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Lego 10277 - Crocodile Locomotive

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I think the EN was close to the worst of both worlds.  People who wanted only the engine or only the car wouldn't buy the set.  It was certainly a lousy way to get cars, which is why I only bought one (but I bought one, despite not being fond of steamers :grin:).  At the same time, the writing was on the wall, TLG couldn't really justify splitting it into two kits.  Only the train nuts would buy significant numbers, and there simply aren't enough of us.

All that aside, I'm excited (maybe delirious. ...) to see the Croc (which reminds me strongly of Holger's).  I've got two of the earliest baby Crocs (one red, one green), as well as buying the multi-kit.  I put together the Croc from it, including a 9v motor, but wasn't really satisfied:  it was asymmetrical, unlike the real one, and wasn't proportioned very well.  So I took that one apart long ago.  This new one, however, looks like an outstanding deal--look at all those big wheels!  Once we get them in brown, we can see if it's possible to recolor it in either green or dark green (I'd take either one).  I'm so excited I'm planning to buy at least two, maybe more.  I won't keep them to sell, either.

I'm also hoping very much that they'll be adaptable to 9v motors.  I've got a few I could drop in. ...  Fingers crossed.

Metta,

Ivan

PS: @Murdoch17 the Swiss designation was class Ce 6/8 and Be 6/8.  Austrian classes ÖBB 1089 and ÖBB 1189.  Germany didn't really have any, but a smaller loco that was somewhat similar was class E93/E94 (later 193/194).  There's quite a bit of info on the wiki page:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_(locomotive)

 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Murdoch17 said:

What is even the designation (class name besides crocodile) of this loco's real world counterpart?

Since this has those bars at both the doors I think it's based on SBB Ce 6/8 II.

SBB Ce 6/8 III looks very similar, but has no double bars at the doors, and also has extra round-top shaped bars near the buffers.

Edited by TeriXeri

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1 minute ago, TeriXeri said:

Since this has those iron bars at the doors it looks like a SBB Ce 6/8 II and not the SBB Ce 6/8 III

 

 

2 minutes ago, ivanlan9 said:

I think the EN was close to the worst of both worlds.  People who wanted only the engine or only the car wouldn't buy the set.  It was certainly a lousy way to get cars, which is why I only bought one (but I bought one, despite not being fond of steamers :grin:).  At the same time, the writing was on the wall, TLG couldn't really justify splitting it into two kits.  Only the train nuts would buy significant numbers, and there simply aren't enough of us.

All that aside, I'm excited (maybe delirious. ...) to see the Croc (which reminds me strongly of Holger's).  I've got two of the earliest baby Crocs (one red, one green), as well as buying the multi-kit.  I put together the Croc from it, including a 9v motor, but wasn't really satisfied:  it was asymmetrical, unlike the real one, and wasn't proportioned very well.  So I took that one apart long ago.  This new one, however, looks like an outstanding deal--look at all those big wheels!  Once we get them in brown, we can see if it's possible to recolor it in either green or dark green (I'd take either one).  I'm so excited I'm planning to buy at least two, maybe more.  I won't keep them to sell, either.

I'm also hoping very much that they'll be adaptable to 9v motors.  I've got a few I could drop in. ...  Fingers crossed.

Metta,

Ivan

PS: @Murdoch17 the Swiss designation was class Ce 6/8 and Be 6/8.  Austrian classes ÖBB 1089 and ÖBB 1189.  Germany didn't really have any, but a smaller loco that was somewhat similar was class E93/E94 (later 193/194).  There's quite a bit of info on the wiki page:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_(locomotive)

 

Thanks, I'll research it a bit more from there... still not sure how too approach the passenger cars.

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Remember the AFOL Designer Program sets that BrickLink did last year?  With Lego's recent acquisition of BrickLink, that sort of partnership would be a great way to produce low sales volume sets like rolling stock for this loco.

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1 hour ago, Murdoch17 said:

I'm trying to MOC out some two wheel passenger / freight cars for this engine... and I have no idea where to start as I'm not to familiar with continental European trains. (UK is a different story) What is even the designation (class name besides crocodile) of this loco's real world counterpart?

I look at railpictures.net for real world.    https://www.railpictures.net/

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1 hour ago, TrainDragon said:

Remember the AFOL Designer Program sets that BrickLink did last year?  With Lego's recent acquisition of BrickLink, that sort of partnership would be a great way to produce low sales volume sets like rolling stock for this loco.

