Northern Pacific Z-6 Challenger

[Craig Strader]

A 4-6-6-4 type steam locomotive. First conceived by the Northern Pacific in the 1930s, they were among the steam locomotives that represented "super-power" where engine builders learned to create locomotives that combined both power and speed. The first batch of 12 of these engines were first delivered in 1936 to replace double-heading methods. The locomotives please Northern Pacific so much in fact that 9 more were ordered in 1937. They could be found all over the NP's divisions hauling fast freight trains and reefer trains. Their 69 inch drivers allowed them not only strong pulling power but also the ability to go 60 miles per hour.

 

I thought it could bring a real "challenge" to those who want to build it. It has OVER 2000 parts total. It has a side rod system that needed to be reversed engineered a few times to perfect it to where no 3rd party elements are required. 

 

Unlike most other articulated steam engines I have seen on YouTube and other places, mine has a FIXED rear engine unit and a front free swinging engine unit just like Union Pacific 4014 that was restored in 2019 if I am correct. 

 

Description:

Locomotive is powered by 4 LARGE motors, these sit inside the boiler and provide the means of going forwards and backwards. Both the IR receiver and battery box sit inside the tender. I would recommend some extension cables given the fact that the locomotive itself is very long. The IR receiver also plays a part in the tender for the locomotive is designed to look like an oil burner. The bogies on the tender are specially designed to not only to look realistic but also to take turns at the same time. And the same can be said on the lead truck in front of the first engine unit. The cab will actually let you house an engineer and fireman to simulated them driving the locomotive.

 

To look at my other creations go to BrickLink and search under Strader987

https://www.bricklink.com/v3/studio/design.page?idModel=160723

This locomotive is also on The Lego Ideas website, here is where to find it:

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/7a2adb34-7fc5-401a-aa28-c8eddd37480c

Please help me get 10,000 supporters please.

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by Craig Strader
Needs readjusting

[Coal Fired Bricks]

Welcome to the forums.  Jeffsenlaw(spelling) created a Z-6 you may be able to take inspiration from that.  Nice build

[Craig Strader]

Thanks. There will be more to come soon

[SteamSewnEmpire]

Definitely better than my first engine. You invited me to comment in the 4-4-2 thread, and while there are areas that could be improved here, I don't want to be an *** and just run through them. I think this is strong, and could be superb. You are starting at a very high level.

I like that you went with the fixed rear wheelset, even though it might hurt performance - it's what I would have done, too.

Edited August 1, 2020 by SteamSewnEmpire

[Craig Strader]

3 minutes ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

Definitely better than my first engine. You invited me to comment in the 4-4-2 thread, and while there are areas that could be improved here, I don't want to be an *** and just run through them. I think this is strong, and could be superb. You are starting at a very high level.

I like that you went with the fixed rear wheelset, even though it might hurt performance - it's what I would have done, too.

16 hours ago, Craig Strader said:

Thank you and I knew you meant no harm. My papa would say some are stronger than others. I am just getting started. I will have more to come real soon, maybe freight cars or something.

 

[SteamSewnEmpire]

20 minutes ago, Craig Strader said:

 

My advice is twofold:

1) Try working on something much smaller to practice scaling and detailing - an 0-6-0 or or 4-6-0 or something along those lines. Smaller engines are a great way to hone abilities without facing burnout (you have less ground to cover, so you don't feel so taxed trying to 'fill in' spaces like you would with a big articulated engine).

2) Familiarize yourself with https://www.brasstrains.com/ . Without fail, it's my first stop when designing projects. While you cannot directly save the photos on their website, I enlarge them and then hit print screen and paste the pictures into MS Paint. Usually, I lift most of the pics associated with a given model. I then use the side-on photos to establish locomotive proportions (how long and tall the engine should be relative to the wheels I am using), and just start working up; wheels first, then boiler, then cab/tender. It seems to work really well in lieu of actual blueprints. 

Edited August 1, 2020 by SteamSewnEmpire

[Craig Strader]

Just now, SteamSewnEmpire said:

My advice is twofold:

1) Try working on something much smaller to practice scaling and detailing - an 0-6-0 or or 4-6-0 or something along those lines. Smaller engines are a great way to hone abilities without facing burnout (you have less ground to cover, so you don't feel so taxed trying to 'fill in' spaces like you would with a big articulated engine).

2) Familiarize yourself with https://www.brasstrains.com/ . Without fail, it's my first stop when designing projects. While you cannot directly save the photos on their website, I enlarge them and then hit print screen and paste the pictures into MS Paint. Usually, I lift most of the pics associated with a given model. I then use the side-on photos to establish locomotive proportions (how long and tall the engine should be relative to the wheels I am using), and just start working up; wheels first, then boiler, then cab/tender. It seems to work really well in lieu of actual blueprints. 

Funny you should say that, because I did the exact same way you did with your GN 4-4-2 and caboose. I actually built a WMSR 734 "Mountain Thunder" 2-8-0 and did the same thing on building it. I am currently trying to build a Canadian Pacific G2 with my taking on their premier train called The Dominion. But I'll be sure to upload my freight cars before I upload my steam passenger train.

