amorti

Brunojj1's mind-opener - red supercar - free instructions now available for static version

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@Brunojj1

This is great work, the best set I ever bought – one of the best MOCs I ever build. Good work.

This was my first non-Lego set I bought. Honestly, if you need to buy the parts, don’t waste your money on Lego. The quality is excellent!

I was very unhappy with the Technic sets released over the past few years and there were very few new sets I bought for myself. 42082 and 42083 ended my Lego career. I would have returned for 42113 and planned to buy it at least twice. But it never happened. As a matter of fact I bought and buy Lego to use the parts for MOCs. Thus, I never considered the Sian as I don’t like the color and shifted to used sets. But I never bought anything but Lego.

This set and model demonstrated to me how good a set can be and how far ahead the competition is. Lego Technic really needs to improve if it wants to survive.

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Well, 4* higher powered motors versus 2.7kg of model finally found the weak link. The peg in the differential snapped and pinged away, never to be seen again.

I decided rather than trying to patch the thing up, I'd strip it to atoms and build it again, as it really was an enjoyable building experience.

I decided to fit a Lego differential this time, because there was one available in my spares. However, it didn't run smoothly in the frame.

Note the teeth on the CaDA differential (top) are cut at a different depth than those on the Lego differential (bottom).

1920x1080.jpg

Although the ABS dust on the teeth says it's also not perfect, it's not a problem in the original model, as the angle on the CaDA bevel gears (bottom) is also cut different, much squarer than Lego (top) which takes up any slack there would be from the differential's teeth being shallower.

1920x1080.jpg

So, turns out CaDA parts aren't always  100% compatible in every situation! I think this is CaDA's prize for trying a little too hard to ensure their parts aren't direct copies of Lego parts. MouldKing bevel gears are much closer to Lego in design, and as far as I can tell are 100% compatible. 

I think if you are building this and intend to add more power, whether by feeding it from a buwizz or adding more motors or both, you should use a new type Lego differential, and apply the 'modest' gearing upgrade described above by @brunojj1 to compensate for the reduced speed.

I'll keep an ordinary diff, as this time it's just getting two motors. I've realized it's never going to be driven outside, so speed isn't important to me, but those two freed-up CaDA pro motors are valuable for other models.

The blue 20t clutch gears from CaDA however, are very close to Lego's.

Edited by amorti

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7 hours ago, amorti said:

Well, 4* higher powered motors versus 2.7kg of model finally found the weak link. The peg in the differential snapped and pinged away, never to be seen again.

I decided rather than trying to patch the thing up, I'd strip it to atoms and build it again, as it really was an enjoyable building experience.

I decided to fit a Lego differential this time, because there was one available in my spares. However, it didn't run smoothly in the frame.

Note the teeth on the CaDA differential (top) are cut at a different depth than those on the Lego differential (bottom).

Although the ABS dust on the teeth says it's also not perfect, it's not a problem in the original model, as the angle on the CaDA bevel gears (bottom) is also cut different, much squarer than Lego (top) which takes up any slack there would be from the differential's teeth being shallower.

So, turns out CaDA parts aren't always  100% compatible in every situation! I think this is CaDA's prize for trying a little too hard to ensure their parts aren't direct copies of Lego parts. MouldKing bevel gears are much closer to Lego in design, and as far as I can tell are 100% compatible. 

I think if you are building this and intend to add more power, whether by feeding it from a buwizz or adding more motors or both, you should use a new type Lego differential, and apply the 'modest' gearing upgrade described above by @brunojj1 to compensate for the reduced speed.

I'll keep an ordinary diff, as this time it's just getting two motors. I've realized it's never going to be driven outside, so speed isn't important to me, but those two freed-up CaDA pro motors are valuable for other models.

The blue 20t clutch gears from CaDA however, are very close to Lego's.

Interesting.. 

But, just a anecdote.. I don't remember the set, but I do remember I once wasn't satisfied with how smooth the Lego's bevel gear was working and I changed it with Cada's and it was much smoother.. I didn't know of the difference, just thought it was a tolerance fluke.. But just to say that the difference doesn't automatically mean incompatibility..

 

btw.. Building the model right now, excited to see ho well it works :)

 

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Yeah, LEGO changed the 20t bevel gear about 5 or 6 years ago and the teeth seem to rub against liftarms. There was a topic about the issue on this forum a while ago.

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Does anyone have any opinions on the non-motorized version of this set?

 

Im looking at buying it, and i can find the manual version a decent bit cheaper, and since i mostly use these cars as display models, i dont really need the RC stuff, but i cant find any info on how the features work, and how well it works, without the motors.

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@vectormatic at my go-to shop the motorized version is ~137€, and the manual version ~126€ (shipping included). At that price difference I'd just get the motorized version. Or did you see the manual version a lot cheaper somewhere?

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@JunkstyleGio @Gray Gear

I know the price difference is marginal ordering from china, but im not entirely sure i feel comfortable with that. If my local customs gets a hold of it ill be paying tax and admin costs and that will end up a lot more expensive, and take a long time to get here (and im an impatient SOB when it comes to ordering things online, i can wait ages with actually ordering, but when i do, i want it in my hands the next day)

So i was looking at ordering from local shops reselling the set, and the only european option i found with actual stock so far would be €200 for the static, or €290 for the RC versions. Ridicilous prices on the face of it, but if i buy from china and customs picks my package to inspect, i would easily end up near €200 as well, negating any price difference.

