be weak with extended play and CaDA 20t gears don't run smooth with a Lego diff.

Edited by amorti

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Today is 9th Feb, my C61042 is one year old!
The gearbox is amazing it does not show any gradual louder noise over time or any skip/cracking.
For the differential I kept the Cada one and changed the 20t Double Bevel with Lego one. The Lego 20t meshes smoothly with the differential. You love it when you building it. You will love it more after you've built it.

Edited by thekoRngear

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Just got mine in the mail, so excited. 

I was noticing in Sariel’s review and his build video that he was gloved up. I’m not likely to follow suit, but was wondering if that was a reflection of concern over lead in the parts. I’ve heard that expressed as a concern for non-Lego out of China. 
 

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You know, if you move the two buwizzes outwards there is 3L, enough space in which to move the steering motor, and then there should be room for a drive-neutural-reverse selector.

This is my idea when I finish the model. I'm on the page where you add the bevel gear pairs for the steering wheel currently. Maybe the real car does not have a dedicated DNR selector lever and its built into the flappy paddle shifter unit but oh well :P

Edited by SNIPE

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57 minutes ago, Chmashdehjare said:

 Sariel’s gloved up. 

He has a slim condition and doesn't want people to comment about it. Said so in here somewhen.

43 minutes ago, SNIPE said:

 add the bevel gear pairs for the steering wheel 

Don't forget to swap the steering wheel axle for a 5.5, or you're in Trouble if it falls out.

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Thank you Bruno, Cada and people on this forum, this thing made me feel like a kid again :)

Been probably 35 years since I last touched any kind of Lego or other bricks, but few weeks ago a coworker brought a question about building stuff from Lego.

I still have my creations from back then, not a technic, but ... well its still out there to decide:

Edri7CH.jpg

Fo97NXc.jpg

So with that I remembered the moment seeing Lego Bugatti set in a store 2 years ago and thinking its great, but really not cheap, so I set on a quest to surf youtube, guess what I found :)

8DmvR96.jpg

Yup, it took 3 days to arrive from Amazon Germany and another few days to put together ... wow

H51hXAC.jpg

GBiNvkE.jpg

a72XcEv.jpg

Yes, I made back end straight, as I really didn't feel that lip and also shortened nose axles, so there were no gaps.

 

Since there were some extra bits and me not being keen on frame above engine and hood freely flapping around when turned, I put few of those to use.

Also made pins for hood and secured the battery/receiver in place.

Changed the location of hood support to outside, as it was pushing the hood up, if left on inside.

1ip4vEc.jpg

L4NKaDH.jpg

2eM6owV.jpg

Now it can join my other RC collection

iJQazvQ.jpg

 

As I already saw, from other people building it, that some connections might not be so secure, I got myself some quick drying nail clear coat, to put it on those few problematic 2 length axles, let it dry, push together and carry on.

This was the only problem I had, a slightly defective axle (seems that machine run out of material), but since it was still good under the gear, I just left it as is.

VJWIXng.jpg

 

One thing on receiver and papers stating to be careful about choosing the charger:

Plugged it into 1A and then into 2A charger, no change in current:

WJdig1H.jpg

So I'll just use what lands in my hand, to charge it :)

 

I also used silicone grease in wheel hubs, and it runs great, will also spray some silicone lubricant in gearbox if needed.

 

Cheers from Slovenia

Uros

 

 

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On 1/22/2022 at 10:03 AM, brunojj1 said:

Regarding battery boxes in general here come some powerfull good news, along with the (very powerfull!) new buggy motors: 

640x348.png

I´m challenging everybody for the ULTIMATE MOD on my MOC by using these new devices!

Well, what can I say... I'm not very good at resisting a challenge! :pir_laugh2:

First question: do buggy motors fit in the Ferrari? Let's find out...

800x565.png

Ah yes they do! Right behind the wall behind the seats, there's enough space, such that the bulky part of the motors won't collide with rear wheels or bodywork. Did Bruno foresee their usage?!

800x519.png

The buggy motors' outer outputs can be aligned with the two powered axles going into the gearbox. The gearbox has to be moved a few studs toward the rear, no problem there.

640x459.png

The gearbox can be encased in 7x11 frames for extra sturdiness. The fake engine can be driven separately from one of the motors' inner output, via a worm wheel to the 24-tooth gear.

I've created a simple yet strong mule with the same wheelbase as the Ferrari, for testing purposes (and color vomit as dazzle camouflage hehe!). No steering or suspension; it's just for testing the drivetrain while retaining easy access to internals. Weight can be added on top to simulate the final model.

800x600.jpg

Test run 1: Wow that's fast!! But also some clicking... need to investigate.

Test run 2: Crack! Oops... one of the buggy motors suicided! :pir-murder:

Okay so this will be continued as soon as the replacement motor comes in the mail. :pir-sweet:

Many thanks to both Bruno and CaDA for supporting and assisting!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, astyanax said:

Many thanks to both Bruno and CaDA for supporting and assisting!

For clarification: I get a bunch of free stuff from CaDA and sent some of it privately to my friend Bas (@astyanax) and arranged another free set for him, simply to find out if such a crazy experiment would be successfull, having not much time myself. That doesn´t mean CaDA is a charity organisation.

