Lego 10277 - Crocodile Locomotive

[*thomas*]

1 hour ago, zux said:

Rolling stock? How much is enough? Couple of cars would look odd, like they do with all the City train sets. However, getting 20+ cars in a single set would cost a penny. Single train looks so much better than having it with couple of cars for 2-3 times extra cost.

We all know how this would end: someone buys three copies and sells 2 locomotives to keep the rolling stock.

53 minutes ago, Vilhelm22 said:

Agreed.  Realistically, this would have probably 20-30 identical cars - both pricey and boring.  It’s a lot better with none, or one additional car which you can buy however many times, and Lego has gone for the safer option.

No, not exactly. When these locomotives were put in service, they were used for freight. 100 years ago, goods trains could consist out of multiple cars. A box car, flatbed and tanker wagon would be enough. Märklin has some sort of starter set:

2 hours ago, Vilhelm22 said:

No offence, but you’ve restricted yourself hugely there.  MOCing just needs practice - I was terrible when I started.  Also, I don’t know how big your physical Lego collection is, but it’s a lot easier to MOC high quality physical stuff than on LDD or similar programs.  Just have an idea and give it a try - you’ll be able to come up with something better than City coaches no problem, as they are extremely basic and have no texture or anything the majority of the time.

It's not only practice, it's time. I have so many other things on my mind and to do around the house that I just want to enjoy building something.

 

[AlmightyArjen]

2 hours ago, LegoPanda said:

I think there is only this one picture of it, and I think it's be hard to recreate it from this. But if you are able to I'd love to see the result.

Kind of looks like it uses two motors, judging from it having drive rods on both ends

Thanks, I was hoping for some other pictures of the thing. I'll try using this picture but I see it has some exotic non available parts like the doors and the nose pieces.

[Chiaroscuro]

I understand that from a selling point of view just the lococomotive in a stand makes more sense to Lego. It keeps the price down, most people would not care for extra cars. Train fans that you like cars will probably build them.

However it would be nice from Lego if they provide options to expand the set. I know extra cars sets don´t sell but maybe to put some official instructions available? Lego don´t need to sell sets or bricks (although people will use B&P service) only provide instructions (most likely using only in current production pieces). It would be a nice way to foster and engage the community. Put a panflet or note inside the set to direct the buyer to a Lego established fan community.  However I have fears the copycats may take advantage of extra instructions....

Edited May 25, 2020 by Chiaroscuro

[*thomas*]

8 minutes ago, Chiaroscuro said:

However it would be nice from Lego if they provide options to expand the set. I know extra cars sets don´t sell but maybe to put some official instructions available? 

We all know LEGO will not do this... And that is what bugs me. They give us a great set, but it is what it is. A great set to LOOK at. 

If you have a huge collection of bricks and lots of time, you can moc... 

 

[Bartybum]

43 minutes ago, Chiaroscuro said:

maybe to put some official instructions available?

Dude just come up with something yourself

[zephyr1934]

Wow! I get distracted for a minute and this happens? I don't believe it, I thought lego would never make another AFOL train.

As others have said, I think the presentation is excellent, by making it a display model it will attract many more buyers, tapping into the non-train folks in the architecture and "model cars" (e.g., Ford Mustang) markets. There's no way they could have done a full train justice with a set this size and the price point (if truly 99) is very good. There are many train head AFOLs, but there are many more static model AFOL's out there who will be likely to buy this set.

I can totally understand where people are coming from wishing there were cars either in the set or available elsewhere. But that was one of the failings of EN, it had ONE coach. It needed 5 or 6 coaches. And so the locomotive showed compromises, e.g., the tiny tender. It would have been better as a two set offering- one loco and one car. But Lego has these sales targets that make it hard for AFOL trains to succeed. I think they did a great job threading the needle with the croc.

It would be great if they use this model to push their "instructions app" (they would love to replace the printed instruction books with digital instructions) by putting a few car design "inspirations" in the app that could be built either from parts in the set (except perhaps the normal train wheels) as if it were a 3in1 set and/or parts that they know will be on PaB for the duration of the set.

Regardless, I would not worry much about the availability of cars, people will make sets and instructions for cars to go behind the locomotive (that would make for a fantastic Bricktober train competition- make instructions for cars to go behind this loco)

I only wish they had made it in dark green rather than brown, it would have been an amazing parts pack on top of being what looks like an amazing set.

Now, how many copies do I need of this set...?

