New Powered Up system

[Niedzwiedzmin]

Hello everyone,

 

I was trying to figure the below down on my own browsing forums, searching for answers, reading a lot of articles from last 2 years however I did not find strict answers to my questions. I am sorry if some answers were already posted here and I did not find them. As I am about to spend some serious money (for me personally as I am not rich) on Lego Technic and I want to be able to create custom machines later I feel like I HAVE TO decide between Power Functions and Powered Up.

 

1. Is (or will) Powered Up system be customizable using Lego official App or 3rd party app? Will I be able to use Power Up motors and customize them into different than original machine so it works?

2. Should I even be coinsidering Powered Up systems for future and creating custom machines?

3. Is Power Functions a better choice for now and for future for creating custom machines? Is it easier to customize controls?

4. Are there any news or leaks that Lego will allow to customize controls of new Powered Up motors?

5. Is Power Functions better for building custom machines than Powered Up?

6. Does BuWizz or Bricks going to support and customize Powered Up?

 

I am sorry, it all feels so overwhelming as for a beginning person that has limited budget and needs to pick carefully and plan everything ahead.

[Zerobricks]

1. I suggest you check Racing Brick channel, he has awesome videos regarding PU system, here's an example:

2. PU will sooner or later replace all PF components and the change is inevitable. it also has many advantages such as accurate position sensing and integration of sesnsors from Boost and Spike.

3. PF is easier to set up and integrate, but it fails with more complex tasks such as accurate steering positioning, feedback, sensors, control of miltiple functions (over 8), limited range, programming etc...

4. Lego Powered up app (kind of) allows you to create your own profile. Again, refer to Racing Brick's channel

5. Same as question 3. Depends what you want. If you want a simple vehicle with 2 motors go with PF. If you want a complex factory assembly line with 20 motors, sensors and programming go with PU.

6. Don't know for Sbrick, but BuWizz has some plans for support, since PF is being phased out.

[M_longer]

1 hour ago, Niedzwiedzmin said:

I am sorry, it all feels so overwhelming as for a beginning person that has limited budget and needs to pick carefully and plan everything ahead.

Zawsze mogłeś spytać na polskich forach/grupach na FB ;) (you could also ask on polish LUG forums/FB groups).

[Niedzwiedzmin]

1 hour ago, Zerobricks said:

1. I suggest you check Racing Brick channel, he has awesome videos regarding PU system, here's an example:

2. PU will sooner or later replace all PF components and the change is inevitable. it also has many advantages such as accurate position sensing and integration of sesnsors from Boost and Spike.

3. PF is easier to set up and integrate, but it fails with more complex tasks such as accurate steering positioning, feedback, sensors, control of miltiple functions (over 8), limited range, programming etc...

4. Lego Powered up app (kind of) allows you to create your own profile. Again, refer to Racing Brick's channel

5. Same as question 3. Depends what you want. If you want a simple vehicle with 2 motors go with PF. If you want a complex factory assembly line with 20 motors, sensors and programming go with PU.

6. Don't know for Sbrick, but BuWizz has some plans for support, since PF is being phased out.

Thank you very much, I will be watching it today! Seems like Power Up is the way to go if we are looking for the future and building complex cranes/excavators. Thank you again for your answer! I really appreciate it.

 

43 minutes ago, M_longer said:

Zawsze mogłeś spytać na polskich forach/grupach na FB ;) (you could also ask on polish LUG forums/FB groups).

Hej, będę wdzięczny za wiadomość prywatną i jakąś pomoc wstępną lub jakieś namiary, niestety nie posiadam FB.
Hi, I will be grateful for private message with help or some contact information, unfortunately I do not have FB account.

[2GodBDGlory]

I would go with Power Functions for sure.

The Powered Up stuff will likely (eventually) allow for programmability, which is quite nice, but the motors are significantly larger, and there are no switches yet. Additionally, the hub part is quite a bit larger than the PF rechargeable/AAA battery boxes, and has no provision for recharging. There are also limitations in how many motors can be powered off of one hub (I regularly run over ten motors from my PF rechargeable battery, but one would need at least three PU hubs to accomplish that), and there is not currently any way to run multiple motors from one channel.

