mapimi

Lego 10277 - Crocodile Locomotive

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13 hours ago, R0Sch said:

Ok, so I modeled as much as I can from the leaked image. What I cannot know is how the interior looks like but I guess the 3 studs wide Motor (shown here a WeDo 2.0 Motor for reference) can be placed inside the front and/or back and the BT-hub will have enough place inside the middle section since it's exactly 6 studs wide.

Nice work so far, but I'm not convinced the middle section is exactly 6 studs wide. Looking at this I can't ignore what seems to be a 1/2 offset right in front of the door:

 Geen beschrijving beschikbaar.

Also the windows on the side don't convince me. Just wondering, could there be just tiles put on the sides? That would explain the deep laying windows ánd the offset.

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1 hour ago, Rijkvv said:

Nice work so far, but I'm not convinced the middle section is exactly 6 studs wide. Looking at this I can't ignore what seems to be a 1/2 offset right in front of the door:

 Geen beschrijving beschikbaar.

Also the windows on the side don't convince me. Just wondering, could there be just tiles put on the sides? That would explain the deep laying windows ánd the offset.

You're right - the middle part is definitely 7 wide.

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4 hours ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

The real thing has powered middle drivers, though.

That's actually exactly why I wanted to ask. I had a cheeky look on Wikipedia and it said that they have articulated bodies. The current articulation solution is a bit iffy imo.

I reckon it would have been way cooler to have the inner drivers linked to the others (with the second axles obviously unflanged), so that power could be routed through the articulated join in each bogie to deliver it to all the drivers equally, or even to the main driver crank.

30 minutes ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

You're right - the middle part is definitely 7 wide.

And to add to that, you can clearly see that the front sections are also 7 studs wide. The tiling on the top indicates that each snout is 5 studs across. This is a really welcome surprise

Edited by Bartybum

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Be 6/8 Crocodile (full view)

 Be 6/8 Crocodile (motor)

 

Be 6/8 Crocodile (details)

My 2009 MOC Crocodile has articulated bodies and a M-motor in each "nose". For the wheels I use drivers with and without flanges.

See Flickr-Video https://www.flickr.com/photos/holgermatthes/3903589445/ in album https://www.flickr.com/photos/holgermatthes/albums/72157622196010661

The first/last wheel also articulates. Let's see how all this is done in the Crocodile LEGO set?

 

Edited by HoMa

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9 hours ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

That MOC is about a thousand times better.

I prefer the look  of Lego's model over both Ideas submission and the one from Holger's Lego trains book. And I think 7-wide is a good compromise for details vs. usability.

Admittedly, Lego has the advantage that they can produce the window part in the right color.

Edited by legotownlinz

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1 hour ago, legotownlinz said:

I prefer the look  of Lego's model over both Ideas submission and the one from Holger's Lego trains book. And I think 7-wide is a good compromise for details vs. usability.

Admittedly, Lego has the advantage that they can produce the window part in the right color.

Agreed.  Though to be fair, Holger could have done a better job today, ten years on, with a much wider  range of pieces available.  I’ve seen his more recent creations like the TEE which are amazing.  Lego has improved a lot just in the past 10-15 years, and AFOL MOCs really show this.

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Thanks for your suggestions that the middle part is also 7 wide. Wasn't easy to modify it.

10277_reveng_9.png

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18 hours ago, R0Sch said:

Ok, so I modeled as much as I can from the leaked image.

Great work on the reverse engineering. I would agree with others though that the body is 7 wide and it looks like the top is 6 wide with the top of the brown being door rails at 6 wide for the transition to 7 wide below.

 

18 hours ago, R0Sch said:

I really wonder how this train will be able to take the tight R40 curves with the front/back wheel pairs at 9 stud distance. All trains so far had a consistent 7stud distance between powered axles. I guess with the bigger wheels it's possible.

The Emerald Night had the same wheels at 9 stud spacing.

 

For the thoughts on the IDEAS designs, remember that Lego has up to a 3 year lead time from idea to release on some sets. So the JP, Fiat, and even the Croc might have already been in the plans for AFOL sets before other designs showed up in the IDEAS pipeline. They are all obvious subjects. If they were already in the design stage, what's Lego supposed to say, "lovely design and all, but sorry, we've already been working on that and you should see it in a year." I doubt we'll ever know if Lego stole the idea from the MOCers, I just can't see there being a good reason for them to do so (bad PR and relatively small cost had they been accepted). And there's a very good reason for them NOT to acknowledge a good idea that duplicated one they were already working on- I bet there were dozens of other IDEAS projects on the same subjects that were nowhere near as nice and so never got any attention. So do you give all of those folks a consolation prize? It is certainly possible that Lego stole ideas from IDEAS (just ask Kiddicraft), but if the sets were already in the pipeline it just seems like a situation where the only real response from Lego should be silence.

