Lego 10277 - Crocodile Locomotive

[Wimmer]

9 hours ago, dr_spock said:

It probably used to be no questions asked.  Maybe they found too many people were abusing the system.  A few years ago, they replaced my Mindstorm NXT with questions like my name and address.  All I had to do was ship back the broken one to them.

Hopefully, they'll be good with replacement parts for the Crocodile since it is reddish-brown.  I seem to encounter more breakage with reddish-brown than other colors. 

 

 

Agreed. All my canon carrier brackets from my (pirate) ships have cracked assembling them a couple of years later. The same happened with brown bricks in one of the Winter Village sets. 
When I inquired about the WV set they knew that the brown bricks from that era had drying/cracking problems. 
 

Now I just have to contact them about all the canon carrier brackets I have. And I have a lot because I bought extra to fill all the canon positions in all those ships. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Wimmer

[Wimmer]

On 5/25/2020 at 9:25 AM, Phil B said:

No matter how many copies you need or want of this set, with the current supply chain issues (at least in North America), this will be hard limit 1 on LEGO.com, and it will go to Back Order on the first day it is available, and to Temporarily Out of Stock for the next 2 months on day 3. Just look at Pirate Bay and Haunted House .....

... And the Lamborghini as well...  All sets that were on my list; and now I can add this Crocodile to it... 

[Thai bricks]

I was so keen to buy this. My first Lego set I ever bought myself. But Lego in their infinite wisdom made this an exclusive set and so won't sell it to me, because I live in Thailand, where there is no Lego representation. I checked the US and UK sites and they explicitly state that they do not ship to freight forwarders. How sad.

Maybe I'll buy the Bluebrixx loco shed instead. More than twice the number of parts for the same money. They post everywhere and the VAT I don't have to pay kind of pays for the shipping. I don't really need another loco anyway...

[Wimmer]

3 hours ago, Thai bricks said:

I was so keen to buy this. My first Lego set I ever bought myself. But Lego in their infinite wisdom made this an exclusive set and so won't sell it to me, because I live in Thailand, where there is no Lego representation. I checked the US and UK sites and they explicitly state that they do not ship to freight forwarders. How sad.

Maybe I'll buy the Bluebrixx loco shed instead. More than twice the number of parts for the same money. They post everywhere and the VAT I don't have to pay kind of pays for the shipping. I don't really need another loco anyway...

Try Bricklink two days after release ?... 

[Thai bricks]

I'll do that, but I won't hold my breath: they will mark it up and then it's a big box to ship. Buying from Asian BL stores is better for me, but I don't think the 'certified' Lego store in Singapore will carry it. We shall see.

Thanks for the hint.

[zephyr1934]

23 hours ago, Coolusername said:

Hope someone will make a mod with the center disc wheel thingy connected to the rods and spinning.

I like your technical terminology because that is exactly what I was thinking to call it.

I believe the "most accurate" solution would be to tie in the remaining driver under the cab, but that won't work with the current design. I bet within a few weeks folks will come up with a major rebuild that moves the motor to one of the hoods and completely redoes the frame so that there are only two sets of driving wheels.

Anyway, getting back to the wheel thingy, I believe the technic disk should be centered vertically with the driver wheels, but from the pictures it looks like in this model it is too high, by either a full brick 2/3's of a brick. I suspect the disk is too large compared to the real feature and if it is moved down to the correct location and it will look more like a wheel.

Anticipating this model, I have a new rod design in my current fab. It is essentially a 3 hole 9 long rod but the middle hole is fabricated to have a fake technic pin head to make it look like it is also connected to the disk even though it isn't. So it is actually a 2 hole rod. I could not tell for sure if the technic disk was laterally centered between the wheels or offset by 1/2 to 1 stud. If the latter, my prototypes will need to be modified. In any event, within a few weeks of release I should have rods for the simple fix. I'll probably have them in both gray and black.

[Thai bricks]

The thingy is called a jackshaft (German: Blindwelle). It is located higher than the wheels, so the connecting rod on this loco is triangular in shape.

[1974]

Review is up on Brickset

(Note to self : Don't get into trains again )

[Dirk1313]

I added a few more modifications, have a look.

 

[1974]

Yes, it looks a metric ton better, but isn't there allready a thread for modding that set?

Also, if this mod works on all current LEGO tracks, and can run for hours to boot without bits falling off, I really do question the TLG designer (sorry, Pierre!)