Finally, there is the price. I don't know what prices are like where you are, but a PU hub costs well over twice as much as a PF AA battery and two receivers, and the L and XL motors are 2-3 times the price of their PF equivalents. There are similar trends with the other components.

Perhaps the Powered Up system will improve, but currently I think the Power Functions system offers much greater flexibility at a much lower price.

[Bartybum]

PU is the way to go if you're interested in position encoding and all that more customizable basic programming stuff. Unfortunately, despite the interesting functionality of PU, in its current state it's quite inflexible/expensive for larger MOCs. You can't use more than four motors per smart hub, and there's no power distribution pieces that let you connect multiple channels to one socket. For the moment, this means that you lose space to multiple giant smart hubs. I'm sure you've seen the wonderful YouTube videos of MOCs that use 8+ motors to drive independent functions. Those are not going to be possible with PU, unless either they introduce a smart power distribution piece, or people cave in and buy another extortionately expensive smart hub. Personally, I think the second option is far likelier.

If you're mainly just interested in having basic motors drive functions, and don't care about advanced electronics, then buy a whole bunch of PF while it's still relatively cheap.

Like 2GodBDGlory said, the flexibility of PU leaves a lot to be desired at the moment.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Bartybum

[maver1ck]

Hi Guys,

I have exactly the same problem at the beginning of 2021 :)
I'm quite fresh AFOL and I'm trying to choose what to buy next.
I already have 42043, 42077 and 42095. Next one will be for sure 42082 (as discontinued this is last moment for buy it)

The question is what next: 42030 or 42114? Power Functions or Powered Up ?

In a long term perspective I think all the flag models with Lego will have Powered Up motors and hubs. So going Power Functions can be quite obsolete way.
And you can buy Liebherr for all the motors you need.

What do you think ?

Edited January 9, 2021 by maver1ck

[1gor]

21 minutes ago, maver1ck said:

Hi Guys,

I have exactly the same problem at the beginning of 2021 :)
I'm quite fresh AFOL and I'm trying to choose what to buy next.
I already have 42043, 42077 and 42095. Next one will be for sure 42082 (as discontinued this is last moment for buy it)

The question is what next: 42030 or 42114? Power Functions or Powered Up ?

In a long term perspective I think all the flag models with Lego will have Powered Up motors and hubs. So going Power Functions can be quite obsolete way.
And you can buy Liebherr for all the motors you need.

What do you think ?

Since you have already 42095, then go for 42030 (power functions are going to be rare... and for powered up you have time ...)

If you plan to make a MOC, otherwise go for Liebherr

[maver1ck]

1 minute ago, I_Igor said:

If you plan to make a MOC, otherwise go for Liebherr

There are also quite interesting MOC for Liebherr. Starting with this two:
- https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-48738/Plaatart/42100-model-b-r2-d2/
- https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-43636/Flybum60/2020-volvo-excavator-moc/

With all the sets mentioned above (plus 42030) I will have:
- 4 L motors
- 1 M, 1 XL and 1 Servo Motor.
- 3 x IR transmitter / receiver
- 3 battery boxes
Quite a good start for building motorizing vehicles.
But this is similar to one Liebherr (7 motors, 2 hubs).

[1gor]

1 hour ago, maver1ck said:

There are also quite interesting MOC for Liebherr. Starting with this two:
- https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-48738/Plaatart/42100-model-b-r2-d2/
- https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-43636/Flybum60/2020-volvo-excavator-moc/

With all the sets mentioned above (plus 42030) I will have:
- 4 L motors
- 1 M, 1 XL and 1 Servo Motor.
- 3 x IR transmitter / receiver
- 3 battery boxes
Quite a good start for building motorizing vehicles.
But this is similar to one Liebherr (7 motors, 2 hubs).

From my experience XL motor needs direct drive to axle at you want setting like continuous power ...

There are also 2 great B models from Liebherr made by @eric trax

[maver1ck]

Third option.
Collect more money and go directly with 42100 :)
With this selection of PU motors I can just sell all the PF motors. (they are getting more and more expensive)

The only thing that keeps me from PU is BT and need for mobile phone. :(

 

 

[howitzer]

On 6/2/2020 at 1:09 AM, 2GodBDGlory said:

I would go with Power Functions for sure.

