Quantity over quality?

[astral brick]

As it happens with software and hardware, nowadays even Lego seems to have forgotten the importance of a proper beta-testing phase, and the recent, tragicomic, developments related to the set 42113 are another demonstration of it. The bigger the company, the less the chances of taking a step backwards, in spite of self-inflicted reputational damages.

Saving time and costs in order to increase the release of new products, a frenzied race in search of profits.  

[JintaiZ]

The real reason 42113 was cancelled is because there were problems with it, not because of its external pressure.

Follow this link to find out more:

https://brickset.com/article/52876/review-42113-v-22-osprey

[koalayummies]

5 hours ago, JintaiZ said:

there were problems with it

Just like the actual V-22.

5 hours ago, astral brick said:

The bigger the company, the less the chances of taking a step backwards, in spite of self-inflicted reputational damages.

Just like Bell Boeing! 

Dang Lego nailed this thing.

[howitzer]

11 hours ago, JintaiZ said:

The real reason 42113 was cancelled is because there were problems with it, not because of its external pressure.

Follow this link to find out more:

https://brickset.com/article/52876/review-42113-v-22-osprey

If the real reason for cancellation was indeed technical problems, it's even more obvious that there wasn't a proper quality control in place for this set.

[MAB]

If that is the case, they'll probably blame it on coronavirus. There are new motor parts in the set that the testers did not have access to at home and could not fully test the mechanism.

 

[Mylenium]

15 hours ago, astral brick said:

nowadays even Lego seems to have forgotten the importance of a proper beta-testing phase,

You keep reading about "focus group testing" and such nonsense, which is purely a marketing level thing, but I doubt there is any actual technical testing happening on a broader basis. Too many things went wrong in the last two years to let me believe any such thing even exists.

Mylenium

4 hours ago, MAB said:

There are new motor parts in the set that the testers did not have access to at home and could not fully test the mechanism.

That just sounds like a made up excuse. From what I can tell, the construction is fundamentally flawed, no matter what. And seriously, you wouldn't climb into a car that had such fundamental issues and uses untested parts. It was simply a dumb move to even release the set in this state, at least for those actually using the motorized functions, which of course in itself is a bit ironical: If LEGO wasn't so bent on pushing PoweredUp onto people in every set to inflate the prices, they could have created a more conservative, simpler mechanism and nobody would have even noticed...

Mylenium

[astral brick]

18 minutes ago, Mylenium said:

You keep reading about "focus group testing" and such nonsense, which is purely a marketing level thing, but I doubt there is any actual technical testing happening on a broader basis.

Customers are the cheapest testers, and they are so competent, fast and resourceful, judging by the amount of suggestions for fixing flawed models.

18 minutes ago, Mylenium said:

Too many things went wrong in the last two years to let me believe any such thing even exists.

Mylenium

I can understand - to a certain extent - issues with technic sets, but I can't accept problems with colour shades or printed parts' alignments.

[Verodin]

10 hours ago, howitzer said:

If the real reason for cancellation was indeed technical problems, it's even more obvious that there wasn't a proper quality control in place for this set.

This! I have quite some technic sets and a few big system ones, and if there's 1 thing very obvious it's that quality control does not seem to exist any more. Serious colour issues, different tightness of parts and even loose sitting pieces such as hairpieces. Issues that I would expect from a cheap manufacturer, but for a company such as Lego completely unacceptable. Yeah they do seem to have good customer service, but that should be reserved for rare occasions. With recent sets this has become too frequent.

I'm mostly a technic guy and it's gotten to the point where I'm seriously considering not buying Lego for the time being and just wait out the storm. Not to mention the obvious corner cutting and disappearance of B models. And last but not least the extortionate prices they are asking these days. Completely delusional in some cases. Up to a point I could accept that for a quality product, but as far as I'm concerned Lego is no longer a premium product.

My guess is that it's not so much a matter of quantity, but simple pure greed.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Verodin
typos

[Mylenium]

16 hours ago, astral brick said:

Customers are the cheapest testers, and they are so competent, fast and resourceful, judging by the amount of suggestions for fixing flawed models.