It really looks daft on the official pictures from that straight on angle

On 6/17/2020 at 4:20 PM, ClassicTrains said:

I have found the post (it's from 2014), and this can not necessarily be considered a rumour indeed... 

 

Probably I was used to the fact that 1974 usually had quite reliable sources. But anyway, he has predicted it more or less, in 2014.

Lol! I'm not some kinda oracle. Back then I had a tight connection to TLG and people on the outskirts, So I saw the trains and station way before release and relayed it here to the good folks. My wish for a brown croc merely stems from the old 12V proto ... I still think it's a better croc and I REALLY wish that the new train could include those 3W doors. I'm not a fan of TLG leaving out doors on trains, it adds a major play value. The new train is nice to look at, but to play with? It's crap!

Cheers,

Ole

Edited June 21, 2020 by 1974

[Polarlicht]

2 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

I like your technical terminology because that is exactly what I was thinking to call it.

I believe the "most accurate" solution would be to tie in the remaining driver under the cab, but that won't work with the current design. I bet within a few weeks folks will come up with a major rebuild that moves the motor to one of the hoods and completely redoes the frame so that there are only two sets of driving wheels.

Anyway, getting back to the wheel thingy, I believe the technic disk should be centered vertically with the driver wheels, but from the pictures it looks like in this model it is too high, by either a full brick 2/3's of a brick. I suspect the disk is too large compared to the real feature and if it is moved down to the correct location and it will look more like a wheel.

Anticipating this model, I have a new rod design in my current fab. It is essentially a 3 hole 9 long rod but the middle hole is fabricated to have a fake technic pin head to make it look like it is also connected to the disk even though it isn't. So it is actually a 2 hole rod. I could not tell for sure if the technic disk was laterally centered between the wheels or offset by 1/2 to 1 stud. If the latter, my prototypes will need to be modified. In any event, within a few weeks of release I should have rods for the simple fix. I'll probably have them in both gray and black.

Speaking of which, i was thinking having the pivot points for the noses not between the wheels, but rather at the axle which gets driven, so the center axles.

And yeah the disk thingy needs to be at the same level or one stud over the rods

[Myowntrain]

Will the price of the 10183 red crocodile locomitive dramatically drop after the release of the new model 10277? I am thinking about selling it now...

[Vilhelm22]

15 minutes ago, Myowntrain said:

Will the price of the 10183 red crocodile locomitive dramatically drop after the release of the new model 10277? I am thinking about selling it now...

Probably not, because it makes far more than one model, and the crocodile in it isn’t exactly accurate.  They’re two very different sets.

[Polarlicht]

I don't get why the price for 10183 is that high? Apart from train specific stuff it's just basic parts and you could bricklink it together way cheaper...

[zephyr1934]

21 hours ago, 1974 said:

Also, if this mod works on all current LEGO tracks, and can run for hours to boot without bits falling off, I really do question the TLG designer (sorry, Pierre!)

Or that reflects the internal price limitations or possibly the 1x4x1 panels were not available in brown at the time the design was finalized

22 hours ago, Thai bricks said:

The thingy is called a jackshaft (German: Blindwelle). It is located higher than the wheels, so the connecting rod on this loco is triangular in shape.

Thanks! It looks like the model not only has the inner-most drivers cut off, but also missing space for the counterweight on the connecting rod for the jackshaft... ugh!

 

[Phil B]

28 minutes ago, zephyr1934 said:

Or that reflects the internal price limitations or possibly the 1x4x1 panels were not available in brown at the time the design was finalized

Thanks! It looks like the model not only has the inner-most drivers cut off, but also missing space for the counterweight on the connecting rod for the jackshaft... ugh!

 

Somebody on the other 10277 topic said that the picture with the triangular connecting rod is from a different version Crocodile. Here is a Crocodile without the triangular connecting rod and the counterweight:

 

According to what I was able to find out, the above is a Ce 6/8 III, and this is what LEGO has modeled, but their plaque says they modeled a Ce 6/8 II, which has the triangular connecting rod and counterweight. Typical LEGO fail :)

Edited June 22, 2020 by Phil B

[TeriXeri]

17 minutes ago, Phil B said:

According to what I was able to find out, the above is a Ce 6/8 III, and this is what LEGO has modeled, but their plaque says they modeled a Ce 6/8 II, which has the triangular connecting rod and counterweight. Typical LEGO fail :)

LEGO's train is a Ce 6/8 II , not III, the main difference not just the color, but also the bars both of the doors instead of 1 door.

