Ts__

[MOC] LMS Class 5 "The Jacobite Steam Train"

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Hello everybody,

my last construction project took me to Scotland. The Jacobite Steam Train still operates between Fort Willam and Maillag. Various steam locomotives are used for this train, e.g. the LNER class B1 No. 61264, the LNER class K1 No. 62005 (when I visited in 2005) or the LMS Class 5 "Black Five" No. 45231. They all serve as wagons of British Railroads Mk. I coaches. The classic British steam train passenger car par excellence.

As a locomotive I chose the LMS Class 5 "45231". This promised a challenge as a Lego model: a conical boiler and angled cylinders. Exciting.

LMS_Class_5_45231_Iso

The locomotive has 2 Lego PU motors as a drive. 1x in the locomotive on 2 of the 3 large main axles (BigBen XL wheels), 1x in the tender on 2 of the 3 tender axles (BigBen M wheels). Each engine has its own HUB. The locomotive is controlled via the Lego PU remote control. However, since the motors have to be operated with different power due to the different wheel diameters, a tablet / mobile phone with the Lego PowerUp APP is interposed between the remote control and the locomotive. The APP accepts the travel commands from the remote control and forwards them to the two HUBs in the locomotive.

LMS_Class_5_45231_Front

The lighting of the locomotive consists of self-soldered LEDs, connected to the Power UP HUB in the locomotive. A normal Lego Led for PowerUP is installed in the tender. The entire lighting is controlled via the handheld remote control and the APP.

Forward travel: steady light at the front, optionally flashing light or off at the rear

Reverse: front flashing light or off, rear continuous light

The flashing is realized via the APP.

LMS_Class_5_45231_Tender

Built from Lego parts with the following third-party parts:

- BigBen wheels S, M, XL in new dark red

- Linkage from the 3D printer

- Lighting partly self-made

- Self-made lettering / decoration

LMS_Class_5_45231_Seite

 

LMS Class 5 45231 "The Jacobite Steam Train"

 

But only a locomotive is no train....

 

The classic: British Railroads Mk. I passenger car.

Built in the 50s in very large numbers and in many variants, these cars are still in use today on tourist trains and in collections / museums.

The color "new dark red" was attractive and difficult at the same time. There aren't many windows and if you do you can't pay for them ...

So I first looked for a solution for the windows: buildable, affordable and based on the model. In particular, the 4 small windows above are the mark

BR_MK_I_CK_21266_Aggregate

I also found the variety of variants impressive and couldn't really decide which one to build. So I build all ;-)

The cars are all built according to the same basic scheme and yet completely different. There are some with an open compartment (e.g. FO - First open) and some with individual compartments (e.g. SK - Second Corridor). I have 1st and 2nd class. 1st class has dark blue upholstery and a side table with a lamp. The 2nd class is more simply equipped. It was very interesting during the construction: the left / right sides of the car are often very different. E.g. In the case of the corridor cars, the doors are on the corridor side in line with a compartment door. In this way, in the event of war, the wounded could be pushed into the compartment on couches through the outer door.

The bogies were of course important to me again: Model type Commonwealth:

BR_MK_I_SO_4951_Drehgestell

All cars are again equipped with ball bearings. The reason is simple: the cars are long and heavy, and weigh around 900-950 grams. Most cars can drive Lego R40 curves, only the two very long ones cannot. Since my locomotive also needs R104, I prefer to use the cars on large radii. The roof of all cars can be partially removed to insert figures. With the corridor car you need little fingers ^^

BR_MK_I_CK_21266_Korridor

 

BR Mk. I 3093 Florence FO (First Open):

An open 1st class car. 1st class cars typically had maiden names as proper names:

BR_MK_I_FO_3093_Florence_Seitenansicht

 

BR Mk. I 4951 SO (Standard Open):

An open 2nd class car with an open-plan compartment. In terms of construction, this car is longer for me than most of the others, this has to do with the spaces between the windows. All of the cars have the correct number of windows, but the wall between windows in 2nd class cars was smaller than in 1st class cars. It's hard to do with Lego. So I decided to use the length differences.

