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Whatever happened to the 9V Hobby Train "Line"?

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I was discussing this afternoon with my fellow club members about the 10183 Hobby Train and the whole Save 9V campaign from 2006-2008. If I recall correctly, at one point in time, before ditching the 9V Line all together, there was an idea that Lego would continue the 9V line as the Hobby Train Line, with the RC line being the 'kids' line. There were rumours about other radii and all that kind of stuff. You know, like the good old 12V times.

Or, at least... That's how I remember it. But my fellow club members say I'm making up stuff, and that I remembered this wrongly, it was just the Hobby Train 10183, and nothing more... And for some reason I can't find anything about the whole Hobby Train Line, because internet is being clogged with talk about 10183 (turns out 15 years later it DOES sell!) instead of the whole Line.

So, my question is: Whatever happened to the Hobby Train Line?!

/Edit: found this gem in my collection, seems my mind at least wasn't totally playing tricks on me!

Lego Hobby Train LineLego Hobby Train LineLego Hobby Train Line

 

Edited by raised
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To me it is sad TLG didn't go through with this plan.  It would have saved us from a lot of work. Think about it, people are willing to spend $120 on 1 loop of track when a loop of r40 is $10.  We would kill for r120 that cheap. And this would have been a great setup. 12v could have been the equvalent of pre war lional O/STD gauge trains. 9v could've been our modern 2 rail O gauge trains with dcc, sound, sick speed control and amazing relism. But now we are stuck with the equvalent of a lional Cheapo RTR set that looks like a box with a boiler and wheels. 

 

10-O-scale-locos-2-rail.jpg

2 rail O gauge- what this hobby could've been.

image.jpeg.cb3c9204c856eb6bbdbb89e159f6fb65.jpeg

12v- it's equvalent

711729-01.jpg

What we have.

 

-Conner

PS if this has bad grammer spell check wasn't working. 

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Cool find! Man, that's sad that this didn't happen. Maybe with Lego starting to dedicate more resources to AFOLs something like this could make a comeback. I doubt anytime soon, but one can hope, haha!

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TLDR: I take the double crossover to indicate that Lego was trying to aim the AFOLs at the RC trains rather than 9v in 2007.

========

At the end of 9v I do not recall any hinting at keeping 9v alive for AFOL. Between 2001 and 2006 Lego made a big effort to reach out to the lego train community both in terms of sets (Super Chief, BNSF, hobby train). That was their first venture into AFOL groups with the formation of the "Lego Train Clubs." I believe Lego had a presence at the lego train display at NMRA 2005 and were scheduled to do so again in 2006 but pulled out at the last minute and never came back. Jacob McKee was the main force behind all of that and I THINK he left Lego right before the 2005 NMRA show. Under McKee AFOL = lego club, and it was the start of their outreach to adult fans.

The Hobby Train was a poor performer. I was not involved with it but I know a lot of people who were. What I recall from talking with them is that development took a couple of years, after finishing the first round of designs everything was scrapped and they had to start anew. They fought hard and won for train doors, but lost big on some color other than red. The implementation of the Hobby Train was flawed in many ways, (i) few rare parts in the set, (ii) what rare parts were also simultaneously available on the just launched online PaB/Factory, (iii) most instructions were only available in pdf form, which was a big factor back then, and (iv) maybe 1 yr into what would likely have been a 2-3 year run of the set a child died after ingesting magnets from a different toy so Lego discontinued the old 9v style of magnets. Instead of updating the set to the new magnets they blew it out at clearance (50% off I think).

In the meantime, trains were one of maybe 5-10 specific themes on the Lego Factory site, and I THINK that is where they were trying to move the AFOL train community. But the limited parts selection was a killer.

I'm not sure what went on between 2006 and 2008 at lego, but there was a mild movement of "Save 9V" among the train fans. No one embraced the RC trains of 2006 (7897 and 7898) that came between 9v and PF, as a result, the now coveted double crossover (7996)  from 2007 that I think was meant to entice AFOLs to the plastic track had little demand. Most but not all of the AFOLs stuck with 9v until it was discontinued. Lego upped the game in 2009 with the EN, which I think was announced at the same time the 9v track was discontinued. Along with the EN came the rechargeable battery box, the PF train controller, and flex track (which was originally targeted at AFOLs believe it or not... and in concept I guess that did make sense had it been better implemented). It was not until 2010 that we got PF train elements (AAA battery box and train motor)

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Thanks @zephyr1934 for your good summary of the #10183 Hobby Train history and other train related developments in the mid 2000's from TLC. Being one of the Hobby Train contributors I still have memories about that time. It must have been more then 3.500 emails in our group and steps forwards and backwards. First we had to sign the NDA of course, then TLC send over a bunch of LEGO elements in many, many different colours, a few real "train elements". First prototypes looked like a MOC build by a 4-year-old.