 

[Duq]

22 minutes ago, zephyr1934 said:

I only wish they had made it in dark green rather than brown, it would have been an amazing parts pack on top of being what looks like an amazing set.

Now, how many copies do I need of this set...?

 

In dark green I would have bought a second set on day 1 to finally get started on my E94...

How many copies do I need? 0.

How many copies do I want? Err... 1... 2... 3...

-- -- -- -- --

Having a strong sense of deja-vu reading the comments. We've been here before. LEGO have repeatedly explained why they no longer sell separate car sets. The last few times they tried the sales figure were just disappointing. You can argue that the quality of the cars wasn't great but that's a pointless discussion. LEGO do their market research. Often, and thoroughly. They get it wrong the odd time but overall they know what sells. No matter how big you think the LEGO train fan base is, it's tiny. Trains don't sell a fraction of Star Wars, Marvel, Ninjago or City.

For this particular set, they will sell more loco's without cars than with, and they would sell fewer cars than loco's if they produced a set with a single car. "But I would buy 3 of them and so would so-and-so". Sure. But for every person buying 3 car sets there are 10 people who will only buy the loco.

Why don't they include instructions for a car, or provide those instructions online? Two reasons:

1. Those instructions would cost time (=money) to develop at zero return on investment.

2. They would get numerous calls and email from people complaining that the pieces for the car aren't in the box. Seriously. Remember when there were pictures of alternative builds on boxes and in instructions? They stopped doing them because they received too many calls from parents that little Johnny could build model X on the back of the box because the instructions were missing. Unfortunately that's the world we live in.

-- -- -- -- --

I am really happy that LEGO are finally giving AFOL trains another chance, seven years after Horizon Express. I really hope it will sell well because that's the only way to get another one in future.

I'm not sure why they went with brown, I think it would sell better in dark green, but that won't stop me buying at least one.

[Tcm0]

It would be great if they could at least supply a train car basekit with magnets, wheels, maybe a train baseplate. Then you could MOC your own car. But without that prices for these basic elements are too high.

[Phil B]

52 minutes ago, zephyr1934 said:

Now, how many copies do I need of this set...?

 

No matter how many copies you need or want of this set, with the current supply chain issues (at least in North America), this will be hard limit 1 on LEGO.com, and it will go to Back Order on the first day it is available, and to Temporarily Out of Stock for the next 2 months on day 3. Just look at Pirate Bay and Haunted House .....

[paul_delahaye]

7 minutes ago, Tcm0 said:

It would be great if they could at least supply a train car basekit with magnets, wheels, maybe a train baseplate. Then you could MOC your own car. But without that prices for these basic elements are too high.

I agree, this is the basic requirement for modeling train accessories.  Even if this set was only available via shop at home/lego stores, it would allow kids and adults alike to build their own additional cars.

Very similar I'd like to see a box of say 100 of the 1x2 brick (with brick mould), which would help with scenary, wall building, stations, signal boxes, etc. readily available.  

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by paul_delahaye

[Rail Co]

I think people read into my post too much. When I said we haven't had a creator expert trains since 2012/2013 (seems to be a debate on that and  I certainly can't remember). What I meant was that we haven't seen a train that is part of what I consider the train theme altogether. I personally consider the Winter village train to be part of the winter village line, not the trains line. Furthermore, while the Disney train does look wonderful it doesn't really fit in with the AFOL trains that we had been getting like the 10183 Hobby train. the EN, the Maersk, and the HE. This is because I believe it is 8-wide and part of the Disney park line they seem to be having with the Disney castle and now the train.

Basically, I consider this the first true "AFOL" train since the HE. For the fact that it isn't part of any other theme or line of products.

On a different note, I think @zephyr1934 had a great idea of just providing additional instructions without the need to print them on paper. Lego has done this in the past with the 40th Anniversary of technic. While I don't find it likely that they will provide these as they will essentially be making no money off their time and effort to make the instructions. I think it would be a good middle ground for AFOLs.

Lastly, @Duq makes a good point that they used to have alternate builds, but took them away since they were getting quite a few calls. While it's sad that those are gone, maybe Lego could produce another thick ideas book for not only trains but city, technic, friends, even brickheadz, etc. That could include various different ideas so people could try to either copy them or make their own. Again, I think Lego is beyond providing extra instructions or idea books at this point.

Honestly, I am very happy with this set and might even buy a second model. Would I like coaches to go with this set? Yes. Am I upset they didn't provide them? No. I am happy they are trying out another Expert or AFOL oriented train. I hope this works out and we can get more!

