Brunojj1's mind-opener - red supercar - free instructions now available for static version

[astyanax]

In the tradition of Pimp Up My GT3/Chiron/Sian/Defender, I've published the virtual model with my 'tweaks' to Rebrickable:

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-89859/astyanax/pimp-my-pista-ferrari-488-pista-by-brunojj1/

Hopefully this can serve as a basis for others to get creative. 

@amorti If you think it's appropriate, you could add the above link to the first post?

[SNIPE]

On 10/12/2021 at 8:56 PM, astyanax said:

In the tradition of Pimp Up My GT3/Chiron/Sian/Defender, I've published the virtual model with my 'tweaks' to Rebrickable:

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-89859/astyanax/pimp-my-pista-ferrari-488-pista-by-brunojj1/

Hopefully this can serve as a basis for others to get creative. 

@amorti If you think it's appropriate, you could add the above link to the first post?

omg I love you

Again, I'll try and cram in @anto's 7+R speed gearbox, the paddle shifter from the sian does not move if you drive the orange rotary catches with a motor, which is what I want because this is not a james bond robo-car :D

Edited October 13, 2021 by SNIPE

[astyanax]

@brunojj1 Did you ever consider putting a chain instead of the red 16-tooth gear to connect the 2 gear shift axles? This is just in front of the rear axle:

The red 16-tooth gear used to be in the place of the axle highlighted in purple.

The upshot of this setup would be that it allows that highlighted 4L axle with center stop to be used, which'll be locked in place. Here there used to be an 8L axle, which theoretically has the danger of slipping into the differential. Of course the red 16-tooth gear could've stayed there but I'd be afraid the gray axle connector, which is on the drive axle, would rub against it, causing friction or even spurious gear shifts.

16 hours ago, SNIPE said:

omg I love you

[LvdH]

6 minutes ago, astyanax said:

Did you ever consider putting a chain instead of the red 16-tooth gear to connect the 2 gear shift axles? This is just in front of the rear axle:

I'm not Bruno, but in my experience chains don't work that well in LEGO. I personally only used them a couple of times, but the issues are always the same. For one they are quite weak. It doesn't take much force to separate the links. And with how deep they're buried inside the chassis, fixing it would be a pain. Secondly they tend to be either too loose or too tight. Either resulting in weak transmission or a lot of friction. I can't even imagine the issues CaDA would have. The quality seems to not quite be the same as LEGO so these issues could be even bigger. Gears are definitely my preferred option, which in this case is definitely the best. 

[thekoRngear]

17 hours ago, astyanax said:

In the tradition of Pimp Up My GT3/Chiron/Sian/Defender, I've published the virtual model with my 'tweaks' to Rebrickable:

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-89859/astyanax/pimp-my-pista-ferrari-488-pista-by-brunojj1/

Hopefully this can serve as a basis for others to get creative. 

@amorti If you think it's appropriate, you could add the above link to the first post?

@astyanax   In the rebrickable description it says lots of illegal (or loose) connection are made legal. Some of us cannot even sense/detect if a connection was illegal or not properly. And hence from the LDD file I might not be able to comprehend them. Can you at least point out/specifically tell some of those types of connection so that I can try?

[astyanax]

10 minutes ago, LvdH said:

I'm not Bruno, but in my experience chains don't work that well in LEGO. I personally only used them a couple of times, but the issues are always the same. For one they are quite weak. It doesn't take much force to separate the links. And with how deep they're buried inside the chassis, fixing it would be a pain. Secondly they tend to be either too loose or too tight. Either resulting in weak transmission or a lot of friction. I can't even imagine the issues CaDA would have. The quality seems to not quite be the same as LEGO so these issues could be even bigger. Gears are definitely my preferred option, which in this case is definitely the best. 

Nonetheless @T Lego's Centenario uses a chain in the gear switching setup, and that one is also marketed by CaDA...