10183-first-colour-palette-highspeed-eng
(can' remember who build this high-speed engine)

10183-first-colour-palette-train.jpg
My contribution from the first colour palette we received from LEGO

 

The AFOLs in the group argued, that this kind of colour palette will never work for a universal train building set. At least we could compromise on a basic main colour (which became standard red rather dark red which we all favoured), black as standard train colour for trucks, boggies etc. and a few other colours like white and grey for some highlights. So the second palette of elements (which is the one to be found in the final set) worked much better. Of course we told TLC that dark red/dark green would be even more cooler and more attractive for AFOLs then red. But no way, no new elements for such a set, it was not Star Wars or Bionicle, it was an experiment in the train niche. From that point of view, we got out as much as we could.

10183-second-colour-palette-engine2.jpg
The second palette of elements was better, still not perfect.

10183-second-colour-palette-engine1.jpg
LEGO did not send out all elements for the second, final palette of elements so we had to use stuff from our own collection. As you see, 2x2 airplane windows in red were not in my collection back then.

10183-second-colour-palette-crocodile.jp
Finally the Crocodile arises and was elected amoung the AFOLs from the Hobby Train group as flagship model for this set. So it became the largest one on the box and the only model LEGO made printed instructions.

 

And we were fighting delays and the official end of 9V was announce before the hobby train set was released. so the Box front pictures shows all the MOCs with the old 9V motor. And extra label was introduced to point out, that the motor is no included. But there was no chance to rebuild everything for the upcoming bridge-technology RC trains (which sucks). Another reason for the delay was a simple element like the 2x4 plate. Very close to the end we were told that the yearly production of all 2x4 plates for all sets in this year is over and there are no more 2x4 plates for the Hobby Train set. It should be easy to replace a 2x4 plate with a 2x 1x4 plates (which were offered instead). Hmm, that would have worked for half of the models, the other half would require 2x 2x2 plates as replacement better then 2x 1x4 plates. And noone in the group felt like to have enough enthusiasm to rebuild all the models again. The only option was to postpone the release date again and wait till 2x4 plate were produced in the next production run. Sometime even the simple things can get annoying.

Similar thing happened to the instructions. There was no budget to make a book of instructions for all models, in the sametime the "LEGO Digital Designer" was launched and the Hobby Train set should promote the new LDD approach. The instruction for the flagship model – the Crocodile – was finalised so late in the process and all the boxes were already packed. To this set is maybe the only official LEGO set were the instructions comes separately outside the box. So beware if you are able to get a MISB box of #10183 expecting a printed instruction *inside* the box: there is none.

Looking back in history the Hobby Train set was a great demonstration how LEGO started to interact with a group of fans (rather then single fans designing sets like the #3739 Blacksmith Shop or the fantastic Santa Fe cars #10022 and #10025 from James Mathis and some other later). And it started a few AFOL workshops were fans were invited to Billund/DK to share expectations and build with LEGO designers. During one of these workshops the "flex track idea" was born, a compromise asking for larger curve radii which LEGO didn't want to make. So the flex track sounded good, but as mentioned before, it could not fulfill the expectations. We were also playing around with (back these days) *new* Power Function stuff and the design of the 4x8 PF battery box is heavily influenced by train fans asking for something which can be integrated in a 6-wide train rather then the huge AA PF battery box which was used many in LEGO Technic. And we asked for a train compatible remote control rather then the #8885 bang-bang remote used in Technic. So the #8879 speed remote control was born.

All history … these days we see the next generation Power System (Powered Up) and I will not become a friend of that technology. And it still seems unclear how LEGO will keep trains alive. Clip in wheels are horrible, trains in LEGO city hardly exist. On the other side the upcoming Crocodile shows that even LEGO designers can create great looking, AFOL-like trains. But I do not expect so see other great engines over the next years like the do with iconic cars. Even not talking about "just a passenger coach" set where you can buy multi sets to create your own train.

But as a LEGO train fan each LEGO set can be a train accessory set providing elements I can use in my LEGO train MOCs. And the third party market is getting better and better providing switches and curves in sizes, rods and other stuff we just could dream of back in 2007.

I hope this gave you an more inside view about the Hobby Train set and the time it was developed and release. Feel free to post further questions ...

Holger

 

P.S. I found an old FAQ about the Hobby Train set (links will not work anymore, the FAQ was written back in 2007):

What is the official name of this set?
It is called LEGO Hobby Train. The project to develop this set was called Ultimate Train Builders (UTB).

