LEGO Star Wars 2021 Set Discussion - READ FIRST POST!!!

[BacktoBricks]

15 minutes ago, Paul11283652 said:

That’s not how cost accounting works! Focusing their product line on the most expensive item could lead to a death spiral where overheads are applied to the detriment of all products. Without knowing the except amounts figures and pieces cost to produce against the expected volume of sales, it is nebulous to discuss the cost of a minifig in a set relative to other products.

I think it's a quite well accepted concept on this forum that Lego has a budget for a wave or year for each particular theme so it is something that is worthy of discussion. For instance, it was admitted by the designers that the first wave of the new Harry Potter sets back in 2018 used some of the Jurassic Park budget for prints. And what seems logical to us as outsiders is clearly not how Lego works or we'd never get such figs as burnt robed Obi-Wan Kenobi in Grievous' Starfighter.

[BrickBob Studpants]

4 hours ago, BacktoBricks said:

However, i the 2HY is as thin on new figures then clearly there is a budget cut.

Couldn't agree more  Of course you could argue that the amount of new moulds had to decrease in 2021 due to the lack of new content, but that argument doesn't hold much water upon closer inspection. While a large part of the budget for moulds, recolours, and prints was undeniably spent on the ST and spin-off sets, there were plenty of new OT-specific moulds introduced too over the last couple of year: Vader, the Stormies, Scout Troopers, and Rebel pilots all got brand-new helmet moulds (the latter three even being dual-moulded), plus Han's updated hairpiece, the Leia hologram, and plenty of new prints. And there's the Cantina set, which alone featured 3 new moulds.

Considering this, the lack of new films alone cannot explain what looks like a heavily reduced budget (especially when you consider the popularity of Mando, which still doesn't get quite the treatment it deserves). I really hope it's partially due to a larger budget for the 2HY sets and not due to lower sales. I mean SW is still in the top 6 best-selling themes after all, even if it dropped two or places in that ranking this apparent budget cut is way to drastic. To me, I feels like it was reduced to 20-30% of what it once was 

[Redroe]

35 minutes ago, BacktoBricks said:

I think it's a quite well accepted concept on this forum that Lego has a budget for a wave or year for each particular theme so it is something that is worthy of discussion. For instance, it was admitted by the designers that the first wave of the new Harry Potter sets back in 2018 used some of the Jurassic Park budget for prints. And what seems logical to us as outsiders is clearly not how Lego works or we'd never get such figs as burnt robed Obi-Wan Kenobi in Grievous' Starfighter.

And if we can't nail down what percentage of a set's cost-to-produce a minifigure might represent, it's us the consumers who determine its value as aftermarket prices show. So they'll keep a close eye and judge, how much can we charge for this? with this desirable figure included. 

The 501st BP is a good example. If you bought the 4 clones from a uk aftermarket seller you'd outstrip the original value of the set by a comfortable margin. 

(Which is actually I think why a lot of people are upset about the 501st BP, they aren't at all interested in the builds which from a objective perspective ought to add a lot of value above an average battle pack).

15 minutes ago, Lego-Freak said:

I really hope it's partially due to a larger budget for the 2HY sets and not due to lower sales.

I could be wrong but I don't think 1HY last year featured much in the way of new molds either? One Knight of Ren? All the rest are 2HY (KoR, Ahsoka, Razor Crest, Cantina).

They don't tend to show their hand much in the winter wave. Its usually the realm of battle packs, £25 sets and microfighters. Stocking filler stuff. (Which is odd since it just misses Christmas. Christmas pocket money spending stuff I guess) and then a couple of larger sets (X wing [oh yeah, Jannah hairpiece] and TIE dorito this year) but nothing huge. 

[benderisgreat]

57 minutes ago, BacktoBricks said:

I think it's a quite well accepted concept on this forum that Lego has a budget for a wave or year for each particular theme so it is something that is worthy of discussion. For instance, it was admitted by the designers that the first wave of the new Harry Potter sets back in 2018 used some of the Jurassic Park budget for prints. And what seems logical to us as outsiders is clearly not how Lego works or we'd never get such figs as burnt robed Obi-Wan Kenobi in Grievous' Starfighter.

All this info about HP eating a chunk of JW budget is news to me. Like how would this even work? Different Ip different Ip owners. Too complicated... But this would explain why some lines always get new molds and prints while others are stuck with constant reuses! Like Ninjago gets new molds almost every wave, while Marvel and Star Wars rarely do. Sure one is their original ip and others are licensed. Still dip in quality with SW sets has been very visible in recent waves. Like aforementioned reuse of burnt robes Analin and Obi-wan in other sets. Isn’t LEGO‘a motto “Only best is good enough”? Doesn’t look this way when you look at recent SW waves.