I only build with genuine Lego so I can't compare brands, but I've not had problems shifting with the Centenario -- it's super smooth and reliable in my experience. Now, the 488 Pista may be under a lot more stress due to all the motors (I use 4x PF Large). That's why I'm asking whether someone actually tried.

Just now, thekoRngear said:

@astyanax   In the rebrickable description it says lots of illegal (or loose) connection are made legal. Some of us cannot even sense/detect if a connection was illegal or not properly. And hence from the LDD file I might not be able to comprehend them. Can you at least point out/specifically tell some of those types of connection so that I can try?

Yes just look around for frictionless pins and rubber connectors and bands .

It's true that it's often hard to see if a connection is illegal when building only physically. In a virtual model, however, it's easy to spot collisions. LDCad can't bend the plastic.

[thekoRngear]

14 minutes ago, astyanax said:

Yes just look around for frictionless pins and rubber connectors and bands .

It's true that it's often hard to see if a connection is illegal when building only physically. In a virtual model, however, it's easy to spot collisions. LDCad can't bend the plastic.

Got it. Thanks!

[T Lego]

@astyanax Using a chain shouldn't affect the performance much in this setup. The main disadvantage though is that it will be a pain to synchronize the two 16t gears - both needing the same orientation. It's an aspect a designer should consider too if it's to be built by a large amount of (unexperienced) people. Therefore using the cluch gear is undoubtedly the best solution. Unfortunately Lego doensn't produce knob gears with pinhole which would be optimal. Eventhough the axle is ineed not constraint from sliding out and as a result interfering with the differential, it won't be an issue in practice because no forces will be exerted in that direction and friction keeps it in place just fine. 

[brunojj1]

2 hours ago, astyanax said:

@brunojj1 Did you ever consider putting a chain instead of the red 16-tooth gear to connect the 2 gear shift axles? This is just in front of the rear axle:

The red 16-tooth gear used to be in the place of the axle highlighted in purple.

The upshot of this setup would be that it allows that highlighted 4L axle with center stop to be used, which'll be locked in place. Here there used to be an 8L axle, which theoretically has the danger of slipping into the differential. Of course the red 16-tooth gear could've stayed there but I'd be afraid the gray axle connector, which is on the drive axle, would rub against it, causing friction or even spurious gear shifts.

Honestly I wouldn´t consider to use a chain in a RC model. Just imagine one chain element to go loose and soon the rest of if going stuck in the drivetrain .

The way it is you have to synchronize only ONCE and secure by a 5x3 L liftarm in the next step. Lubricate the red gear between if you want . The friction isn´t that severe, even less in relative terms, the higher you go with motorization.

2 hours ago, LvdH said:

I'm not Bruno, but in my experience chains don't work that well in LEGO. I personally only used them a couple of times, but the issues are always the same. For one they are quite weak. It doesn't take much force to separate the links. And with how deep they're buried inside the chassis, fixing it would be a pain. Secondly they tend to be either too loose or too tight. Either resulting in weak transmission or a lot of friction. I can't even imagine the issues CaDA would have. The quality seems to not quite be the same as LEGO so these issues could be even bigger. Gears are definitely my preferred option, which in this case is definitely the best. 

Exactly  !

2 hours ago, astyanax said:

It's true that it's often hard to see if a connection is illegal when building only physically. In a virtual model, however, it's easy to spot collisions. LDCad can't bend the plastic.

LDCad actually can do some tricks, IDK how, should I . I personally can recall 2-3 sections which definitely will cause collisions, such as the front hood meeting with the vertical liftarms - my estimate is about 1/3 of a stud which is not much. Anyway, while I prefer to work with (bending) physical parts and real prototypes instead of digital, nobody was setting standards what´s illegal and not.

1 hour ago, T Lego said:

@astyanax Using a chain shouldn't affect the performance much in this setup. The main disadvantage though is that it will be a pain to synchronize the two 16t gears - both needing the same orientation. It's an aspect a designer should consider too if it's to be built by a large amount of (unexperienced) people. Therefore using the cluch gear is undoubtedly the best solution. Unfortunately Lego doensn't produce knob gears with pinhole which would be optimal. Eventhough the axle is ineed not constraint from sliding out and as a result interfering with the differential, it won't be an issue in practice because no forces will be exerted in that direction and friction keeps it in place just fine. 