How many pieces are included in this set?
1,080 LEGO elements.

Why didn't you use dark red, dark green, or dark blue?
None of these colors were available in sufficient number of different elements to make them a main color. Dark red is represented in the set.

Why red, black, gray, and white?
These colors are available in a large variety of shapes.

How were you guys chosen?
LEGO asked ILTCO, represented by Steve Barile, to suggest a group of the 10 best LEGO train designers in the world. Steve suggested a list of great train designers that he had experience with that represented an international group. This list was then reduced to the six open slots by the original four AFOLs on this project, some outside consulting AFOLs, and the LEGO employees on the project. The group assembled certainly represents some of the best LEGO train designers but we are among a much larger group of great LEGO train designers. And we also want to acknowledge that the level of quality achieved has been the cumulative work through interaction of the greater LEGO train community.

What did you get for your efforts?
Each designer got 3 LEGO Hobby Train sets and a large bulk assortment of LEGO elements. Why is there a picture of the 9v motor and track on the box if it's not in the box? The decision to show each design on a piece of track and some of them with the 9v motor was made because it looked good. In retrospect, we realize that it can be interpreted as if tracks and motor is included, which they are not. This is also communicated on the front and the back of the box.

How much does it cost?
USA: 99.99 USD Canada: 129.99 CAD Australia: 149.99 AUD Europe (Euro zone): 99.99 EURO UK: 69.99 GBP

Why is LEGO counting each wheel set as four pieces?
Because the elements are not preassembled. A wheel set is included as several individual elements in the box. Who picked the models? The 30 models were picked from 76 designs through voting among the 10 LEGO hobby train fan designers.

Who picked the parts?
Within the limitations of available parts, the selection was a collaborative effort between the 10 LEGO Hobby Train fan designers and the LEGO Group.

Is this set only available in the US?
No, it will be available in all markets where LEGO Direct To Consumer is present. Is it right that no Building Instructions are included and they will be offered (for free) as download. A printed building instruction for the main model will be available with the set. This one and 29 additional building instructions will be available for free download from March 19th on http://www.LEGOFactory.com/buildinginstructions

Do I need a special software to use the Building Instructions I've downloaded?
You need LEGO Digital Designer 2.0 which will be available for free download from March 19th on http://ldd.lego.com How was the box art developed? Please visit http://www.ldraw.org for further information on the development of the box art.

(Update: You can still find PDF instructions for all models at http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=306136)

Why is a letter-tile used at the front side of the main engine, the crocodile?
A letter-tile is not only a letter tile. It also could be a plate showing technical data of the loco. While using the same palette of elements for various models you have to be creative in the way you use certain elements. Someone even was able to build a truck out of elements dedicated to be “train” elements.

Can you describe the development process of this box, e.g. what did it make for a part to be in the box or not?
Please check out the article in BrickJournal #7 at http://www.brickjournal.com for more background information.

 

 

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Sigh.  A crying shame.  Lego did not do right by this set (I have two of them, by the way).  For a while after it came out you could buy 9v motors from S@H, so I bought a few that way.  You guys put in a horrendous amount of work, and the way that TLG handled it a great deal of it was wasted.

Now, what I remember hearing about the end of 9v was that sometime before this kit was ready the machine that crimped the metal onto the 9v plastic track broke.  Lego looked at how much it would cost to replace and weighed that against the sales of the 9v line, and decided to drop both the track and the rolling stock.  The death of the child came after that decision, which I guess made TLG even more convinced that the had made the right decision.

My memory could be making things up, of course. ...

Metta,

Ivan

 

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On 6/9/2020 at 4:49 AM, raised said:

Lego Hobby Train Line

Man what a beautiful selection. Being a kid picking from that would have been a hard choice. 

But looking at the prices.. 100+ euros just for the electrical components, when now I bought an entire set with rails, train and motors etc for less. I can see why 9V had to go.

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I wish TLG went through with the "Advanced" train line with true flex track and high radii curves. 

 

But what would be great if we had an advanced 9v system is that we could use model railroader tools such as, digitrax, DCC, Blocks, Scale speed controllers(mth has one so you can make you trains go 50 scale miles per hour).  And with DCC and all of the nice hardware, we could've just used 2rail O gauge stuff and slightly modify it for L-Gauge. 

 

 

-Conner

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12 hours ago, ivanlan9 said:

Now, what I remember hearing about the end of 9v was that sometime before this kit was ready the machine that crimped the metal onto the 9v plastic track broke.  Lego looked at how much it would cost to replace and weighed that against the sales of the 9v line, and decided to drop both the track and the rolling stock.  The death of the child came after that decision, which I guess made TLG even more convinced that the had made the right decision.