The Powered Up stuff will likely (eventually) allow for programmability, which is quite nice, but the motors are significantly larger, and there are no switches yet. Additionally, the hub part is quite a bit larger than the PF rechargeable/AAA battery boxes, and has no provision for recharging. There are also limitations in how many motors can be powered off of one hub (I regularly run over ten motors from my PF rechargeable battery, but one would need at least three PU hubs to accomplish that), and there is not currently any way to run multiple motors from one channel.

Finally, there is the price. I don't know what prices are like where you are, but a PU hub costs well over twice as much as a PF AA battery and two receivers, and the L and XL motors are 2-3 times the price of their PF equivalents. There are similar trends with the other components.

Perhaps the Powered Up system will improve, but currently I think the Power Functions system offers much greater flexibility at a much lower price.

There's also PU AAA battery box, though it only has two ports. Still perfectly usable for small applications. The PF rechargeable battery box (84599) was discontinued in 2013 and costs 100€ or more in Bricklink, even used.

If you just want a motor which runs and don't care about position encoding or speed control, PF is indeed better and the same goes if you have to run huge number of motors simultaneously with low torque. Other than that, PF doesn't really offer you any advantages.

On 6/2/2020 at 6:09 AM, Bartybum said:

PU is the way to go if you're interested in position encoding and all that more customizable basic programming stuff. Unfortunately, despite the interesting functionality of PU, in its current state it's quite inflexible/expensive for larger MOCs. You can't use more than four motors per smart hub, and there's no power distribution pieces that let you connect multiple channels to one socket. For the moment, this means that you lose space to multiple giant smart hubs. I'm sure you've seen the wonderful YouTube videos of MOCs that use 8+ motors to drive independent functions. Those are not going to be possible with PU, unless either they introduce a smart power distribution piece, or people cave in and buy another extortionately expensive smart hub. Personally, I think the second option is far likelier.

If you're mainly just interested in having basic motors drive functions, and don't care about advanced electronics, then buy a whole bunch of PF while it's still relatively cheap.

Like 2GodBDGlory said, the flexibility of PU leaves a lot to be desired at the moment.

I'd say the main downside of PU right now is the need for programming for MOC operation, as that sets the bar higher than PF even with the simplistic block language. Of course it also means that every PU MOC is RC while PF would require additional components in order to turn them into RC. The number of motors is also somewhat limiting, but that's probably a problem mostly for hardcore AFOLs, who like to make huge and complex machines with absurd number of motors. Vast majority of the people will never need more than the 4 ports offered by the C+ hub - and you can increase this to 6 with the RI hub with the added bonus of a rechargeable battery (though that's going to be a bit more costly.) There's also a wider selection of different kinds of motors, which allow for more options in design than PF.

I have to wonder why people keep repeating that PU components are somehow very expensive, when they are available cheaply in Bricklink? A C+ hub costs less than 20€, so that's hardly a huge investment and motors cost around 12-13€ each which is maybe 1€ more than PF equivalents. Yeah, they are hugely overpriced in the TLG's online store but only a fool would buy them there rather than Bricklink.

[dr_spock]

You can run the PU and Control+ apps on a cheap Android tablet.  No need to for a phone. 

Depending on where you are and where you're buying from, shipping can get expensive on Bricklink. Have to factor that into your costs.

PF have extension cables, PU does not have official LEGO ones at the moment.  That could limit how far you can place your motors and PU hubs.

[howitzer]

8 hours ago, dr_spock said:

You can run the PU and Control+ apps on a cheap Android tablet.  No need to for a phone. 

Depending on where you are and where you're buying from, shipping can get expensive on Bricklink. Have to factor that into your costs.

PF have extension cables, PU does not have official LEGO ones at the moment.  That could limit how far you can place your motors and PU hubs.

Yeah, those are valid points too, though the cables of PU motors are a bit longer than those of PF motors so you can create pretty large models even without extension cables. Hopefully we'll see them released for PU at some point.