[lego_guyon02]

2 minutes ago, benderisgreat said:

Isn’t LEGO‘a motto “Only best is good enough”? 

They threw that motto in the garbage years ago 

[ToaDraco]

15 minutes ago, Guyon2002 said:

They threw that motto in the garbage years ago 

Exactly, I mean have you seen minifig print quality the past 5 years or so and the increasing frequency of discolored parts? I'm convinced at this point they just do not care that they suck at printing light colors on darker plastic and use the thinnest layer of paint possible. If they'd apply a 2nd or 3rd coat maybe prints would finally look like they do on the boxes and promo art.

Edited November 29, 2020 by ToaDraco

[BigGuy4U]

1 hour ago, benderisgreat said:

All this info about HP eating a chunk of JW budget is news to me. Like how would this even work? Different Ip different Ip owners. Too complicated... But this would explain why some lines always get new molds and prints while others are stuck with constant reuses! Like Ninjago gets new molds almost every wave, while Marvel and Star Wars rarely do. Sure one is their original ip and others are licensed. Still dip in quality with SW sets has been very visible in recent waves. Like aforementioned reuse of burnt robes Analin and Obi-wan in other sets. Isn’t LEGO‘a motto “Only best is good enough”? Doesn’t look this way when you look at recent SW waves.

I would assume the budgets are set by Lego themselves, not the owners of the IP, so they can pretty much do whatever they want.

[Gontron]

I really want to believe that the subpar wave is the result of Covid, especially since the previous Star Wars waves weren't that bad. Of course, there is also the fact that Star Wars is in a slump right now, with the Mandalorian being the only relevant project (Squadrons too but that's not specific enough to make sets on). 

[JintaiZ]

2 hours ago, Guyon2002 said:

They threw that motto in the garbage years ago 

Even though there may be some inaccuracies in sets/minifigs, I still feel like most sets are really well done.

But I have to say, the prices aren't the best... that applies to most Star Wars sets.

Edited November 29, 2020 by JintaiZ

[Kit Figsto]

Just now, JintaiZ said:

Even though there may be some inaccuracies in sets/minifigs, I still feel like most sets are really well done.

But I have to say, the prices aren't the best... that applies to most Star Wars sets.

I do feel as though the quality of sets hasn't decreased, an I do like what we're getting this wave, my general issue is just the number of sets or minifigures seemingly shrinking in recent years.

[Redroe]

Just now, Kit Figsto said:

I do feel as though the quality of sets hasn't decreased, an I do like what we're getting this wave, my general issue is just the number of sets or minifigures seemingly shrinking in recent years.

Quality of design and build remains at an all time high. It improves year on year. Quality of part production, colour consistency and printing is in a bit of a dip however. Also minfig parts like arms and torsos seem to crack earlier than ever. No getting round it. Different cheaper materials maybe? If the difference in material were due to environmental concerns I'd have expected it to be broadcast from the rooftops.

[JintaiZ]

2 minutes ago, Kit Figsto said:

I do feel as though the quality of sets hasn't decreased, an I do like what we're getting this wave, my general issue is just the number of sets or minifigures seemingly shrinking in recent years.

I don't collect minifigs, so I actually prefer less minifigs for a less PPP. However, I do feel like the quality of minifigs could have been better...

[benderisgreat]

1 hour ago, JintaiZ said:

Even though there may be some inaccuracies in sets/minifigs, I still feel like most sets are really well done.

But I have to say, the prices aren't the best... that applies to most Star Wars sets.

I mean minifigure quality has been pretty bad recently, builds themselves thought pretty solid. But minifigs are big reason why people buy sets, so I feel like Lego should improve their quality asap. I still don't get why they haven't figured how to print flesh color on dark colored plastic on 5-6 years! It's really visible on Han Solo and some Batman minifigs.

Edited November 29, 2020 by benderisgreat

[lego_guyon02]

47 minutes ago, benderisgreat said:

I still don't get why they haven't figured how to print flesh color on dark colored plastic on 5-6 years! It's really visible on Han Solo and some Batman minifigs.

