Are "Big Bang Themes" a Bad Strategy?

[hagridshut]

On 7/21/2020 at 12:09 PM, Lego David said:

Ever since the great success of Ninjago in 2011, LEGO seems to have shifted their business model from having just casual original themes to having mostly just Big Bang Original Themes. In case you aren't familiar with what a "Big Bang Theme" is, it's an original LEGO theme that is planned to last for at least three years, and gets a lot of marketing push in the first year in order to create a "Big Bang" in terms of sales. On the surface, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with such themes, until you realize that all the Big Bang themes we've gotten so far have been more or less just Ninjago clones. Chima, Nexo Knights, and recently Monkie Kid have all tried to emulate Ninjago's success while simultaneously competing against it, and for the most part, they have all failed more or less. Chima tanked in it's third year, Nexo Knights was cut short very early on, and while we don't know yet about how well Monkie Kid sold, I have a feeling it would also suffer a similar fate as the other two (especially when you consider how overpriced the sets are). 

So, what do you think? Are Big Bang Themes a bad strategy for LEGO? Should LEGO keep pursuing them, or should they return to more casual original themes, like in the late 2000's and early 2010's? 

I believe that in general, outside of licensed themes, LEGO should stay away from themes with very pre-defined stories.  Much of LEGO's appeal is being able to build one's own creations and create one's own stories.  That's what I did with my friends when I was a child.  We had our own space, and castle, and pirate domains.  The adventures that unfolded were largely our own.  

For a "Big Bang" theme to work, I think 2 things need to happen: (1) The story has to have wide, mass market appeal, and (2) The set designs must be great. 

An uninteresting or otherwise lackluster storyline won't sell sets, because the boring-ness of the preexisting story may limit the imagination of the target market base.  In more concrete terms, a child who is bored by the theme content (video episodes, comic books, etc.) might not feel compelled to buy (or ask a parent to purchase) the sets, regardless of the excellence of the set design or the usefulness of the pieces. 

Great set design is necessary to get people to feel that the magic of the content has been transferred into their hands while they build and play with the various models.  

It's difficult to simultaneously get both the story and the set design right for the target audience.  

I think that LEGO should focus on what they do best: getting set design right, and leave the creation of the story to the customer.  The Creator Expert and Creator 3-in-1 sets are examples of sets with mostly excellent design and piece content, which allow the builder the freedom to imagine almost anything in terms of what happens to the creations and characters.  There are already plenty of licensed themes for the kids who want experience a preexisting story through LEGO.  I don't see why LEGO must compete with Star Wars or Harry Potter in terms of selling story content.

[BrickJagger]

Ninjago is an overfunded art project at this stage. It's a sprawling mess of snakes, skeletons and convoluted lore that will culminate in a modern version of Bionicle's cult fanbase that Lego tries desperately to ignore. Ninjago has some interesting parts and whatnot, but if I wanted parts I'd buy them in bulk online rather than overpaying for a 45th "mech". Its siblings have become increasingly mangled and unholy ever since, to the point where the $200 gigunta warrior mongo monkey mech is now a thing and takes up half of a store shelf. If you're tired of that, you can opt for The Fortrex: Black and Purple Edition instead!

Lego has also decided that it's no longer necessary to have generic characters. Big Bang themes started that trend but it's somehow made its way into... City? I don't know about anyone else, but I don't see a need for a Star Wars: Expanded Universe style backstory for Train Passenger #3. I don't think that it would kill them to pump out some generic knights and spacemen every once and a while. Would you rather have random figures, or a dozen Jacks and Parkers?

 

[Mylenium]

8 hours ago, danth said:

As a lifetime fan of Star Wars and space ships, I think Star Wars is creatively bankrupt in spaceship design at this point and isn't spoiling anyone.

...and then the High Republic comes along. See? I find such statements at best premature and you just need to watch the various "Making of..."s to see how many ideas are still out there that never made it to screen. That's actually my point - as Karl Lagerfeld once said "The (design) trashcan is my best client.". Great design means scrapping a lot of ideas before arriving at one that actually makes it out there. Unfortunately people seem to have the mistaken impression that design is a self-fulfilling promise and that's just not the case. Many things you may take granted as great design, be that in architecture, car design or even everyday utilities were birthed on heaps of wasted sketch paper...