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

What a beast!

[Craig Strader]

Thanks. I'll be posting more as soon as I can.

[SteamSewnEmpire]

39 minutes ago, Craig Strader said:

Funny you should say that, because I did the exact same way you did with your GN 4-4-2 and caboose. I actually built a WMSR 734 "Mountain Thunder" 2-8-0 and did the same thing on building it. I am currently trying to build a Canadian Pacific G2 with my taking on their premier train called The Dominion. But I'll be sure to upload my freight cars before I upload my steam passenger train.

G2s are sexy - looking forward to seeing it. Remember that you can use 3649 gears for the XXL wheels.

[Craig Strader]

 

25 minutes ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

G2s are sexy - looking forward to seeing it. Remember that you can use 3649 gears for the XXL wheels.

Thanks. It's not coming yet because the tender still needs work before the passenger cars. And as for the wheels, I might modify it to where it will accept larger diameter drivers. But for now, they will be standard because it will also be going to Lego Ideas to. I'll post the engine and tender whenever completed.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Craig Strader
Correcting

[Craig Strader]

6 hours ago, Craig Strader said:

 

Thanks. It's not coming yet because the tender still needs work before the passenger cars. And as for the wheels, I might modify it to where it will accept larger diameter drivers. But for now, they will be standard because it will also be going to Lego Ideas to. I'll post the engine and tender whenever completed.

Also, here is the link to the picture of my Z-6 turning:

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/7a2adb34-7fc5-401a-aa28-c8eddd37480c/comments_tab#content_nav_tabs&gid=1&pid=2

[Ts__]

Hello Craig,

this is a impressive machine. But I have big concerns about curves. I don't think, you can drive trough to a Lego R40 radius.

Do you have build this monster with real bricks and test it? I think, it's impossible to create a big steam engine only digital without real tests. The pictures at Lego Ideas show the problems.

Can you show here more pictures? Currently looks your posting only like a advertising for the Lego Ideas project. Sorry.

The machine looks good but not finish and i think, you should go the way to finish this beast!

Thomas

 

[Craig Strader]

6 hours ago, Ts__ said:

Hello Craig,

this is a impressive machine. But I have big concerns about curves. I don't think, you can drive trough to a Lego R40 radius.

Do you have build this monster with real bricks and test it? I think, it's impossible to create a big steam engine only digital without real tests. The pictures at Lego Ideas show the problems.

Can you show here more pictures? Currently looks your posting only like a advertising for the Lego Ideas project. Sorry.

The machine looks good but not finish and i think, you should go the way to finish this beast!

Thomas

 

Where do you think my flaws are on my Z-6 challenger?

[SteamSewnEmpire]

On 8/2/2020 at 6:01 AM, Craig Strader said:

Where do you think my flaws are on my Z-6 challenger?

I cannot answer for him, but I will tell you some areas where you can make improvements (I'm not picking nits - I'm saying where you can put in work while the engine remains in a digital state):

1) You don't need 4 large motors. Like 2 is more than enough. The more moving parts you have, the more likely is for something to go wrong. Minimalism is king.

2) Your driving wheels are too small - custom wheels would be better. These Challengers had 69 inch drivers - that's an almost perfect match for Big Ben's XLs. 

3) The driver sets are too far apart, and the locomotive probably 6-8 studs too long overall (at least). There's no sense in making a big engine even larger than necessary. The bigger it is, the more difficult it will be to get it to run properly. You can see from the picture below that there's less than one wheel-width between the two wheelsets:

4) The tender could be reworked in terms of shaping and dimensions, and the wheels on the trucks are too widely spaced. It's good you made allowances for a flexible central wheel, but the bogies could be compacted more to improve this even further (and make them look better).

5) The trailing truck on the locomotive is an enormous block.

6) The domes on the locomotive are huge and could stand to be re-thought (you can see from pictures that they're a stud tall at most, and actually have a pretty simple shape). 

7) The lead truck is probably at least a stud too long. 

Like I said originally, I think you're on the right track and could definitely get there, but further changes could be made. I didn't make this post to pick on you, single you out, etc. (and wouldn't have normally said anything, except that you did ask) - just to guide you to areas of concern that, should you choose, can be worked on. 

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Edited August 6, 2020 by SteamSewnEmpire

[Ts__]

On 8/2/2020 at 3:01 PM, Craig Strader said:

Where do you think my flaws are on my Z-6 challenger?

Do you have build this monster with real bricks and test it?

I am very concerned that this machine can turn corners. Unfortunately you only show digital pictures and only one shows how the complete front suspension swings out.

What we can't see:

Is the front undercarriage divided again or does it swivel only around a pivot point?

How is the tender coupled to the locomotive?

What does the locomotive with tender look like in a curve? Since you are installing motors.

I assume that the locomotive should also be able to drive. And there are curves. For Lego Ideas, the locomotive should also be able to come through the small Lego R40 curves. And that's not easy with this size. As a pure display model, the curve discussion would not matter, but then you don't need motors.

Please do not get this wrong: You have made the basis of the draft well, but the finishing and better pictures are missing, where we can see something. I like large steam locomotives and enjoy looking at them.

Thomas