BR_MK_I_SO_4951_Seitenansicht

 

BR Mk. I 1840 RMB (Restaurant Mini Buffet):

A restaurant car with a small bar / kitchen for coffee / tea / snacks. In the fan area is the bar. To the left of the middle door is a small storage room.

BR_MK_I_RMB_1840_Seitenansicht

 

BR Mk. I 13320 FK (First Corridor) Anna:

A 1st class carriage with a corridor and 7 individual compartments with 6 seats each. Ok, only 2 Lego figures per compartment because of excess width ...

BR_MK_I_FK_13320_Anna_Seitenansicht

 

BR Mk. I 99035 BSK (Brake Second Corridor):

A 2nd class carriage with a corridor and a brake / attendant compartment. It also serves as a luggage cart. This car belongs at the end of the train. In the case of "runaway" wagons (the wagons were torn off from the locomotive), the train attendant was able to recognize the situation via periscopes (the angles on the roof) and brake the wagons. This is why this car has the rear end for me. This is implemented as a flashing light and can be switched on inside.

BR_MK_I_BSK_99035_Seitenansicht

 

BR Mk. I 21266 CK (Composite Corridor): A corridor car with 1st and 2nd class.

BR_MK_I_CK_21266_Seitenansicht

 

The car transitions are designed the same for all cars:

BR_MK_I_RMB_1840_Iso

 

The aim was: the smallest possible gaps when cornering: This is what the car transition looks like in an R104 curve:

BR_MK_I_Wagen_in_R104_Kurve

 

Enjoy:

LMS Class 5 45231 "The Jacobite Steam Train"LMS_Class_5_45231_The_Jacobite_4

 

BR_MK_I_RMB_1840_Gangseite

 

LMS_Class_5_45231_The_Jacobite_1

 

Thomas

 

Edited by Ts__

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One word is all i can manage while I pick my jaw off the floor: awesome!

Edited by Murdoch17

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That looks fantastic! The locomotive is great by itself, and I really like your solution for the windows of the coaches. :thumbup:

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Really a very impressive model.  As a Brit myself, any British steamer is a pleasure to see in LEGO - and the more impressive the MOC, the more pleasurable!  A great MOC, with fantastic coaches too.

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Wow, you articulated the whole front frame, and not just the bogie? Why? Just to keep the cylinder profile narrow? How does that affect the performance of the running gear?

Edited by SteamSewnEmpire

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I can't count the number of times I had to retrieve my jaw from below the desk whilst reading this... you've perfectly modelled every tiny little detail, from the smokebox hinges to the bogies. I love those windows and the curve of the running boards behind the bufferbeam - and the custom lining and stickers are the icing on the cake. 

I think this needs to be frontpaged!

Absolutely stupendous work, well done!

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14 hours ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

Wow, you articulated the whole front frame, and not just the bogie? Why? Just to keep the cylinder profile narrow? How does that affect the performance of the running gear?

When I built it, I didn't even think of a solution with a fixed buffer.

Looking back, I see three reasons why a solid frame with the buffers won't work on this model:

- I have no space to swivel right next to the wheels of the first axle

- If you attach the lower front section with the buffers and the coupling directly to the frame under the boiler, this will not be a stable connection. And I needed the space under the frame for the inclined cylinders

- Main reason: with a fixed buffer and coupling, I cannot couple a car at the front, even in R104 curves.

with my solution: I can coupling the BR Mk. I coaches also at front:

LMS Class 5 articulated front frame working with coaches

 

 

Simulation with a fix front frame: i can´t coupling my coaches at front:

LMS Class 5 fix front frame not working with coaches

 

 

@all:

Thank you for your praise and encouragement. Wow.

 

7 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

I think this needs to be frontpaged!