Not to mention the pinnacle of awfull printing: Mercy

[Redroe]

49 minutes ago, benderisgreat said:

I mean minifigure quality has been pretty bad recently, builds themselves thought pretty solid. By minifigs are big reason why people buy sets, so I feel like Lego should I prove their quality asap. I still don't get why they haven't figured how to print flesh color on dark colored plastic on 5-6 years! It's really visible on Han Solo and some Batman minifigs.

That's a bit of a sweeping statement, some people prefer minifigs, whereas some prefer a solid build, but the fact that a set ought to have good minifigs AND a solid build is not up for debate even if the focus is slightly more one way than the other (example 501st battle pack = hot minifigs with decent builds. Example new TIE = good build with decent figures. Exception = UCS).

But this printing thing is a big big problem. I had a good rant on this in the 2020 thread, but it seems that it is almost a problem with SW figs over other themes: the PotC and LotR lines include plenty of prints on dark coloured torsos (see Jack Sparrow for pity's sake) and it looks just fine. This was the same period (early 2010's) as they did a bunch of updates on core SW figures, like Han and rebel pilots, and it looks like washed out white or pink. Why can they not get it right? Why do they not apparently even TRY to get it right?

Has anyone seen/read a designer interview where this issue has been raised?

[benderisgreat]

7 minutes ago, Guyon2002 said:

Not to mention the pinnacle of awfull printing: Mercy

Why did you remind me of that? It's nightmare fuel level of horrible!

[Mandalorianknight]

4 hours ago, Redroe said:

I could be wrong but I don't think 1HY last year featured much in the way of new molds either? One Knight of Ren? All the rest are 2HY (KoR, Ahsoka, Razor Crest, Cantina).

They don't tend to show their hand much in the winter wave. Its usually the realm of battle packs, £25 sets and microfighters. Stocking filler stuff. (Which is odd since it just misses Christmas. Christmas pocket money spending stuff I guess) and then a couple of larger sets (X wing [oh yeah, Jannah hairpiece] and TIE dorito this year) but nothing huge. 

I went back and figured out the exact numbers a few days ago, the conclusion I came to was if you exclude the battle packs the amount of new prints/molds/etc in 1hy 2020 is only slightly more than 1hy 2021. So aside from the case of the missing battle packs, it's not a huge example of a decline in quality. (remember, the x-wing itself has multiple new molds)

32 minutes ago, Guyon2002 said:

Not to mention the pinnacle of awfull printing: Mercy

I've never played overwatch but I'm going to take from this that she isn't an alien with chalk-white skin?

Regarding the set reveals:

The juniors x-wing is pretty nice for a juniors set, it could really use a new cockpit mold but other than that I could see the average 4-7 year old buying it. It's also good that it comes with poe (is that a new print for the helmet or same as 2016) and every kid's favorite merchandisable character, BB-8.

The shuttle itself looks to be a slight improvement over the 2015 set, and while the PPP isn't great, look at the number of large parts, people! It's certainly got much better value than grievous's starfighter as some are comparing it too. The figure selection isn't great, I think a single officer (jerjerrod) or extra pilot could have made this a really solid set, but as is it's not bad at all. I have no doubt that luke's lightsaber will be the correct color in the actual set, and I'm 50/50 on whether or not vader keeps arm printing.

[lego_guyon02]

37 minutes ago, Redroe said:

But this printing thing is a big big problem. I had a good rant on this in the 2020 thread, but it seems that it is almost a problem with SW figs over other themes: the PotC and LotR lines include plenty of prints on dark coloured torsos (see Jack Sparrow for pity's sake) and it looks just fine. 

Really curious what Jack Sparrow figures you've seen then because I have a lot of them and their chests all look more like parchment than human skin 

[BrickBob Studpants]

2 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

(remember, the x-wing itself has multiple new molds)

They don’t count, the issue is the lack of new minifig moulds  The 1x1 brick with axle hole will likely be ubiquitous within a year and is surely included in other 1HY sets as well. The engine part is a bit more specialised, but I also expect it to pop up in other places soon  

Besides, semi-generic parts like these are hard to assign to a specific theme. Remember, the 2019 Slave One was supposed to introduce a new wedge piece which the designer of the Overwatch Gibraltar set caught wind of and implemented into his model first. So was it part of the SW budget or not? Hard to tell. Might be a similar situation with these new parts, for all we know 

[Mandalorianknight]

2 hours ago, Guyon2002 said:

Really curious what Jack Sparrow figures you've seen then because I have a lot of them and their chests all look more like parchment than human skin 