-RailCo

[Chiaroscuro]

1 hour ago, Bartybum said:

Dude just come up with something yourself

I probably will, but that will take some time and effort. And I know a lot of people that like Lego trains but are not so enthusiastic and/or are still MOCs beginners. This type of iniciative could help gather more fans from casual buyers.

[Sinthoras]

I'm still hoping that we will one day see a Creator 3in1 rolling stock set for about 15-20 bucks.

[legotownlinz]

Holger Matthes's book 'LEGO Eisenbahn' has instructions for coaches that go well with the Crocodile. There are also instructions for the Crocodile in the book.

[dr_spock]

I miss those alt builds on the set boxes.  It was fun trying to build them from the picture.

When momma LEGO doesn't provide, commissioning someone to build the cars and/or create instructions can also be an option.  It can go from costly to free if you can find the right person(s)

 

[Vilhelm22]

1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

I only wish they had made it in dark green rather than brown, it would have been an amazing parts pack on top of being what looks like an amazing set.

The only reasons I can come up with are A) There are too many parts in the set that don’t yet exist in dark green or B) One of 10274-10276 is mainly dark green themed.

[*thomas*]

1 hour ago, Bartybum said:

Dude just come up with something yourself

Why? If this was the solution, LEGO should stop producing sets aimed at AFOL's and only sell bricks... 

[R0Sch]

I have started to reverse engineer the new 10277 set based on the blurry and small images alone and came up with this. What is already clear that the axles are in front/back section 9 stud apart and the middle section 11 studs apart so a new design of Powered Up train motor will come out to motorize the set. I read it will have the nr. 88013 and will be combined with 88009 hub.

Edited May 26, 2020 by R0Sch
additional pics

[The Brick Boss]

@R0Sch I see it can fit on tracks. This is definitely a must buy. 

[German Luigi]

Crocodile ready for motorization:

 

According to Promobricks this locomotive is ready for motorization. They write (translated by Google):

But what is a locomotive if it cannot run? An upcoming update for the LEGO Powered Up App will retrofit the function. This requires a powered up hub (88009) and a new motor, which according to our information will bear the number 88013. These components are (unfortunately) not included in the set.

 

Front- and backend of the crocodile are 5 wide, so the motor should be 3 wide, maybe a the powered up L-motor fits. This motor is not yet available as single item at shop.lego.com, maybe this becomes number 88013.

[Man with a hat]

Oh my. Didn't see that one coming. Ok haven't been able to check in regularly lately but even so. 

Anyway I like it. After EN, Maersk and HE this is a very good follow-up. Arguably a bit late but I am not complaining.

No wagons also has its benefits. You don't need multiple sets to get a decent amount of wagons...

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

2 hours ago, R0Sch said:

I have started to reverse engineer the new 10277 set based on the blurry and small images alone and came up with this. What is already clear that the axles are in front/back section 9 stud apart and the middle section 11 studs apart so a new design of Powered Up train motor will come out to motorize the set. I read it will have the nr. 88013 and will be combined with 88009 hub.

This solution hide a little trick but solves the problem of blind wheels ...great render for these pictures! 

[Polarlicht]

Do you guys think that the middle axle from the big wheels will be a blind/no-flange wheel.

These come in a 3-pack, 2x with flange and 1x without. I don't think lego would (by 12 flange wheels) include 6x blind wheels which don't get used?

Or they just don't use these 3-pack at all and throw those 12 wheels in the bags :D

 

And the small wheels on each end might be the cross axle ones!?

Edited May 25, 2020 by Coolusername

[Bartybum]

6 hours ago, Chiaroscuro said:

This type of iniciative could help gather more fans from casual buyers.

I’m not sure it’ll have a significant effect. Casual fans won’t have the parts to build an extra car to begin with.

6 hours ago, *thomas* said:

Why? If this was the solution, LEGO should stop producing sets aimed at AFOL's and only sell bricks... 

How is this a valid argument in the context of Lego providing instructions for free? Your logic makes zero sense to me. They produce sets because sets make them money

Edited May 25, 2020 by Bartybum

[Murdoch17]

I'm trying to MOC out some two wheel passenger / freight cars for this engine... and I have no idea where to start as I'm not to familiar with continental European trains. (UK is a different story) What is even the designation (class name besides crocodile) of this loco's real world counterpart?

Edited May 25, 2020 by Murdoch17