@astyanax: Thanks for sharing your fun with us :excited:! That´s crazy! I´ve had my doubts if that is possible at all, keeping the gearbox working. I don´t dare to ask for a video :facepalm:.. Maybe you should get rid of some gears in between there or even the entire gearbox! I have another idea to bypass the issue with the (non-proportional) controllers: use some white clutch gears, arranged in multiple quantities on one axle and there you have a smoother acceleration sparing the gears inside the buggy motors. One should realize they are much stronger than Lego buggy motors, though using the same kind of plastic gears inside (I don´t know, but suspect it).

Edited by brunojj1

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Exciting stuff:excited:

These new CaDa buggy motors make as much noise as the real car when redlining at 8000 RPM, making it seem even faster.:laugh: The heavy duty differential comes in handy, becease it can handle more torque and reduces the final ratio at the wheels. The overal solution looks quite satisfying! Looking forward to seeing this develope.:thumbup:

On the side, I was wondering the other day if the two ouputs of the buggy motors could be used in a clever way to make a compact 8 speed transmission. Basically using a 4 speed gearbox with a larger spread of gear ratios and using the 1:1.35 (approx.) ratio between the inner and outer buggy motor ouputs as increments of these speeds. This in such way that e.g. gear 1 in the 4 speed gearbox combined with the inner (faster) buggy motor output, is slower than gear 2 in the 4 speed gearbox combined with the outer (slower) buggy motor output. This can be realised for all speeds by using for instance this 4 speed gearbox by Crowkillers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bMFSqc8_cc ). In order to sequentially shift trough all speeds the buggy motor ouputs need to be switched every shift while the 4 speed gearbox shifts alternatingly, so you could say it has somewhat similar behaviour compared to a dual clutch gearbox.

...annyways, what you are working on seems like serious challenge, and my lego brain too can't resist the joy of discovering the answsers to these crazy and bold ideas!:wink:

 

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50 minutes ago, brunojj1 said:

Maybe you should get rid of some gears in between there or even the entire gearbox!

Getting rid of the gearbox would of course be a pity! But the question remains, whether plastic gearbox components can ever handle the force of 2 buggy motors in a 3kg model...

Without gearbox, the best arrangement, I think, is one that gets rid of all gears altogether, even the diff:

800x414.png

The above is a render of the drivetrain of a 2600-part supercar which I'll soon present in a separate thread. The point is: the only way to be 100% assured of robustness is to only use the heavy-duty CV joints and nothing else.

85x85p.jpg85x85p.jpg85x85p.jpg

But, for the Ferrari, I'm not that desperate yet... :pir-blush:

58 minutes ago, T Lego said:

using the 1:1.35 (approx.) ratio between the inner and outer buggy motor ouputs as increments of these speeds

If that makes things easier (maybe not), the ratio can be effectively increased, like so:

800x494.png

Caveat: the driving ring must be held very, very firmly in place to avoid skipping and clicking.

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2 hours ago, astyanax said:

The point is: the only way to be 100% assured of robustness is to only use the heavy-duty CV joints and nothing else.

85x85p.jpg85x85p.jpg85x85p.jpg

 

You are wrong on this one! Don´t forget we have the metal U-joints from CaDA which would perfectly fit in here, doubled on each side! The so-called heavy-duty CV joints shown above will wear out after 10 minutes.

 

2 hours ago, astyanax said:

But, for the Ferrari, I'm not that desperate yet... :pir-blush:

If that makes things easier (maybe not), the ratio can be effectively increased, like so:

800x494.png

Caveat: the driving ring must be held very, very firmly in place to avoid skipping and clicking.

I would love to see something like that! You could try to use the

1) double-trouble scheme with the orange gear selectors.

2) white 3L connectors with ridges to hold the driving ring in place.

3) more rubber bands to hold the shifting shaft.

4) the old changeover catch, reinforced by a shock absorber.

5) just the servo, reduced by 1/3.

 

Side note: I´m missing both the great contributions from old veterans and experts like @Sariel, as well as some heated discussions around subjects (not ad hominem) from time to time.

 

3 hours ago, T Lego said:

On the side, I was wondering the other day if the two ouputs of the buggy motors could be used in a clever way to make a compact 8 speed transmission.

PLEASE move on with some ideas of that sort, I would love to see all kind of motorized gearboxes - you would definitely put a milestone in any direction if being successfull!

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Loving the work done here with the buggy motors and the new 12 and 20 T spur gears

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10 hours ago, brunojj1 said:

One should realize they are much stronger than Lego buggy motors, though using the same kind of plastic gears inside (I don´t know, but suspect it).

Can you direct me to any info regarding the difference in power between CADA and Lego buggy motors?

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

Can you direct me to any info regarding the difference in power between CADA and Lego buggy motors?