Don't get me wrong: I agree that Disney/ Lucas are control freaks and not least of all the forced reset with the latest trilogy about what's canon and what not has nixed many great ideas and concepts, but at the same time I don't think the situation is as bad as you seem to think. Again, a lot of stuff simply doesn't make it out of the labs and specific to LEGO it's only natural that they cannot do unapproved/ unreleased designs that conflict with the powers to be...

8 hours ago, danth said:

I don't think LEGO would have any trouble cranking out amazing space ship designs. The designers at LEGO are pretty genius, and LEGO Spaceship history is full of great, original, and unique designs. Like Starfleet Voyager or Stardefender 200.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Personally I don't care for these schlock-y B-movie designs, neither as a sci-fi and science nerd, nor as a graphics designer from an aesthetics point of view. The rose-tinted nostalgia is lost on me, anyway, being that I do LEGO only for four years now. And, grand statement here, those designs look backwards as in the system having dictated how they look, not the design having been applied to the system. Either way, the original point also sticks: You have to "design" a ton of drafts before one makes it and I can't see LEGO being able to do that on a level that I would find competitive. LEGO just doesn't have 20 people that just scribble spaceship designs all day while the other designers take care to convert them into models...

Mylenium

[Lego David]

14 hours ago, danth said:

I don't think LEGO would have any trouble cranking out amazing space ship designs. The designers at LEGO are pretty genius, and LEGO Spaceship history is full of great, original, and unique designs. Like Starfleet Voyager or Stardefender 200.

And not just the older ones, but the newer ones too: 

 

LEGO has proven time and time again that their designers can pull off amazing unique and original Space Ship designs, yet they continue sticking to the dull, repetitive and boring Star Wars ships that a as @danth pointed out, haven't even changed much in the past 20 years. 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Lego David

[TeriXeri]

A new Space Police would be nice, with a little bit less technic panels, and maybe more angled plates instead.

Even Dragonball Super has a Space Police (also called Galactic Patrol / Galaxy Patrol ), that go after villains on planets.

Edited July 28, 2020 by TeriXeri

[astral brick]

13 hours ago, hagridshut said:

I believe that in general, outside of licensed themes, LEGO should stay away from themes with very pre-defined stories.  Much of LEGO's appeal is being able to build one's own creations and create one's own stories.  That's what I did with my friends when I was a child.  We had our own space, and castle, and pirate domains.  The adventures that unfolded were largely our own. 

So true. Apparently people even need to be told what to imagine nowadays.

[astral brick]

8 hours ago, Mylenium said:

You have to "design" a ton of drafts before one makes it and I can't see LEGO being able to do that on a level that I would find competitive. LEGO just doesn't have 20 people that just scribble spaceship designs all day while the other designers take care to convert them into models...

Certainly it is much more easy to copy than to create, and this basic reasoning can be applied to every licensed theme. But I am confident that the same builders forced to reproduce other designers' works 9 to 5, have so many ideas in their drawers which are waiting to get an opportunity.  

[danth]

16 hours ago, Mylenium said:

Either way, the original point also sticks: You have to "design" a ton of drafts before one makes it and I can't see LEGO being able to do that on a level that I would find competitive. LEGO just doesn't have 20 people that just scribble spaceship designs all day while the other designers take care to convert them into models...

You know what the original design inspiration for the Millenium Falcon was? A hamburger. And it turned out pretty cool.

I think any future Lego Space sets are gonna be just fine.

[icm]

Here's an interesting read about that:

https://kitbashed.com/blog/a-complete-history-of-the-millennium-falcon

[MAB]

On 7/26/2020 at 2:37 PM, BitByBrick said:

The ideas Exo Suit set 6 years ago could have paved the way for a re-birth of the Classic space theme. It was there for the taking. Sadly the only follow up will be an orange classic spaceman in an upcoming book. (you could also probably count Benny’s Space Squad set from TLM2) Maybe LEGO could do Classic Space as a “Big Bang” theme? Run it for only 3 years. I would even settle for 2 years, if it was done well. Thoughts? 