Ha, you "stole my thunder".... which was:

It’s a Locomotive only.

I’ve read the comments for and against extra carriages and / or wagons. What worked in the past and what didn’t.

But one thing has changed since the last “Expert” train. LEGO now owns Bricklink, and hence (I presume) studio.

It wouldn’t be difficult to sell the locomotive, and make Studio models of a couple of extra bits of rolling stock available as models. The last page of the instructions can lead people to do this, if they choose. Models can be built as presented, or used as a stepping off point for your own variations. People would be introduced to Bricklink, Studio, and through one way or another, probably purchase more LEGO.

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I can’t believe this passed me by until now. I’m in love.

Instant day 1 purchase for two to run together, with a further two to keep sealed for later. This locomotive is going to go down in LEGO history.

I’m definitely curious about the Powered Up-ability. No doubt it’ll come with instructions to fit it, but the suggestions that we might be getting a new train motor has me intrigued.

Historically LEGO hasn’t really cared about the AFOL train market, but they might be seeing this as an opportunity to release a new motor that will set up the AFOL community for years to come. A more expensive but more niche/adult train motor.

Either way, color me excited! :D

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5 hours ago, cptkent said:

It wouldn’t be difficult to sell the locomotive, and make Studio models of a couple of extra bits of rolling stock available as models. The last page of the instructions can lead people to do this, if they choose. Models can be built as presented, or used as a stepping off point for your own variations. People would be introduced to Bricklink, Studio, and through one way or another, probably purchase more LEGO.

 

14 hours ago, Duq said:

Why don't they include instructions for a car, or provide those instructions online? Two reasons:

1. Those instructions would cost time (=money) to develop at zero return on investment.

2. They would get numerous calls and email from people complaining that the pieces for the car aren't in the box. Seriously. Remember when there were pictures of alternative builds on boxes and in instructions? They stopped doing them because they received too many calls from parents that little Johnny could build model X on the back of the box because the instructions were missing. Unfortunately that's the world we live in.

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5 hours ago, cptkent said:

It wouldn’t be difficult to sell the locomotive, and make Studio models of a couple of extra bits of rolling stock available as models. The last page of the instructions can lead people to do this, if they choose. Models can be built as presented, or used as a stepping off point for your own variations. People would be introduced to Bricklink, Studio, and through one way or another, probably purchase more LEGO.

The issues I see with "free instruction and get bricks yourself" are:

1. There might be one or another part, that is already harder to get. And with new demand prices will be over the top. We already had such cases with MOCs.

2. You probably won't be able to get all the parts in single shop, thus additional shipping would be involved.

In the end this could result in price of cars/wagons similar to the train engine itself.

 

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15 hours ago, Duq said:

. Remember when there were pictures of alternative builds on boxes and in instructions? They stopped doing them because they received too many calls from parents that little Johnny could build model X on the back of the box because the instructions were missing.

I always wondered why they stopped this.  After a long Dark Age, coming back and finding a lack of ‘inspirational second and third builds’ on the back of the box puzzled me.  As a kid i used to love these, and sometimes purchased a set based more on these than the original build.

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41 minutes ago, CaptainSerMig said:

Do we know of any relase date?

The Promobricks article said July 1st as a Lego exclusive.

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17 hours ago, Bartybum said:

Dude just come up with something yourself

This comment is so out of place and disrespectful.

There are multiple reasons people may not be able to just come up with something themselves. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to have "official" option on the table.

Let's respect each other points of view. I am MOCer myself but doesn't mean everyone has to be one as well.

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30 minutes ago, Mestari said:

This comment is so out of place and disrespectful.

There are multiple reasons people may not be able to just come up with something themselves. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to have "official" option on the table.

Let's respect each other points of view. I am MOCer myself but doesn't mean everyone has to be one as well.

Agreed - it’s limiting, but if you don’t have time or money or whatever - then you can’t - it’s as simple as that.  Not everyone is in the perfect position of not working and having made millions.

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If you don't have money, then why would you this set to be far more expensive by adding a coach? Unless you want them to cut corners, but then many people would keep their money.

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Personally, I would've opted for either a dark red, dark green, or even dark brown color scheme. Do the wheels look black or dark grey to anyone? Can we get some gunmetal grey wheels though!?!