As it was related to me, Lego would make the plastic of the 9v track, ship it all off site to have the metal applied, ship it back. The crimping machines (or the guides for the rails) were wearing out. So they ran them until they got to the end of the line and then stopped there. It wasn't an unforeseen end point, rather, a decision not to renew the machines. The main factor was that they did not make money on the 9v track even at $2 per segment retail (at least compared to strictly plastic elements).

 

14 minutes ago, Coal Fired Bricks said:

But what would be great if we had an advanced 9v system is that we could use model railroader tools such as, digitrax, DCC, Blocks, Scale speed controllers(mth has one so you can make you trains go 50 scale miles per hour).  And with DCC and all of the nice hardware, we could've just used 2rail O gauge stuff and slightly modify it for L-Gauge.  

I believe that's what Michael Gale and his associates have in mind with the FX system.

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4 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

As it was related to me, Lego would make the plastic of the 9v track, ship it all off site to have the metal applied, ship it back. The crimping machines (or the guides for the rails) were wearing out. So they ran them until they got to the end of the line and then stopped there. It wasn't an unforeseen end point, rather, a decision not to renew the machines. The main factor was that they did not make money on the 9v track even at $2 per segment retail (at least compared to strictly plastic elements).

This for me is the most interesting bit. Because as I understood it (and so does the folder I added to my post), TLC was planning to keep on selling 9V through S@H / Lego Direct.

On the other hand, I might, as a teenager, have misread posts over at Lugnet.com/trains. So I thought it might be good to re-read some of those old posts...

I must admit, Lugnet is a horrible place for searching old posts, but I just re-read one by Steve Barile, back then president of ILTCO, which in my mind said "Lego is making a Hobby Train Line", but which, in retrospect, reads more like how Holger talks about it in his post, ie. not a Hobby Train Line, but just a Hobby Train... In the same way, Eric Kingsley in his role as Ambassador said the following:

  1. Quote
    1. LEGO is still finalizing the plan for what they call the LEGO Hobby Train which will be based on the current 9v system.
    2. LEGO will continue to sell the current 9v system including the train motor, metal tracks and the speed regulator through LEGO Shop at Home and LEGO Brand Retail only, from mid 2006.
    3. In early 2007 the decision will be made – based on sales performance of the 9v system during the fall of 2006 – if LEGO will continue the 9v System with metal rails after 2007.
    4. LEGO will release more information about the “LEGO Hobby Train” project in August 2006 at the latest.

    Which could be read both as this indicating there was a LINE or just a SET coming up, definately if your English wasn't that good back then (looking at myself hehe)

Then again, this post by Reinhard 'Ben' Beneke indicates that I at least wasn't the only one that was thinking that the word "Line" was meant as "a whole array of 9V products"...

HOWEVER: I might have found the culprit: Jake McKee himself. He seems to have said in a keynote that the new plastic track (and horrible RC system) line was going to be called "Play Train", thus indirectly saying that the "Hobby Train" was also a total line of products, but 9V. At that point the "Hobby Train" guys were already under NDA, so even though they already knew what was going to happen, "we" as regular Trainheads, could just guess...

Also, yes, I'm cherry picking from Lugnet. As said, horrible search function ;) (Also: wow, there was a lot of drama going on at Lugnet back then. Wow. Great site, great forum. Too bad it all fell apart at one point... But that's with almost all oldschool communities on the internets...)

 

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Thanks @HoMa and others for sharing your experiences and perspectives on the history of the Hobby Train set/line. Very interesting!  One can hope that if the new crocodile sells well that TLG might revisit this concept... we can dream, right? :classic:

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305618369_9VCatalogue.jpg.6fe1957dcd7c3f069ceb5f4156fc40f4.jpg

The LEGO train catalogue was another of Jake McKee's achievements. It was in the format of other model railway catalogues. It was a pity that it marked the end of the 'Golden' age.  

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17 hours ago, raised said:

Also, yes, I'm cherry picking from Lugnet. As said, horrible search function ;)

You could try google and limit your search to lugnet.com, very handy for sites with poor search functions

10 minutes ago, Dav1d said:

 It was a pity that it marked the end of the 'Golden' age.  

End of the SECOND golden age... 7777   (grin... or maybe sigh a someone who never owned any 12v)

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I would always see pictures of the Hobby Train in the "The Lego Book: Standing Small" and it's crazy to see how much back and forth communication went into it's creation. It's interesting to see how Lego would interact with it's fans back then, and it's kind of puzzling to see Lego take so long to introduce an adult focused train set with the Crocodile Set since the end of the 9 volt era.

I wish I was around for those 12v trains, that blue Diesel Shunter looks beautiful. 

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