I seem to remember the normal ones having that same issue, but the one in the dark brown suit has a serious tan, where the skin print better matches the skin tone of kanan

12 minutes ago, Lego-Freak said:

They don’t count, the issue is the lack of new minifig moulds  The 1x1 brick with axle hole will likely be ubiquitous within a year and is surely included in other 1HY sets as well. The engine part is a bit more specialised, but I also expect it to pop up in other places soon  

Besides, semi-generic parts like these are hard to assign to a specific theme. Remember, the 2019 Slave One was supposed to introduce a new wedge piece which the designer of the Overwatch Gibraltar set caught wind of and implemented into his model first. So was it part of the SW budget or not? Hard to tell. Might be a similar situation with these new parts, for all we know 

It's not like the budget is exclusively for figure parts. Maybe the reason the budget seems a bit less this year is because of stuff like this. After all, some theme has to use part of their budget for a new mold, and given that they've only shown up in the x-wing so far, it's somewhat likely that it'll only be in this set/star wars sets in 1HY, therefore being a new mold for the star wars theme and taking part of the budget. Besides, what possible new molds do the figures this wave need? (or any figures that would likely show up in these sets, for that matter). IMO these new parts are much more important to the theme than, say, a new mold for dodanna's hair.

I think for the 2019 overwatch set the budget was still taken out of star wars as it was created for that set.

[TeufelHund]

Guess it's just the Mando set for me.

I don't like the new TF at all (although are those vertical streaks on the pilot helmet new?) - it's just too squat.

No point getting the new shuttle either as the 2015 version is clearly more detailed/larger and the figs included I already have from other sets.

Guess the Xwing isn't terrible but I only collect bad guy stuff generally. 

[Redroe]

10 hours ago, Guyon2002 said:

Really curious what Jack Sparrow figures you've seen then because I have a lot of them and their chests all look more like parchment than human skin 

 

7 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

seem to remember the normal ones having that same issue, but the one in the dark brown suit has a serious tan, where the skin print better matches the skin tone of kanan

Just went hunting in my box labelled NO CHILD SHALL KNOW OF THESE MINIFIGS' EXISTENCE and the ones I pulled out at random were:

Lotr Aragorn (flesh on dark brown), Lotr Merry (flesh and white on dark green), potC Barbossa (flesh on black), and browncoat Jack Sparrow.  I couldn't immediately find a blue Jack Sparrow but I daren't dig further because i am home working and if the wife hears a Lego noise she'll kick the door in.

Anyway.

They all look fine. In fact I was pleasantly shocked at how good they are. Jack's chest does indeed look a little dark, but I would far rather that than the tan and white be practically indistinguishable (the white looks solid, fresh-from-the-dry- cleaners white. Han Solo is going to ask for their address). I am sure if I went through all the box I'd find some other examples. I would place good money on the PoP and lone ranger figs being of similar quality but I don't have any to confirm.

[BrickBob Studpants]

7 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

After all, some theme has to use part of their budget for a new mold

We don’t really know how that works for all-purpose moulds though  A good example is the 1x1 round tile, introduced in 2012. That one appeared in so many sets across themes even from the very beginning, it wouldn’t have made much sense to allocate it to any particular theme’s budget. There might a separate pool for things like that 

[Fuppylodders]

3 hours ago, Lego-Freak said:

We don’t really know how that works for all-purpose moulds though  A good example is the 1x1 round tile, introduced in 2012. That one appeared in so many sets across themes even from the very beginning, it wouldn’t have made much sense to allocate it to any particular theme’s budget. There might a separate pool for things like that 

I guess it'd be entirely possible that given how spread out across other themes it was, budgeting on TLG's scale is just digital numbers and moving numbers around to make things balance. So, possible they simply looked at what budget had space available, and simply tied it to that. It's possible not every theme uses all of its budget so if there's some with some budget available, they'd just lump it in to that. 

Speculation/assumption of course, take with a pinch of salt. But it's a typical book balancing act. Better to allocate inside a theme (any theme) than require a seperate budget and therefore an extra pool of money not allocated to anything specific. 

[Big_Daddy]

After seeing some videos on youtube I'm sadly confirmed in my concerns about the X-Wing. I liked the back more than expected actually, but that nose... even the 7140 variant felt less weird.

As for the smaller wave and smaller sets, I can also imagine another covid-related reason. Of course the consumers are/will be hit in their wallets as well for obvious reasons, and if Lego wants to sell a decent amount of sets they'd have to keep it affordable.