It´s different aspects to go in compliance with the RC gearbox sitting right underneath it. It may work in any manual driven of your cars, no doubt with any problems because you may have fine-tuned everything already and the chain falls off onto the floor in worst case? 

[astyanax]

Got it. Chains bad. Thanks everyone for chiming in! 

[SNIPE]

Infact, and this is very high tarrif, adding the roof mechanism from jeroen ottens' PF tribute car would be awesome, because it will be a 488 pista spider, that roof mech is the best I've seen, we just have to recolor it into red and white.

The two buwizz have 2 ports free too, which is how many the roof needs IIRC.

[astyanax]

8 hours ago, SNIPE said:

The two buwizz have 2 ports free too, which is how many the roof needs IIRC.

Please note that the front-outer ports on both BuWizz 2.0 must remain free, otherwise the hood won't close. That is, in the virtual model, port 1 on the passenger's side and port 2 on the driver's side can't be used. Depending on your PF connector placement strategy, you may or may not have another 2 ports free. I put each of the 4 PF L motors on a separate port, so with the 2 servos I'm using all 6 allowed ports already. If you make L motors share ports, you may run the risk of triggering overload protection a bit faster. YMMV.

When I find the time, I may update the virtual model with color-coded PF connectors to show (what I think is) the optimal placement strategy. But I'm definitely too lazy to draw in all the cable paths...

[SNIPE]

On 10/14/2021 at 8:27 AM, astyanax said:

Please note that the front-outer ports on both BuWizz 2.0 must remain free, otherwise the hood won't close. That is, in the virtual model, port 1 on the passenger's side and port 2 on the driver's side can't be used. Depending on your PF connector placement strategy, you may or may not have another 2 ports free. I put each of the 4 PF L motors on a separate port, so with the 2 servos I'm using all 6 allowed ports already. If you make L motors share ports, you may run the risk of triggering overload protection a bit faster. YMMV.

When I find the time, I may update the virtual model with color-coded PF connectors to show (what I think is) the optimal placement strategy. But I'm definitely too lazy to draw in all the cable paths...

Noted, It looks like there may be a little space to move the 4 motors outwards a little in order to put an 8 speed gearbox in, but where 8th is modfied so that it is really reverse gear.

But then how do we get neutural, there is no DNR selector.

[astyanax]

On 4/4/2021 at 12:10 AM, brunojj1 said:

My model would look different of course if we´ve had the Ferrari parts one year earlier, including the wheel arches. And I apreciate your attitude of fine tuning the "never ending project", although I guess it´s finished now after you have made the video?

So I never made the effort to experiment with the wheel arches from set 42125, because I just didn't see the case for it: the original solution with flex axles looked great to me already. (And I do love my flex axles -- massive 8448 fanboy here! )

But a week ago, something triggered me.....

I happened upon some renderings of a model sold by some Chinese brand (not CaDA) that's obviously a rip-off of yours... BUT, they slapped on wheel arch panels. Intrigued, I took a closer look, but soon this turned to disappointment, not to say disgust, when I realized they got it all wrong!

The root problem seems to be that they used the Sian arches (in red) which are unnecessarily long and where causing undue collisions with other bodywork, which they solved simply by straightening and rotating away surrounding bodywork, thereby losing essential lines of the real car.

But then I couldn't resist checking whether the 13L wheel arches (part 69911) would indeed look more appropriate. And so here we are...

More large renders:

https://bricksafe.com/pages/astyanax/ferrari488pista-arches

I only changed the driver's side, so you can compare. Especially in the front I think there has been improvement, as I was also able to bring the #14 panel (highlighted in the front view pic) slightly further inwards, such that it doesn't stick out further than the front wheel.

Thoughts?!