;-)

 

Thomas

 

 

Edited by Ts__

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4 hours ago, Ts__ said:

When I built it, I didn't even think of a solution with a fixed buffer.

Looking back, I see three reasons why a solid frame with the buffers won't work on this model:

- I have no space to swivel right next to the wheels of the first axle

- If you attach the lower front section with the buffers and the coupling directly to the frame under the boiler, this will not be a stable connection. And I needed the space under the frame for the inclined cylinders

- Main reason: with a fixed buffer and coupling, I cannot couple a car at the front, even in R104 curves.

with my solution: I can coupling the BR Mk. I coaches also at front:

LMS Class 5 articulated front frame working with coaches

 

 

Simulation with a fix front frame: i can´t coupling my coaches at front:

LMS Class 5 fix front frame not working with coaches

 

 

@all:

Thank you for your praise and encouragement. Wow.

 

;-)

 

Thomas

 

 

Out of curiosity, where is the articulation point? Just trying to learn new techniques :).

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Wonderful work. Your attention to detail for all aspects of the locomotive and rake of cars is to be praised.

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On 8/29/2020 at 11:02 PM, SteamSewnEmpire said:

Out of curiosity, where is the articulation point? Just trying to learn new techniques :).

I'm certainly not a master in chassis construction, I'm still learning myself and just trying it out.

My current solution for the LMS Class 5 is the following:

- two pivot points: red and blue

- a connector: yellow

LMS Class 5 Drehpunkte Vorlaufachse

 

On 8/29/2020 at 10:13 PM, LEGO Train 12 Volts said:

Oh well, another maserpiece!

 

On 8/30/2020 at 3:42 AM, Feuer Zug said:

Wonderful work. Your attention to detail for all aspects of the locomotive and rake of cars is to be praised.

Thanks.

Thomas

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This is one fantastic model. I love this locomotive, and I'd love to take a look at any LDD/Studio files you have available for the build - It looks like you've used some very interesting building techniques throughout and I think I could learn a lot from this locomotive.

Edited by rday1982

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39 minutes ago, rday1982 said:

This is one fantastic model. I love this locomotive, and I'd love to take a look at any LDD/Studio files you have available for the build - It looks like you've used some very interesting building techniques throughout and I think I could learn a lot from this locomotive.

I seriously doubt he's going to share the design file. These things are valuable.

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1 hour ago, rday1982 said:

This is one fantastic model. I love this locomotive, and I'd love to take a look at any LDD/Studio files you have available for the build - It looks like you've used some very interesting building techniques throughout and I think I could learn a lot from this locomotive. 

 

Thanks, but I don't usually share or sell 3D files. Sorry. But:

I like to help with building and also provide additional pictures if desired. Just ask how any detail is built.

 

30 minutes ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

I seriously doubt he's going to share the design file. These things are valuable. 

hmm, valuable is the wrong word I think. The problem with files is that there are also people who simply resell it or pass it off as your work without naming the actual maker. I don't want to say this is what happens here!

If someone wants to build something -> gladly. I watch and learn from others too. I also like to help, but not with complete 3D files. Questions like: how is this area built exactly, will be answered by me. Either with pictures or sometimes with a small 3D file. There are no secrets to hide.

 

Thomas

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I'll glean what I can from the photos provided then. Although, I do find it slightly frustrating and baffling that Lego builders treat their 3D files like alchemical formulae. I'm not looking for the philosopher's stone. I just want to one day* make a decent-looking Lego steam locomotive which hopefully doesn't cost me thousands of dollars to buy the parts for via Bricklink. At which point, I shall be happy to provide the blueprints for others to follow suit.

*probably not any time soon, since all of my physical Lego is now with my brother's kids on the other side of the Atlantic. But one day when I've the space here.