Also the bars near the buffers of the locomotives on the III are upside down U shaped, and another set of straight ones, while the II just has a single set of straight bars on front.

14253 is also the famous still running brown Ce 6/8 II , if it were based on the III they'd sure would have made it darkgreen and yellow instead.

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by TeriXeri

[Phil B]

6 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

LEGO's train is a Ce 6/8 II , not III, the main difference not just the color, but also the bars both of the doors instead of 1 door and the ends of the locomotives on the III are rounded, and straight on the II.

 

 

Here is a Ce 6/8 II (left) and a Ce 6/8 III (right).

If LEGO built a Ce 6/8 II, they missed the counterweight, the triangular rod, the color over the motor, the ladders at the nose, the box at the nose and the grill at the nose (front and side), plus they have ladders where there are none.

If LEGO thought they built a Ce 6/8 II, but used a picture of a Ce 6/8 III, they missed the front step plank and most of the handlebars (yellow on the train above), and technically also the second connecting rod, but the differences are much more subtle.

Net, they built a Ce 6/8 III with a few omissions for scale, but called it a Ce 6/8 II :)

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by Phil B

[Wimmer]

1 hour ago, Phil B said:

Switzerland ?? is so pretty; every time I see these locomotives in their native background I would like to go home and hang out for a while...

Edited June 22, 2020 by Wimmer

[Thai bricks]

If you look carefully you can see a few differences between the two green ones pictured above. Let's not forget that at least some of them have been modified during their life times. After being replaced on the Gotthard line some were modified into shunters and the lower green one is probably one of them.

But I'm with Phil B here.

[ChrisO]

10 hours ago, Thai bricks said:

If you look carefully you can see a few differences between the two green ones pictured above. Let's not forget that at least some of them have been modified during their life times. After being replaced on the Gotthard line some were modified into shunters and the lower green one is probably one of them.

But I'm with Phil B here.

The shunter version has only 1 pantograph and a big metal 'plate' at the front:

Lego's version of the Ce 6/8 Crocodile is just a Frankenstein mix-up version of the II and III. The nose sections are from the III. Compared with the II the III has no jackshaft, no grills at the front. It does have ladders at the front unlike the II and the engine 'covers are different).

The middle section is more likely the II. The Lego version has 2 doors with handles on the side, the III has only 1 door with handles on 1 side.

Besides the differences between the II and the III, The sides of the cabin (both II and III) are not symmetrical (doors and center window) and the Lego version is?

[JaBaCaDaBra]

20 hours ago, Wimmer said:

I see these locomotives in their native background

I've seen them riding.... in the sixties.
I loved them as a little kid, my father had one on his HO track too and it always had a magic feeling of ancient technology.

Edited June 23, 2020 by JaBaCaDaBra

[JaBaCaDaBra]

On 6/21/2020 at 1:17 AM, Wimmer said:

Copies ?  I’m thinking of two or three myself. All the other trains are now hugely profitable if you have any more copies. 

Pfiew you can say that again.
Just sold three Maersk trains misb for a little fortune.

[zephyr1934]

1 hour ago, ChrisO said:

Lego's version of the Ce 6/8 Crocodile is just a Frankenstein mix-up version of the II and III.

Wow, yeah, kinda looks that way. And it doesn't help that they split off one of the driver wheels. There's no way to do it right for either version. For the rods I'll probably wind up with a "simple" version that just uses a 3 hole 9 long with a fake pin in the middle (a cosmetic improvement over Lego's rendition) and a "complicated" version with an actual connecting rod from the jack shaft that will have to wait until after I have the set in hand to be designed.

[(1)Stein]

Although i'm really happy that TLG has graced us with another great Locomotive, i'm a little sad that its not really a train....

The potential would have been there to make some european freight cars to match. But this is where Lego always falls short!?

When I was growing up my favourite train was 7740 where it was also possible to buy several additional railcars to fit the set.

As an adult I had High hopes when they released the Santa Fe Super Chief where if you bought two carriages you could have five add on cars!

I will definitely purchase the Crok, but its not my favourite and hopefully we don't have to wait for another 7 years to get the next exclusive TRAIN!!!

Edited June 24, 2020 by (1)Stein