I'm hoping that this set will have at least 1-3 rebuilds, as this is key to evoking higher sales imho. It would be crazy to see a Mallet or Garret-type engine as an official B-model! Also, after reading into the divide about yes extra cars vs. no extra cars, TLG mightv'e factored rolling stock in as alternative builds ((theres like 1300 pcs, c'mon TLG)). Even if the B-models aren't the best, it'd still be some sort of incentive to buy multiples.

What I most want to see is the rumored 'new' motor that'll be powering this. I agree with those that think it'll be the PuP L-motor, but I also hope it'll be something new new!!

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My prediction for the new Powered Up Train motor is one that is specifically made for the large train wheels. Every single steam train LEGO has made in the modern era has relied on using a tender for the  train motor, along with putting the battery box right on top.

This new motor might be similarly shaped to the standard train motor, but with anti-studs on the underside, more technic holes, and other connections. It also might not have the bogie plate with technic pin built on top. I also think the spacing of the motor axles might be slightly different. I'm excited, as using a small power functions motor on the emerald night was so noisy... Steam trains need are more elegant solution.

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B-models? On Creator Expert? Don't get your hopes up...

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7 minutes ago, Duq said:

B-models? On Creator Expert? Don't get your hopes up...

Agreed.  Has there ever been a Creator Expert set with a B model?

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9 minutes ago, NickLafreniere said:

My prediction for the new Powered Up Train motor is one that is specifically made for the large train wheels. Every single steam train LEGO has made in the modern era has relied on using a tender for the  train motor, along with putting the battery box right on top.

This new motor might be similarly shaped to the standard train motor, but with anti-studs on the underside, more technic holes, and other connections. It also might not have the bogie plate with technic pin built on top. I also think the spacing of the motor axles might be slightly different. I'm excited, as using a small power functions motor on the emerald night was so noisy... Steam trains need are more elegant solution.

Why should they make a special train motor if a Technic motor does the job equally well?

Just now, Vilhelm22 said:

Agreed.  Has there ever been a Creator Expert set with a B model?

A B-model would not make AFOLs happy. I see no need for it.

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8 minutes ago, legotownlinz said:

Why should they make a special train motor if a Technic motor does the job equally well?

For the crocodile, I think it's to save space on the inside of the cab and to reduce the sound it makes(as a bonus, not in any way a requirement). 

My theory? The inside of the cab may already have the entire battery box inside, so there is no more room to put a small technic motor + gears. Perhaps that was the simpler way to get it done? 

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1 hour ago, legotownlinz said:

Why should they make a special train motor if a Technic motor does the job equally well?

A B-model would not make AFOLs happy. I see no need for it.

I wasn’t saying that I wanted one - I was agreeing with Duq about a previous comment that said they expected a B-model.  Duq, in response, basically said it ain’t gonna happen, and I agreed with that.

 

51 minutes ago, NickLafreniere said:

For the crocodile, I think it's to save space on the inside of the cab and to reduce the sound it makes(as a bonus, not in any way a requirement). 

My theory? The inside of the cab may already have the entire battery box inside, so there is no more room to put a small technic motor + gears. Perhaps that was the simpler way to get it done? 

The way I imagine it, there’s a motor in each nose, which work in sync using the app.

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It is EXTREMELY unlikely LEGO will produce a new Train motor. They already produce a Train motor for PUp, and making a new version of an already specialized piece is not likely. I'm putting my money on one of the missing PUp sizes (L or XL). That would be the best use of their money as it would appeal to non-Train enthusiasts as well.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Phil B said:

It is EXTREMELY unlikely LEGO will produce a new Train motor. They already produce a Train motor for PUp, and making a new version of an already specialized piece is not likely. I'm putting my money on one of the missing PUp sizes (L or XL). That would be the best use of their money as it would appeal to non-Train enthusiasts as well.

My best guess is L size, because  the noses are 5 wide and PF L motors are 3 wide, so one in each end would be completely enclosed.  Apparently the new motor is 88013.  88012 and 88014 have also been said to come this year (see Brickset), so I expect an extension cable, L and XL motors.

Edited by Vilhelm22

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Well looking at that glorious shape, at least what we've see so far, its most likely only one set of wheels will actually be driven, which frees up space elsewhere in the model. Or perhaps we see an alternative version of a power hub like element but with one motor and fewer sensors. Where the motor and the juice are in one element with less cables everywhere, it seems like something that could be put to use elsewhere too. I just hope lights can be added without the butchering one had to go through to get the poor Maersk train to see where it was heading.

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