 

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10 hours ago, rday1982 said:

I'll glean what I can from the photos provided then. Although, I do find it slightly frustrating and baffling that Lego builders treat their 3D files like alchemical formulae. I'm not looking for the philosopher's stone. I just want to one day* make a decent-looking Lego steam locomotive which hopefully doesn't cost me thousands of dollars to buy the parts for via Bricklink. At which point, I shall be happy to provide the blueprints for others to follow suit.

*probably not any time soon, since all of my physical Lego is now with my brother's kids on the other side of the Atlantic. But one day when I've the space here.

 

It's because people take the files and then make instructions to sell. You probably aren't planning to do that - I'm not accusing you of it. But there has been a bad track record on this website of shared files 'magically' becoming for-profit kits and manuals, and that has made everyone pretty gun-shy.

I can walk you how to build a British steam locomotive - they're super simple compared to North American engines. I'd also be willing to design a specific engine of your choice for a fee. But as far as handing over .lxf files... it doesn't happen much. People are petrified, but not without some cause.

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12 minutes ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

It's because people take the files and then make instructions to sell. You probably aren't planning to do that - I'm not accusing you of it. But there has been a bad track record on this website of shared files 'magically' becoming for-profit kits and manuals, and that has made everyone pretty gun-shy.

That hits it pretty well. But I'm not really petrified. I also like to help, but people also have to do something themselves and not just build from a ready-made solution. The result of your own work also makes you more satisfied than if you just copy something.

And for those who think they have no talent: There are free instructions, even for steam locomotives. There are also helpful books for beginners, for example Holger Matthes's book "Lego Railway" in Germany. As many contain explanations and instructions.

And as I said: if some area doesn't work at all: just ask.

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15 hours ago, rday1982 said:

Although, I do find it slightly frustrating and baffling that Lego builders treat their 3D files like alchemical formulae. I'm not looking for the philosopher's stone. I just want to one day* make a decent-looking Lego steam locomotive which hopefully doesn't cost me thousands of dollars to buy the parts for via Bricklink.

What is wrong with someone wanting to keep their own design to themselves? You never ask the magician how they did their trick. Mind you, there are plenty of lego train magicians around here who are happy to share their tricks (I would like to think myself included, e.g., this but replace the custom rods with technic beams). Whether a model was built freehand in brick or carefully laid out digitally, it is perfectly fine if someone does not want to share all of their details.

Even for people who would be inclined to share there are still many reasons not to, e.g., the digital build is just a first draft that is revised when building in real bricks, or maybe there are rare parts in the build that the designer really does want to keep private so that they do not disappear from the market.

At any rate, if you look around you can find a lot of really nice steam locomotive instructions for free or cheap online (including throughout the train tech forum)

 

4 hours ago, Ts__ said:

And for those who think they have no talent: There are free instructions, even for steam locomotives. There are also helpful books for beginners, for example Holger Matthes's book "Lego Railway" in Germany. As many contain explanations and instructions. 

Holger's book is amazing, full of tips for even advanced builders, has instructions for two different steam engines, and best of all for the US/UK, has been translated to English

 

Another good place to start is the RailBricks archive

 

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10 hours ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

It's because people take the files and then make instructions to sell.

Well, people suck and we can't have nice things because people suck.

10 hours ago, Ts__ said:

I also like to help, but people also have to do something themselves and not just build from a ready-made solution.

I like to take a look at how somebody else approached the problem, and maybe make something similar but I'd rarely copy outright because I happen to agree that one's own work is more satisfying in the end.

5 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

You never ask the magician how they did their trick.

I know enough of the classics to figure out what it's a variant of, but if I'm completely dumbfounded, that's my first question.

5 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

Whether a model was built freehand in brick or carefully laid out digitally, it is perfectly fine if someone does not want to share all of their details.

I agree that it's not anybody's job or obligation to share the details. I'm just a little taken aback by the extent to which people guard their secrets in the AFOL community.

5 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

maybe there are rare parts in the build that the designer really does want to keep private so that they do not disappear from the market.

