VERY RARE Micromotors 2986 from the 90'

[1974]

LEGO prototype parts I used to own hundreds of those, probably the largest documented collection in the world. TLG didn't ask anything, BL did, after they were aquired by TLG

You can pm me for documentation if you like

[QQriQ]

17 hours ago, Lasse D said:

Yeah. You probably have a small fortune on your hands there since these are made on official equipment and with LEGO logos.

Fun fact about the micromotor. These were unbelievably expensive to produce. The micromotor did in some sets cost LEGO more to produce than what the set was sold for! Mismanagement of funds like this was one of the reasons for the financial troubles in the late '90s and early '00s. Even the Technic space shuttle was sold at a loss! LEGO has since then introduced strict control of production cost for all of their parts, and the price of some parts even vary based on color.

I think the reason for the financial troubles was not the price of the motors which were produced in Hungary!!!!!!

For example we sold Motor 43362 in 1999 to LEGO for 6.12 DM/pc it means 3,3 USD or 3,1 EUR in 1999 and this price included the value of the materials what we used, the personal costs and a little profit. 
 :-) :-) :-)  ONE MOTOR's (43362) PRICE  was 3,3 USD :-) :-) :-)
The previous "modell" the "heavier" 71427 was a little bit more expensive, but we redisigned the 71427 that we get cheaper motor with same performance. 
(Just in brackets: this cheaper type had much more better quality)

Or one more example We sold the Train motors for 6,41 DM->3,4 USD->3,3 EUR to LEGO

I think the reason for the financial troubles was the big change in the toy market. (computer games; tamagochi; price of the RC models, ect, ect) and the LEGO reacted to late to the changes.

[Gray Gear]

Intresting to hear some insider informations 

[Lasse D]

1 hour ago, QQriQ said:

I think the reason for the financial troubles was not the price of the motors which were produced in Hungary!!!!!!

For example we sold Motor 43362 in 1999 to LEGO for 6.12 DM/pc it means 3,3 USD or 3,1 EUR in 1999 and this price included the value of the materials what we used, the personal costs and a little profit. 
 :-) :-) :-)  ONE MOTOR's (43362) PRICE  was 3,3 USD :-) :-) :-)
The previous "modell" the "heavier" 71427 was a little bit more expensive, but we redisigned the 71427 that we get cheaper motor with same performance. 
(Just in brackets: this cheaper type had much more better quality)

Or one more example We sold the Train motors for 6,41 DM->3,4 USD->3,3 EUR to LEGO

I think the reason for the financial troubles was the big change in the toy market. (computer games; tamagochi; price of the RC models, ect, ect) and the LEGO reacted to late to the changes.

How come you didn't quote the price of the micromotor, you know, the only motor I was specifically referring to? My comment was not an attack on your national identity. It was insights into the problems that LEGO was faced with back in the days where they nearly went bankrupt. Notice also how I said it was one of the issues - not THE single issue. Big companies rarely fail due to a single problem. And if you want to point out the leading problem, then I would claim it was the juniorization of the product line which drove customers away. However. That can only be a claim on my side - I do not have any insights to back up that this is the leading issue, only that it appears to be the worst.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Lasse D
Typo.

[MAB]

I've never seen one of the retail ones, do these have the LEGO logos on?

I can understand LEGO wanting to bring production of everything under their own factory control, if external companies like this were allowing employees to make their own LEGO parts out of hours since it allows non-approved items to reach the market - especially if they have LEGO markings on them but are not approved by LEGO. 

[agrof]

I don't think it is a big deal. Decades ago some guys had some fun, a fistful extra parts were produced (no extra full secret shifts in the plant). No business interest was harmed. 

We have a cool story with some very interesting insights, let's appreciate this. I know, I do. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by agrof

[Conchas]

Here, special micromotors too!
Same rarity, same story... :D 

 

[QQriQ]

4 hours ago, Lasse D said:

How come you didn't quote the price of the micromotor, you know, the only motor I was specifically referring to? My comment was not an attack on your national identity. It was insights into the problems that LEGO was faced with back in the days where they nearly went bankrupt. Notice also how I said it was one of the issues - not THE single issue. Big companies rarely fail due to a single problem. And if you want to point out the leading problem, then I would claim it was the juniorization of the product line which drove customers away. However. That can only be a claim on my side - I do not have any insights to back up that this is the leading issue, only that it appears to be the worst.