 

7 hours ago, JopieK said:

Apart from that, if the train would come, it will result in a lot of nice parts that we can then use to MOD it to our own liking, so I'm totally fine with a less than perfect solution with nice new parts. See it as a 'starter kit'. 

Exactly this! If the train set attracts an AFOL into trains, that is a win for everyone interested in Lego Trains. We haven't had a gateway set since the Horizon Express.

 

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4 hours ago, HoMa said:

My 2009 MOC Crocodile has articulated bodies and a M-motor in each "nose". For the wheels I use drivers with and without flanges.

The first/last wheel also articulates. Let's see how all this is done in the Crocodile LEGO set?

Ahh, yours is exactly how I wanted to see Lego do theirs, with the drivers all grouped in two bogies :wub:

Edited by Bartybum

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3 hours ago, R0Sch said:

Thanks for your suggestions that the middle part is also 7 wide. Wasn't easy to modify it.

10277_reveng_9.png

Nice!  One pretty minor thing - the smaller leading/trailing wheels are the spoked, cross axel kind - not the ones used on wagons.

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Thanks for the info! :classic:

That engine looks very nice! :thumbup:

I only hope that some waggons will be somewhen available seperately, too. Since only the engine itself is a bit boring and therefore more something for someone who only wants to display the set on a shelf but not to integrate it in a trains / city layout.

Plus even more I hope that we'll get the rumored elevated train nevertheless - since I personally would have much more need for it than for the crocodile.

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I'm absolutely delighted TLG are going to release this product! If anything, more for the intent on their part than for the design of the train itself.

When they started to use the new 'mature' branding for advanced builds (apparently, replacing Creator Expert), I totally got why they made that decision. They wanted the products to tell their own individual stories.

One of the issues I always had with Creator Expert is that it alienated new customers to the LEGO brand; since the Expert line is an extension of Creator, and therefore the customer would need to know what Creator actually represents in the first place. Plus, the logo took up a big part of box that could have otherwise been used for the title/branding of the model itself. It didn't communicate the product story.

With this new branding however, I think TLG have a great opportunity to realise one of their problematic visions - products that can be purchased by adults as either a showpiece or a functional model/toy. 

This new crocodile train is the absolute perfect example. The product is showcasing an iconic design, and does so with touches that normally would have been out-of-place in a Creator Expert product, with the brick-build plinth base, and the information sign. It's saying "I look awesome on a shelf, or you can put me on your layout!"

And if the price is as suggest under 100 Euros, I'll gobble it up!

I'm genuinely excited now to see what they come up with in the future, given their open to new ideas such as this. I would love to see George Stephenson's 'Rocket', or the 'Mallard'. And I don't think anyone would say No to a Flying Scotsman...

Edited by nesquik

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56 minutes ago, Klaus-Dieter said:

Thanks for the info! :classic:

That engine looks very nice! :thumbup:

I only hope that some waggons will be somewhen available seperately, too. Since only the engine itself is a bit boring and therefore more something for someone who only wants to display the set on a shelf but not to integrate it in a trains / city layout.

Plus even more I hope that we'll get the rumored elevated train nevertheless - since I personally would have much more need for it than for the crocodile.

Sorry, I’ve not heard of these rumours - who and where?
I’ve also heard that the new city square set coming out this year (60097 (orange tram) equivalent) comes with a yellow tram, so excited for that.  If rumours are true, it turns out that this is becoming a pretty good year for trains!

Edited by Vilhelm22

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1 hour ago, Klaus-Dieter said:

Plus even more I hope that we'll get the rumored elevated train nevertheless - since I personally would have much more need for it than for the crocodile.

That was my afterthought realisation, I hope it doesn't meant the skytrain rumour is dead in the water, because I would love to see that set as well, and am more likely to get a couple for my city rather than the crocodile

32 minutes ago, Vilhelm22 said:

Sorry, I’ve not heard of these rumours - who and where?
I’ve also heard that the new city square set coming out this year (60097 (orange tram) equivalent) comes with a yellow tram, so excited for that.  If rumours are true, it turns out that this is becoming a pretty good year for trains!

Oh I missed the tram rumours. That would be awesome. Good year for trains indeed :) 

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1 hour ago, Vilhelm22 said:

Sorry, I’ve not heard of these rumours - who and where?
I’ve also heard that the new city square set coming out this year (60097 (orange tram) equivalent) comes with a yellow tram, so excited for that.  If rumours are true, it turns out that this is becoming a pretty good year for trains!