(Yes I struggled in some corners... so bring it on! )

[SNIPE]

1 hour ago, astyanax said:

So I never made the effort to experiment with the wheel arches from set 42125,

Much better!.

[amorti]

@astyanax that looks great! Does it steer without the tyre colliding?

[astyanax]

53 minutes ago, amorti said:

@astyanax that looks great! Does it steer without the tyre colliding?

Yup. There are no parts in places where there weren't any before. Like in the original design, margins are null. I implemented the wheel arch on the front left last night, all great!

[Gray Gear]

@astyanax looks great! I kind of hoped the yellow version would come with wheel arches but oh well

[astyanax]

51 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

@astyanax looks great! I kind of hoped the yellow version would come with wheel arches but oh well

Yeah I was wondering about that: why didn't they do it? It took me just a few evenings of tinkering in LDCad, then 1 evening to verify and tweak in reality (okay I need another evening to implement the rear arches). And I'm no genius, nor particularly experienced: I only started building 1:8 supercars since 1 year ago and have never designed one from scratch myself... So what gives?

[Meatman]

10 hours ago, astyanax said:

Yup. There are no parts in places where there weren't any before. Like in the original design, margins are null. I implemented the wheel arch on the front left last night, all great!

That looks good, but what it supporting that wheel arch? It doesn't look like there is much holding it in place.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Milan
Do not quote images from the same page, please.

[astyanax]

32 minutes ago, Meatman said:

That looks good, but what it supporting that wheel arch? It doesn't look like there is much holding it in place.

No worries, it's firmly held. If and when I finish verifying and tweaking the rear wheel arches, I'll share the virtual model so y'all can see.

[brunojj1]

@astyanax Wow, I thought you have disassembled your car in order to build another FIAT 😃??

It looks great in the renders, hopefully your real counterpart can live up to it 🇮🇹! I guess the front fender pieces are attached "illegal"? I definitely would prefer the flex axles without the sausages lined up 😬

[astyanax]

1 hour ago, brunojj1 said:

@astyanax Wow, I thought you have disassembled your car in order to build another FIAT 😃??

I know I know....  In fact I was already pillaging the model -- there's a reason I took the photo from that angle and in the dark! 

1 hour ago, brunojj1 said:

I guess the front fender pieces are attached "illegal"?

Never! Whenever there are collisions that I can't resolve 'in system', I at least make sure that one of the colliders is mounted on a rubber axle connector (45590) to gracefully move out of the way! In this case, the upper headlights (with the 8 trans-clear bits) are on rubber.

1 hour ago, brunojj1 said:

I definitely would prefer the flex axles without the sausages lined up 😬

Yeah I know this is a controversial technique around here... But in this case I think it's okay because the flex axle is bent only slightly, so no hideous gaps appear between the 1L beams. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by astyanax

[langko]

@astyanax Man these smaller wheel arches definitely look better on cars than the larger ones we have... As long you can design it in such a way that the front wheels don't clash with anything when turning, the tighter arches look much more realistic. As always, great job with the modifications 

[astyanax]

My original idea for the rear wheel arches wasn't good enough in reality. After letting it simmer for a week I had another go and now I'm satisfied.

The #13 panel between the door and the rear wheel had to go. It was sticking outward too high, making it impossible to create a smooth continuous line from the door to the wheel arch. My solution is to put a small #2 panel at a half-module offset; now the flow is good:

As you can see here, the long #5 panel in the door collides with the new construction, making the door close not so well. However, I was able to bring that #5 panel forward very slightly -- all solved.

All in all, the rear wheel arch was quite tricky, as there are half-module offsets all over the place to make it look right. Consequently, the part count increased by almost 100... The root problem, I think, is that the new 'mudguard' (71689) does not taper inward at the bottom, so to simulate such tapering, it has to be placed at half-module offset. Grmpf.

I've updated the Rebrickable entry; check it out if you want to see how it's constructed!

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-89859/astyanax/pimp-my-pista-ferrari-488-pista-by-brunojj1/

That's it from me. Over and out. I'm really taking her apart now.