Remember the exo-suit did not seem to sell that well. They had to advertise the "decommissioning phase", which was then extended when they still did not sell out. Another important point is what do you mean by Classic Space? As the exo-suit was not Classic Space. LEGO could re-release 1980s sets or update 1980s designs or they could do a new in-house space theme as they have done multiple times in the not too distant past. Re-released 1980s sets probably would not sell so well, as they don't look great compared to what is on the shelves these days. They could update, and some Classic Space would complain it is not real Classic Space. Or they go for new ideas for space, and people complain again they are not Classic Space.

On 7/28/2020 at 3:45 AM, hagridshut said:

I believe that in general, outside of licensed themes, LEGO should stay away from themes with very pre-defined stories.  Much of LEGO's appeal is being able to build one's own creations and create one's own stories.  That's what I did with my friends when I was a child.  We had our own space, and castle, and pirate domains.  The adventures that unfolded were largely our own.  

For a "Big Bang" theme to work, I think 2 things need to happen: (1) The story has to have wide, mass market appeal, and (2) The set designs must be great. 

Presumably you also knew how to play space, castle and pirates. Your play would probably have drawn on stories you already knew. 

Give a kid this set, and I imagine they will act out stories like Robin Hood, based on what they already know.

This set and they'll act out stories of Blackbeard or similar pirates, based no what they already know.

 

Give a kid a set based on something that they cannot relate to based on what they have already experienced, and it is much harder to play with and come up with new adventures if you don't know anything about the characters.

[Mylenium]

4 hours ago, MAB said:

Another important point is what do you mean by Classic Space? As the exo-suit was not Classic Space.

Utterly irrelevant IMO. It simply comes down to people's expectations and things having moved on considerably. What worked only 10 years ago may no longer work today other than some people getting nostalgic over the good old days.

Mylenium

[hagridshut]

On 7/31/2020 at 5:41 AM, MAB said:

Presumably you also knew how to play space, castle and pirates. Your play would probably have drawn on stories you already knew. 

This set and they'll act out stories of Blackbeard or similar pirates, based no what they already know.

 

Give a kid a set based on something that they cannot relate to based on what they have already experienced, and it is much harder to play with and come up with new adventures if you don't know anything about the characters.

Of the two sets, I have direct experience with the Black Seas Barracuda, because I helped a family member build one when I was a child.  I knew about sailing ships generally, and had read books about Spanish galleons, European explorers, and pirates.  

So yes, I did draw on prior knowledge, but it was mostly general stuff.

Naming the characters, deciding where they will travel, who their allies and rivals are, and all the details, were up to me and the friends/family I built LEGO sets with.  This is different from a theme like Ninjago, where the minifigures already have extensive stories and specific details established through a television series.  

[TeriXeri]

13 minutes ago, hagridshut said:

Naming the characters, deciding where they will travel, who their allies and rivals are, and all the details, were up to me and the friends/family I built LEGO sets with.  This is different from a theme like Ninjago, where the minifigures already have extensive stories and specific details established through a television series.  

Same here. I got the Enchanted Island set in 1994, but didn't know the leader was named King Kahuka until I played the LEGO Racers game which came out 5 years later on Nintendo 64.

To me, they were mostly resembling Easter Island people as those statues of big heads are in books or documentaries.

Edited August 1, 2020 by TeriXeri

[MAB]

On 8/1/2020 at 1:08 PM, hagridshut said:

Naming the characters, deciding where they will travel, who their allies and rivals are, and all the details, were up to me and the friends/family I built LEGO sets with.  This is different from a theme like Ninjago, where the minifigures already have extensive stories and specific details established through a television series.  

You don't have to watch the TV series though. My son really enjoyed Chima sets when they first came out but didn't see the cartoons until about 4 years later. He used to have lions and crocs as allies against all the birds.

 

Yet even if you do watch the TV series or read the magazines, you can still make up your own adventures based on what you know about the characters just like you can make up your own adventures based on what you know about the stereotypical characters in pirate or Robin Hood style stories, whether you read them in books or saw them in movies or on TV.