I put the rumors in one new topic:

1 hour ago, mapimi said:

That was my afterthought realisation, I hope it doesn't meant the skytrain rumour is dead in the water, because I would love to see that set as well, and am more likely to get a couple for my city rather than the crocodile

Oh I missed the tram rumours. That would be awesome. Good year for trains indeed :) 

The rumor came here: https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/172074-lego-city-2020-rumors-speculation-and-discussion/&page=56

Honestly said, after the reveal of the Crocodile, my hopes for the rumored elevated train are nearly zero. Since if it was an 18+ set, I can't imagine that TLG would release two trains related sets the same year. But since there seems to be a tram in the big City set, it's imo absolutely unlikely that another City set the same year will include an elevated train. The only hope would be if the person who saw a picture of that big City set had only a quick look and therefore thought it's a tram although it's an elevated train.

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I want two.

Actually, I want four: two to run, one for display, and one to sell at exorbitant prices on the second-hand market in ten year's time.

(I kid, it won't be exorbitant, just scandalous.)

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12 hours ago, Phoxtane said:

I want two.

Actually, I want four: two to run, one for display, and one to sell at exorbitant prices on the second-hand market in ten year's time.

(I kid, it won't be exorbitant, just scandalous.)

This is indeed a set to buy twice or even three times. Two of them running in double traction on the layout and one for display.

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The crocodile's piece count and packaging is similar to the 21054 The White House, which is also coming soon. The White House retails for USD$99, and CAD$149...

If the crocodile is going to cost that much, I can see quite a few people being turned off by that steep price. The more I look at the picture of the set, the less excited I get. Although the train looks great, it doesn't look like it has many play features, which is totally understandable as this is an 18+ set for display. Aside from opening the cab roof, you can't really "do" much. I have to purchase an additional new motor, which is ok (I could use a new one), but that's still a bigger pill to swallow.

The display stand looks nice, but certainly adds to the price. I like the stand, but I don't require it to enjoy the set. It is made of quite a bit of plates, tiles, and rail pieces - about $20 worth of parts that the consumer is forced to buy. I think making the set cheaper and boiling it down to the most essential parts would have been more well received. Most people buying the set either have track to put it on, or could make their own stand made of plates and rails from Bricklink.

Edited by NickLafreniere

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4 minutes ago, NickLafreniere said:

The crocodile's piece count and packaging is similar to the 21054 The White House, which is also coming soon. The White House retails for USD$99, and CAD$149...

If the crocodile is going to cost that much, I can see quite a few people being turned off by that steep price. The more I look at the picture of the set, the less excited I get. Although the train looks great, it doesn't look it has many play features, which is totally understandable as this is an 18+ set for display. Aside from opening the cab roof, you can't really "do" much. I have to purchase an additional new motor, which is ok (I could use a new one), but that's still a bigger pill to swallow.

The display stand looks nice, but certainly adds to the price. I like the stand, but I don't require it to enjoy the set. It is made of quite a bit of plates, tiles, and rail pieces - about $20 worth of parts that the consumer is forced to buy. I think making the set cheaper and boiling it down to the most essential parts would have been more well received. Most people buying the set either have track to put it on, or could make their own stand made of plates and rails from Bricklink.

The stand has useful parts. I'll use the stands of the engines running on my layout to build a stands for some other trains. I don't think the stand is a big issue even for those customers who do not present the Crocodile on the stand.

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5 minutes ago, legotownlinz said:

The stand has useful parts. I'll use the stands of the engines running on my layout to build a stands for some other trains. I don't think the stand is a big issue even for those customers who do not present the Crocodile on the stand.

It's not a huge issue, I just think it could have been optimized a little better. I still think the set will sell, but it could have performed a little better if it was a tad bit cheaper. I hope the set would sell well so LEGO makes more :)

Although I don't think the stand is the best idea, I do like the simple plaque included. I think if just the plaque as well as a few pieces to brake the train (some bricks or a rubber piece underneath) so it doesn't roll off your shelf while in display would have been a great compromise. 

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22 hours ago, R0Sch said:

Thanks for your suggestions that the middle part is also 7 wide. Wasn't easy to modify it.

10277_reveng_9.png

In the leaked Lego image, there are plates below the rails. They are missing in your image.

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2 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

The stand has useful parts. I'll use the stands of the engines running on my layout to build a stands for some other trains. I don't think the stand is a big issue even for those customers who do not present the Crocodile on the stand.

An interesting variant on the stand would have been a modified PennLUG standard: replacing the light gray with dark gray while using RC track for the rails and filling in the rest with plates, then putting the brown tiles on top of that (or even better, dark brown tiles). That way folks who didn't want the stand would still get four segments of straight track.

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5 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

An interesting variant on the stand would have been a modified PennLUG standard: replacing the light gray with dark gray while using RC track for the rails and filling in the rest with plates, then putting the brown tiles on top of that (or even better, dark brown tiles). That way folks who didn't want the stand would still get four segments of straight track.

I agree, having the real straight track pieces instead of the rails that are included in the set would be better! Even if the display stand was simply just 4 pieces of straight tracks with a train buffer stop at the end, that would be useful and still look nice for display.

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