Unfortunately I do not remember the price of the micromotor but I am sure it was not much more than the 43362's. The price was not in "other dimension".
BUT YES, The material cost of micromotor 2986 was a little bit higher and we spent more time to produce 1 pcs 2986 than 43362. (but the personal costs was very low In Hungary so it is not big effect) so it could be more expensive than the 43362 but only a little bit. 
I do not think if one (~4-5 USD) motor could makes setts (e.g Technic space shuttle) unprofitable.

The reason of the loss-making years of LEGO had to be much deeper. (as you wrote too)

Micromotor was one "technical diamond". This motor contained lot of technical miracall,- tecnical solution which was not "general" in the 90'  (planetary gear from plastic, miniatur collectors; flat rotor; ect) (and from very low budget) . Nevertheless, or exactly that's why it was not good idea to use in toy. I think this motor was not suitable for what LEGO wanted. Although I do not know what they wanted when launched design tender for the motor.  The main target was put motor to 2x2 LEGO cube but we do not know  (I think) what the motor will exactly drive.

I seen only one time our micromotor in LEGO set. It was a ship and the motor drive the radar.  The assambled lego parts amplified the motor's nois. It was horrible. If my children played with this ship more than 5 minutes I would throw out the toy.

"My comment was not an attack on your national identity." I know and I have never thougt this. Why did you think that i think this? :-)

PS: I wll try to find the micromotor's transfer price.

3 hours ago, MAB said:

I've never seen one of the retail ones, do these have the LEGO logos on?

I can understand LEGO wanting to bring production of everything under their own factory control, if external companies like this were allowing employees to make their own LEGO parts out of hours since it allows non-approved items to reach the market - especially if they have LEGO markings on them but are not approved by LEGO. 

:-) Nobody allowed us to make these parts and the police does not allowe speeding too ;-)

and they have never reach the market YET. 

[QQriQ]

1 hour ago, Conchas said:

Here, special micromotors too!
Same rarity, same story... :D 

 

Wow; one of my old colleague sold this motor.

Could you please tell me when and what was the price? (if it is not secret)

We produce about 30 pcs from transparent. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by QQriQ

[MAB]

41 minutes ago, QQriQ said:

:-) Nobody allowed us to make these parts and the police does not allowe speeding too ;-)

and they have never reach the market YET. 

I was meaning that if you were allowed to work alone and unsupervised and also remove remove parts from the factory, then the company has allowed it due to lack of security. LEGO has gone to a model where they own the factories and do not subcontract parts making - presumably as they control both the quality and also the security of parts. These days they cannot have lone workers making their own coloured parts and taking them from the factory. Of course, lots of not-for-retail parts also used to escape LEGO's own factories, but their security seems to have increased these days.

 

 

[QQriQ]

9 minutes ago, MAB said:

I was meaning that if you were allowed to work alone and unsupervised and also remove remove parts from the factory, then the company has allowed it due to lack of security. LEGO has gone to a model where they own the factories and do not subcontract parts making - presumably as they control both the quality and also the security of parts. These days they cannot have lone workers making their own coloured parts and taking them from the factory. Of course, lots of not-for-retail parts also used to escape LEGO's own factories, but their security seems to have increased these days.

 

 

Yes I understand ;-) and I can agree with LEGO's decision ;-)

 

[Conchas]

42 minutes ago, QQriQ said:

Wow; one of my old colleague sold this motor.

Could you please tell me when and what was the price? (if it is not secret)

We produce about 30 pcs from transparent. 

I bought this one about 10-12 years ago.
I'll reach you via PM.

[KevinMD]

Thanks for sharing your story @QQriQ, interesting read!

[dr_spock]

On 6/25/2020 at 3:04 AM, QQriQ said:

Ok I have just added the "story" to the main post

Fun story.  Was it a small company you worked for?  Times were different back then.

[QQriQ]

6 hours ago, MAB said:

I've never seen one of the retail ones, do these have the LEGO logos on?