 

I havent made up my mind about it all, but figured that if the static version works well too, i at least have more options to look for a suitable shop to buy from, as both versions of this set seem to be in high demand and low stock everywhere

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@vectormatic

290€ is scalper pricing. I couldn't pay that. These guys are the European importer, they don't have the motorised version right now but when their shipment arrives it'll be available at 200€ retail.

https://www.freakware.de/klemmbausteine/cada/fahrzeuge-w19970

They do have the manual version for 160€ though.

The manual version basically just leaves out the motors. It'll have 4 speeds by HOG using what's usually a gear indicator by the engine, steering idk but I guess there's no HOG, and a V8 fake motor turning by the wheels. The shift paddles are there but they don't work unless you do a mod as described above.

The motorisation of the set really is glorious, and is absolutely its piece de resistance. It'd be a shame to buy it without that, even if you only ever drive it once across the floor, change through the gears a few times, and never play with it again.

Also, the 40€ supplement is very cheap for a Bluetooth box, remote, 2* L motors, 2* servos, 2*LED pairs and 2* extension leads. The motors are significantly stronger than Lego motors.

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@amorti Thanks, i do know that these prices are ridiculous, and there is no way i would pay €290, hence my question if the static version is good too, but given your comment, it is just the RC version with the RC bits ripped out, no additional HOGs etc...

Ill keep an eye out for ways to get the RC version for a decent price.

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When you get to adding the steering wheel, use a 5,5L axle.

If you press it all the way into the universal joint a 5L axle doesn't get deep enough into the steering wheel to hold it, or if all the way into the steering wheel then not deep enough into the universal joint to hold in. If it does fall out the u-joint (this WILL happen if you use the metal joint from the set) then you'll have a devil of a time putting it back in. A 5.5L has a stop so that can't happen.

800x450.jpg

The steering wheel then has just a little too much slack. CaDA's half bushes are different to Lego's, which means they fill the gap just nice where a Lego one wouldn't fit.

800x450.jpg

A 15535 in black would also work, wouldn't require third party pieces, and arguably looks neater.

Edited by amorti

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Thanks @amorti, I checked in LDraw and you are 100% correct about the axle length. Especially using part 15535 is a nice finishing touch.

Edited by astyanax

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Gotta say Cada/DoubleE are serious about the customers. After starting the build, turns out 1x Cada L Motor Pro and the batterybox for my C61042W were missing.  I was on book #02 and you guys can understand the state of my mind. I take the responsibility for 1. buying someone from AliExpress (not directly from Cada) and 2. not checking the boxes prior to the building. Lets not talk about how worse the dispute resolve thing went ? After telling all the stuffs with screenshots, Cada/DoubleE are now sending me the missing parts.

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If you build the front edge with 5.5L axles per instructions:

800x450.jpg

If you use an 11L axle:

800x450.jpg

I have in mind that older 5.5L axles were slightly shorter? Maybe Bruno had those ones when he designed it.

 

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Lego parts also suffer from this to some extent. Since liftarms are very slightly less than 1M thick, if you stack enough of them, the tolerances add up and become visible.

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Lego changed the design of that part quite a while ago, maybe 15 years by now. The old black and white 5.5 axles are perfect 5.5, but the new ones are slightly longer for some reason. You can differentiate them by the flat ''short'' end of the axle, the new one is more rounded.

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4 hours ago, amorti said:

If you build the front edge with 5.5L axles per instructions:

If you use an 11L axle:

I have in mind that older 5.5L axles were slightly shorter? Maybe Bruno had those ones when he designed it.

I used 11L axles and 16L axles at the skirts originally. Both didn´t exist in the CaDA parts catalogue.

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@astyanax could you check something?

The slack in the rear hubs isn't ideal, it's all because they're a pinhole mounted on an axle. It's ok as it is, but that wobble is going to stress the CV joints if you start adding more power.

If you used 3L pins without friction in the rear hubs to take out the slack, could you then push in half pins with bars to mount the brake calipers back on?

For now I just used CaDA 3L pins with friction to take out the slack, but they don't accept a bar and nor do Lego 3L Pins with friction. I don't have any Lego 3L's without friction handy to try it.

Edited by amorti

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@amorti There's a ridge inside Lego's frictionless 3L pin, which prevents bars from being inserted deeper than 1L, from either side. Same for Lego's frictionless 2L pins.

If you don't mind introducing more friction in the suspension, what you might try is to use two 2L black pins with a 4L bar through them, effectively making a 4L pin. (But will the 4L bar be able to take the stress? I'd think yes...) Just a wild thought...

Edited by astyanax

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@astyanax for now I have CaDA's normal 3L pins in there and the rear calipers are deleted. They don't have as much fiction as Lego normal 3L pins. There's not nearly enough friction for anything to bind, but it sure did take away a lot of free play, idk if it would bind with Lego pins as I didn't try.

IMHO it's worth losing the calipers for the improvement in functionality but I know everyone doesn't think that way.

Maybe there's some other solution using minifig wrenches like the Bugatti calipers?

 

Edited by amorti

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Nice one.

Not sure if you have a physical build yet? But try both pins and axles to hold the hubs, makes a big difference IRL. This solves the only downside of using the pins.

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On 1/16/2021 at 5:53 PM, brunojj1 said:

16L axles at the skirts

Speaking of those side skirts... Now we have 85x85p.jpg to smoothen things... :pir-sweet:

ferrari488pista_brunojj1_alt_skirt_v0.pn

Connection points aren't obvious and a black 3x11 panel must be sacrificed... But it can be made to fit I think. You'd need 5 on each side.

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