You know, there are consumer laws and that, even if on a general level it will always remain an open question what actually counts as a "working" product. Point in case: Inside our own AFOL bubble we can of course fix such things easily because we know where to look, how to do it and have the spare parts, but imagine some uninitiated person building this, shredding it on the first day and wanting a refund from his generic store where he bought it.... And given how LEGO keep beating about the bush about their high standards, things just don't mesh here. So no, consumers can't be Beta testers, especially on a material product with limited options to fix things after the fact. LEGO need to get their act together and avoid such debacles at all cost regardless whether they are construction issues or just fluctuating shades of colors...

Mylenium

Edited August 1, 2020 by Mylenium

[howitzer]

3 hours ago, Mylenium said:

You know, there are consumer laws and that, even if on a general level it will always remain an open question what actually counts as a "working" product. Point in case: Inside our own AFOL bubble we can of course fix such things easily because we know where to look, how to do it and have the spare parts, but imagine some uninitiated person building this, shredding it on the first day and wanting a refund from his generic store where he bought it.... And given how LEGO keep beating about the bush about their high standards, things just don't mesh here. So no, consumers can't be Beta testers, especially on a material product with limited options to fix things after the fact. LEGO need to get their act together and avoid such debacles at all cost regardless whether they are construction issues or just fluctuating shades of colors...

Mylenium

I have to agree with this. Most people are not like us AFOLs who can take a flawed set and fix it to awesomeness, so they only get frustrated and tear the sets apart if they don't work properly. And when someone returns and demands a refund, it's more costly than not selling the set in the first place. Lego has earned its reputation with the high standards, and they must be upheld or the competitors will take over - and that would be a loss for everyone, considering that the competitors probably won't uphold the same high standards either, so we'll be left with only less than high quality products.

[astral brick]

22 hours ago, Mylenium said:

So no, consumers can't be Beta testers, especially on...

Mylenium, I was being sarcastic.

[MAB]

On 7/31/2020 at 2:59 PM, Mylenium said:

That just sounds like a made up excuse.

Exactly, that is my point. You cut out part of my response, saying that they would blame it on coronavirus, then giving a made up reason such as not having access to parts to test.

[Mylenium]

22 hours ago, MAB said:

Exactly, that is my point. You cut out part of my response, saying that they would blame it on coronavirus, then giving a made up reason such as not having access to parts to test.

I fail to see your point. If there's any irony in your original post and I missed it, then so be it, but ultimately it doesn't matter what the actual reason is. And it still wouldn't matter if LEGO factualkyl were unable to outfit their testing crowd with pre-production models of new components. It has been and remains one big shit show thus far.

Mylenium

[LegoDW]

Question is would you accept a lower quality product if TLG cut their prices???  Feel most AFOL would not.

[JintaiZ]

16 minutes ago, LegoDW said:

Question is would you accept a lower quality product if TLG cut their prices???  Feel most AFOL would not.

I feel like the LEGO group could just take away the power functions and doesn't cancel the set though...

[LegoDW]

13 hours ago, JintaiZ said:

I feel like the LEGO group could just take away the power functions and doesn't cancel the set though...

From what i have seen on the internet, the fix is not too complicated.  TLG could have postponed the release if they wanted to correct the issue.  My comment to pricing and quality was more general, not specifically to the set you referenced.  It will be interesting to see what direction TLG will do moving forward.  Right now seams they are pushing higher quality products then kock offs, and higher prices accordingly.  Hopefully they can correct there production issues soon.

[JintaiZ]

3 minutes ago, LegoDW said:

From what i have seen on the internet, the fix is not too complicated.  TLG could have postponed the release if they wanted to correct the issue.  My comment to pricing and quality was more general, not specifically to the set you referenced.  It will be interesting to see what direction TLG will do moving forward.  Right now seams they are pushing higher quality products then kock offs, and higher prices accordingly.  Hopefully they can correct there production issues soon.

It's already cancelled, but if you don't need the hub and don't mind color differences you can bricklink one for about $200.

[howitzer]

The general consensus in the Technic forum seems to be that the 42113 was cancelled because of the military connection which goes against TLG's ethical guidelines. There was a serious issue with the gearing but that could've been solved simply by fixing it and postponing the release - which did not happen, instead the set was cancelled.

[koalayummies]

6 hours ago, howitzer said:

The general consensus in the Technic forum seems to be that the 42113 was cancelled because of the military connection which goes against TLG's ethical guidelines. There was a serious issue with the gearing but that could've been solved simply by fixing it and postponing the release - which did not happen, instead the set was cancelled.