I´m sorry I have no deeper background as expert or engineer. In general one can safely say that CaDA buggy motors are stronger, spinning faster than Lego motors, which has its advantages and downsides. Surely they are noisier which is kinda logical. IMHO there are no sources reliable to 100%, but I´ll try to explain. There are variables such as voltage and load/resistance which are unknown in some declarations. First we have Philo´s homepage as a good source when it comes to all kind of Lego motors characteristics. Then there is Sariel´s gear calculator where you can see theoretical output values of different gear redactions combined with the Lego motors. Before the update there were different rpm data related to 7V and 9V which is a significant difference, now we have only 9V for comparison. When it comes to the CaDA motors, we have the data from the set C64053W where they are being used. I´ve had written down the exact rpm from a different source some time ago, but don´t remember where it was, so I have no reference. It would be nice to have an independent comparison together with the BuWizz characteristics added as well. I have preliminaryly summarized my collected data as following, maybe it can serve as some orientation anyway:

  LEGO buggy motor CaDA racing motor
  Philo´s homepage Sariel´s gear calculator CaDA homepage unknown source
  9V 9V 7,4 V ?
inner output (r/pm) 1700 (no-load) 1069 1069 1800 1860
outer output (r/pm) 1240 (no-load) 780 780 ? 1344

 

P.S.: let´s discuss it further in the generic topic.

 

Edited by brunojj1

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Happy to report positive progress!

On 4/2/2022 at 1:34 PM, astyanax said:

I've created a simple yet strong mule with the same wheelbase as the Ferrari, for testing purposes (and color vomit as dazzle camouflage hehe!). No steering or suspension; it's just for testing the drivetrain while retaining easy access to internals. Weight can be added on top to simulate the final model.

[PHOTO]

Test run 1: Wow that's fast!! But also some clicking... need to investigate.

Test run 2: Crack! Oops... one of the buggy motors suicided! :pir-murder:

Okay so this will be continued as soon as the replacement motor comes in the mail. :pir-sweet:

My previous writing may have been unclear: the clicking and suiciding happened with a previous version (not the mule pictured), which was following more closely the way the gearbox was connected in the CaDA model, and using the original diff. Apparently the original setup was unable to handle the force of the 2 buggy motors, and may have had undue friction causing some overload.

While waiting for the replacement motor, I built the pictured mule, encasing the gearbox in 7x11 frames and replacing the diff by the new 5-gear one. This mule weighs almost 1kg including electronics. My (disassembled) build of the Ferrari with 4 PF L motors and 2 BuWizz 2.0 weighed almost 3kg.

So when the replacement motor arrived yesterday, I made a few more test runs...

Test run 2.1: Just the 1kg mule, 1st gear... All fine! No clicking. Phew. :pir-grin:

Because I didn't implement remote-controlled shifting, I have to start from stand-still each time. Dare I start from higher gears...?

Test run 2.2: Just the 1kg mule, 2nd gear... No clicking. 3rd gear... No clicking. 4th gear... LAUNCH! Wow that was fast -- no hesitation, no clicking -- it just flies away!

Test run 2.3: Added 1kg of rice on top of the mule. Start in 1st gear... No clicking. Start in 2nd gear... No clicking. Start in 3rd gear... No clicking. Start in 4th gear... still no clicking -- still just flies off!

Test run 2.4: Added another 1kg of rice on top of the mule, now at 3kg total. Start in 1st gear... No clicking!

640x480.jpg

Well that's the benchmark passed. The idea is, of course, that the model should be able to start in 1st gear, and then while driving one should shift up. If one were able to start in highest gear, what's the point of having a (remote-controlled) gearbox?!

Still, of course, I wanna know how far this can be pushed... What are our margins? Just fingers crossed we don't break any more motors..!

Test run 2.5: With the 3kg mule as pictured. Start in 2nd gear... The motors hesitate for a moment, as if power was cut for a split second, but then accelerates again. No clicking. Start in 3rd gear... Again the hesitation, but overcomes it. No clicking. Start in 4th gear... Power cuts. Again... Power cuts. PERFECT! :pir-huzzah2:

Okay so at full weight, we can start in 1st gear but not in 4th gear, giving purpose to the gearbox.

On 4/2/2022 at 2:42 PM, brunojj1 said:

I don´t dare to ask for a video :facepalm:.. 

I'll make a video, don't worry. :pir-blush: It's quite funny seeing packs of rice propelling through the man-cave....

===

Oh, one caveat: The mule is built from Lego parts. Any idea we might expect CaDA gears and driving rings to have equal strength?

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@astyanax Thanks again for the entertainment! It looks like you are getting somewhere and I am looking forward to seeing the video!

5 hours ago, astyanax said:

Any idea we might expect CaDA gears and driving rings to have equal strength?

I am not sure about the current CaDa parts, but I presume they are quite similar. 

New carbon fibre gears and axles are being developed as we speak, so soon the limits can be pushed even further! It would be cool te see helical gears in the future as well since they are ideal for high load applications. Their slanted teeth result in more gradual contact and less friction. Though they will bring some disadvantages such as axial thrust and increased gearbox assembly difficulty.

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@brunojj1 carbon gears! I'm excited already.

CaDA old type diffs are inferior as illustrated higher up the thread, but I've had no trouble with anything else. I actually often prefer CaDA's 20t tan gears with their squarer teeth.

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