I can understand LEGO wanting to bring production of everything under their own factory control, if external companies like this were allowing employees to make their own LEGO parts out of hours since it allows non-approved items to reach the market - especially if they have LEGO markings on them but are not approved by LEGO. 

I forgot to write the company was in 100% LEGO property, but the CEO and the all leading team were Hungarian

[MAB]

5 minutes ago, QQriQ said:

I forgot to write the company was in 100% LEGO property, but the CEO and the all leading team were Hungarian

OK. Thanks for sharing the little bit of history too.

I think they have tightened up factory security all over now. It used to be that people "liberated" minifigures long before their release date that helped fuel rumours about sets. It is much less frequent now.

[JaBaCaDaBra]

3 hours ago, QQriQ said:

LEGO markings on them but are not approved by LEGO

Yes, a real crime.
Death sentence, electric chair.

Put an electric chair on Idea's and execute these people with genuine Lego cause they used a Lego mold to try out other colors.
oh men what a crime.

Edited June 26, 2020 by JaBaCaDaBra

[Lasse D]

3 hours ago, QQriQ said:

(...)

 

PS: I wll try to find the micromotor's transfer price.

 

That would be awesome, as I do not recall who told me the story of the price. It was most likely during one of those tours in Billund from way before LEGO House.

 

The comment regarding nationality was because you shouted (used many exclamation marks) in your initial response where you mentioned Hungary. Intend doesn't translate into text. I had not brought up any points regarding nations or legal points, so I just wanted to make it clear that I don't have any ill thoughts about anyone because of their nationality.

[QQriQ]

1 hour ago, dr_spock said:

Fun story.  Was it a small company you worked for?  Times were different 

The motor was designed by BRG about 1989-90.  BRG was the biggest Radio Technic Company in Hungary. It mainly produced equipments to the Russia market (military) when the communist regime fails the company lost the all market and went bankrupt. This time the motor and the production technik was 95% ready, so the LEGO establish the LMM Kft-t (LMM Ltd) LMM short form of Lego Micro Motors. Until the produktion did not start we were about 10-20, but later the staff increased to 280-300 persons. We designed and started to produce the motor 43362 (we called GEAR motor) and lot of products were moved from Billund to LMM e.g. RCX, Train motors, Basic motor, Mybot, watches and lot of other thing The company was 100% LEGO property but to be honest I can counting in my left hand how many times we saw leaders or visitors from Billund. This times were different as you wrote !!

[QQriQ]

55 minutes ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

Yes, a real crime.
Death sentence, electric chair.

Put an electric chair on Idea's and execute these people with genuine Lego cause they used a Lego mold to try out other colors.
oh men what a crime.

:-) 

We did not think to sell the motors. it was just an idea of a few bored workers. :-) We made them for ourselves for fun :-)

But I have just realised what a big sin we commited. I  am thinking about i will sent my all rare things to Billund with one apology letter or i will throw out them ;-)

[JaBaCaDaBra]

If I were you I wouldn't even read the posts that certain people place with their pointing fingers.
It are the same people that take paperclips etc home from their work and complain that there are so many thieves.

You know, I really understand that you experimented with it.
I probably would have done the same and maybe some more.

In the mean time, you have some really rare genuine Lego parts around
And yes, it's genuine since it was made with Lego molds and Lego ABS in a Lego plant by Lego employees

Edited June 26, 2020 by JaBaCaDaBra

[whitswj]

/

Edited December 3, 2021 by whitswj

[Conchas]

3 minutes ago, whitswj said:

Ah, This is all in fun. Lots of molds, lots of parts and lots of different reasons why they were made. I would love to see some the other of unique parts that you have.

https://flickr.com/photos/66166063@N07/sets/72157664349312823

Have some of these too!

And what about 3D printed / manually painted pre-production (showroom) elements... anyone?

[whitswj]

/

Edited December 3, 2021 by whitswj

[Conchas]

46 minutes ago, whitswj said:

They are intriguing but I have always thought twice about buying 3D printed parts since it is so difficult to confirm that they are really from Lego.

Unless you manage to get them from LEGO...

Ofc if you would want to sell them, it will be hard to convince someone they're really from LEGO. But as I'm not willing to sell, I'm fine with it.