And we're back to people suck and we can't have nice things because of that.

5 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

Holger's book is amazing, full of tips for even advanced builders, has instructions for two different steam engines, and best of all for the US/UK, has been translated to English

I didn't know there was an English translation. The last time I looked, there was only the German text available. I have just ordered this.

5 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

At any rate, if you look around you can find a lot of really nice steam locomotive instructions for free or cheap online

My interest in this one in particular comes from it being by far the nicest rendering of a Class 5 (one of my favourite steam engines) in brick that I've seen. Whilst there are lots of great models out there, many instruction sets for them, and some wonderful help available, the main reason I was expressing particular interest in this one is that it's absolutely gorgeous. I'd love to be able to model it half as well.

I think I see some things I can try for myself, and I wanted a 3D file if possible because that way I can pull it apart and put it back together again, then look for areas I'd like to do differently, and then attempt from scratch to build my own version using what I've learned before so much as touching a physical brick.

But we're back to people not liking to distribute their files because there are people who suck. I get it. I understand it. I do. It's just that it's really sad that people who would hoard rare parts, or people who would sell rather than freely distribute these files are something that folks have to be concerned about. It's a horrible indictment of the society that we live in to have to take these things into consideration when attempting to use a popular construction toy to engage in a somewhat niche hobby when said hobby is one of the most rewarding uses for free time (and said construction toy) that I've found.
 

10 hours ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

I can walk you how to build a British steam locomotive - they're super simple compared to North American engines.

You should probably start a thread containing said walkthrough if you're not unwilling to share the information. I'm not the only person who could benefit from this, and the more people who can access this information, the more people are going to feel like they can take a crack at building them, which is good for general interest in Lego trains.

As for the simplicity, I find that North American engines aren't always more complex. They're bigger, heavier, more rugged beasts and the shapes involved in building them up are sometimes easier to deal with. European and British locomotives are shorter, sleeker, and generally have less space to pack internals like motors and battery boxes into (yes, I know, the battery goes in the tender).

When it comes to steam locomotives, I do prefer the likes of the Class 5's, the A3's, etc. But I do have a certain fondness for things like the UP844's, or the Big Boy. I'd love to get some general tips from you for things like articulation between driving wheels, valve gear, greebling, and the best of the various ways to build a round boiler that's the right approximate size for a given stud width.

As well as the above, if anybody has any general tips for building at 8 studs wide without making it look like the locomotive started off relatively svelte but let itself go severely following a bad divorce, I'd love to hear them. Anyway, I'd like to apologise to Ts__for inadvertantly hijacking the last few posts.

Let's get back to telling him how good his train is (and as much of a work of art as it is, I'm sure that you'll find improvements to make over time as that's the nature of Lego).

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1 hour ago, rday1982 said:

As for the simplicity, I find that North American engines aren't always more complex. They're bigger, heavier, more rugged beasts and the shapes involved in building them up are sometimes easier to deal with. European and British locomotives are shorter, sleeker, and generally have less space to pack internals like motors and battery boxes into (yes, I know, the battery goes in the tender).

What I meant was: British steam locomotives are less complex in Lego. And this is due almost entirely to (generally) less significant boiler/firebox angling/shaping, and (always) less visible piping. 

Where are you struggling? I always start with wheel size and spacing, then go from there -> frame and gears -> boiler -> cab -> tender. It helps to have a lot of good photographs (especially a side-on picture) so you can line up the model from different angles as you build. You also have to be mindful to leave room not just for motors, but the supporting wires and connections. 

Mostly, the techniques involved here aren't very advanced. You have to use some SNOTing to get the boiler into a proper tube, and sometimes you have to get a little creative with angled bricks in the area of the firebox (Stanier's engines [like this Black 5] don't have that issue - their fireboxes are very basic in shape), but overall these models look a lot more complicated than they really are. The trick is getting them to run well - but making them look good isn't that difficult. 

Edited by SteamSewnEmpire

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