Yeah regardless of whether they color the nacelles and vertical stabilizers bright orange or wrap the entire thing in rainbows and unicorns it is still operated by exclusively by military.

Along with the fact that the real thing is an extremely overpriced, dangerous, limited role, vulnerable, needy, fragile, unreliable piece of crap aircraft that should have been cancelled decades ago. Terrible choice of vehicle to feature even if it was operated by Greenpeace and running on Willie Nelson's biofuel. Lego scrapping this is a good thing, one less V-22 memorabilia.

Edited August 18, 2020 by koalayummies

[anothergol]

On 7/31/2020 at 3:59 PM, Mylenium said:

That just sounds like a made up excuse. From what I can tell, the construction is fundamentally flawed, no matter what. And seriously, you wouldn't climb into a car that had such fundamental issues and uses untested parts. It was simply a dumb move to even release the set

-it wasn't released (to the public)

-it's not a real vehicle, a flaw in the design isn't gonna kill people
(toys can still hurt kids and I'm sure Lego takes that more seriously)

[Verodin]

Please don't turn this into another discussion about that specific set. There's a dedicated topic for it.

 

 

On 8/18/2020 at 2:11 AM, LegoDW said:

Question is would you accept a lower quality product if TLG cut their prices???  Feel most AFOL would not.

No. Why would I buy a product from a manufacturer that can't even get their colours correct. Then there's other manufacturers with interesting designs, at similar prices, and actually have their act together. TLG really needs to ask itself what sets them apart from the rest.

[LegoDW]

On 8/20/2020 at 1:42 AM, Verodin said:

Please don't turn this into another discussion about that specific set. There's a dedicated topic for it.

 

 

No. Why would I buy a product from a manufacturer that can't even get their colours correct. Then there's other manufacturers with interesting designs, at similar prices, and actually have their act together. TLG really needs to ask itself what sets them apart from the rest.

Hopefully TLG can work on their problem described above.  They are fortunate to have such a passionate fan base of AFOL.

[koalayummies]

On 8/19/2020 at 10:42 PM, Verodin said:

Please don't turn this into another discussion about that specific set. There's a dedicated topic for it.

Well the set is mentioned specifically in the OP and this type of dictatorial comment is a bit mini modding.

Quote

Serious colour issues, different tightness of parts and even loose sitting pieces such as hairpieces. Issues that I would expect from a cheap manufacturer, but for a company such as Lego completely unacceptable.

On 8/19/2020 at 10:42 PM, Verodin said:

Why would I buy a product from a manufacturer that can't even get their colours correct.

Please don't turn this into another discussion about color quality. There's a dedicated topic for it.

https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/30439-lego-quality-reference/

See, not cool right?

Edited August 23, 2020 by koalayummies

[AmperZand]

Maybe it’s the grumpy old man in me speaking, but over the last few decades, I have noticed a lowering of standards in many products, services and people in the west, not just LEGO’s quality. From clothes from supposedly reputable brands that fall apart in no time to university-educated colleagues who can’t express themselves in writing and make errors of formal logic. The worst thing is that so few people seem to care about declining standards. Most consumers don’t seem to care, so LEGO doesn’t either. It’s my impression that only a few connoisseurs - AFOLs in the case of LEGO - give a damn. Maybe it’s just me, but it really does seem that way.

 

[koalayummies]

2 hours ago, AmperZand said:

Maybe it’s the grumpy old man in me speaking, but over the last few decades, I have noticed a lowering of standards in many products, services and people in the west, not just LEGO’s quality. From clothes from supposedly reputable brands that fall apart in no time to university-educated colleagues who can’t express themselves in writing and make errors of formal logic. The worst thing is that so few people seem to care about declining standards. Most consumers don’t seem to care, so LEGO doesn’t either. It’s my impression that only a few connoisseurs - AFOLs in the case of LEGO - give a damn. Maybe it’s just me, but it really does seem that way.

No I've seen it with a lot of things as well. Even worse is when you factor inflation and how many things are always increasing in cost over time and yet wages for the majority remain stagnant. That thing that you have and rely on that just broke; try to squeeze the replacement in on your meager income.

Edited August 25, 2020 by koalayummies