Bob

Pirates Mafia III - Conclusion

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Anyone can post here in your regular Eurobricks accounts!

Conclusion: Did We Win?

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"So, is that it?" Emmett asked. "Did we win?"

"Yes, Peter seemed to be an Imperial Guard. So, I'd say you've both won." Governor Broadside replied.

"Well, not yet." Vincent said.

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Vincent gently put his tuba down and pointed a pistol at the Governor.

"Sorry, Gov, but this is something I've got to do."

BANG

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"Vincent! What are you doing?!" Emmett asked.

"Don't worry." Vincent replied. "I'm not going to shoot you."

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"I just wanted to kill him. There are way too many NPCs in this game. I am a Neutral after all. The pirate survivor."

"A neutral pirate?! That's crazy!"

"Not really. There's only been like, three factions in these games. Obviously if I was neutral I'm working for the pirates. Anyway..."

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"My ride is here. See you around, Emmett! Good luck defending this fort when the Guards get here!"

"Arrr, hurry up Vincent!" Redbeard shouted. "And leave that infernal tuba behind!"

"Never!"

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"Well shit." Emmett said. "What do I do now?"

"Ahoy, soldier!" someone shouted from off camera.

"Now what?" Emmett asked himself, heading down to the docks.

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"Surrender your base or die! You're hopelessly outnumbered!" the Guards Captain shouted.

"Never!"

"Very well, prepare to fire cannons!"

"Yikes!" Emmett shouted, starting to run for cover.

Suddenly...

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"Fire all cannons!" Patrick ordered. "Take them out!"

BLAM!

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"We're outgunned!" the crewmember said. "Plus all our cannons are on one side. We'd have to move them all to the other if we wanted to fire!"

"Prepare for a tactical retreat! We'll get them next time!"

With that, the Redcoat ship sailed off, nursing its wounds.

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"Excellent work, Emmett." Patrick said. "Shame about Vincent being a pirate and all, but at least he helped us out in the end."

"Yay!" Liam shouted. "We did it!"

"I mean, we sort of lost the entire garrison in the process." Emmett said.

"Don't worry. If all the pirate NPCs from the first game can come back to life mysteriously, I'm sure these guys will eventually."

---

Congrats to:

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Emmett Ware (Shadows), a Loyal Soldier, as well as...

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Vincent Denis (Hinckley) the pirate Neutral!

As well as the rest of the town! An excellent game by the scum as well!

Players (16):
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Remi Blaise - Kristel
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Jean Pelley - jimmynick
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Fred Dumont - KotZ

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Peter Lyon - fhomess
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Michael Lavoie - nobody 
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Daniel Lucas - Medzomorak
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Trenton Monette - Tariq j
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Justin Reynaud - MKJoshA
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Emmett Ware - Shadows

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Andrew Laurent - mostlytechnic
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Aiden Leon - Trekkie99
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Joshua Levitt - Darkdragon
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Alex Howe - Dragonator

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Fabien Bellamy - Fugazi
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Vincent Denis - Hinckley
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Robin Tremblay - Escape The Fate

I'll have some more commentary later on today, as well as the night actions spreadsheet and more stuff like that. In the meantime, I'm a bit burnt out after hosting three games in a row. :blush: I'm looking forward to someone else finally hosting. 

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I left out the part where I was a Pirate sympathizer. I thought that might get me lynched. Everything else I said about my role was true. Except the part where I said hundreds of times that I was Town. Ignore that and everything else was true. Also, the part about having a strongarm modifier I could give to Peter was a lie. But, ignoring that as well, everything else was true. Great job, fhomess, with the fight you put up at the end. I take it you really didn't know that I was neutral on Night One. I just wanted to press your buttons on Day Nine.

I thought Peter was jimmy and Jean was fhomess. Funny, because I get them mixed up in regular games too. I thought Fred was Kristel! I can't believe it was KotZ and I didn't want to lynch him the whole time.

Great game, Bob! Thanks for hosting! It really was a slog to host all three in a row, I'm sure. This game was particularly taxing, but that isn't your fault. I did enjoy myself a great deal and am glad I played all three games. Looking forward to finding out if I was right about the Night Actions. Scum chose not to kill on Night Three and Trenton tried to kill Emmett (Shadows) for two nights in a row?

Oh, I was Vincent, by the way. :pir-blush: In case you couldn't tell.

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Here's the deadboard as well:
https://123.writeboard.com/7l20kb5zplc49nib5gdrue5e
password: tellnotales

Night Actions:
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Night One Comments: The investigator gets very lucky and targets a scum. The assassin stays home, the knight declines to protect someoene, and the scum kill the protector.

Night Two Comments: The scum kill the investigator. I'll have comments shortly about the investigator's Day Two when I talk about individual players. Scum find the blocker. They're in a strong position here.

Night Three Comments: A quiet night. The scum try to kill Vincent, but he's bulletproof and he's also been jailed by Daniel. 

Night Four Comments: This starts the nights where Peter keeps targeting Trenton with his rolecop, and is unsuccessful each time. Trenton declines to kill as Emmett tracks him. It's this point that the scum have obviously infected the townblock.

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Night Five Comments: Fred blocks Peter again. The scum are still in a good position

Night Six Comments: Nothing of note. The scum get rid of the Knight protecting Emmett. Unfortunately they don't seem to realize that with Robin dead, Emmett is no longer protected. This is the moment where the scum advantage starts to fall apart.

Night Seven Comments: This is where the scum game really goes off the rails. They lost Trenton due to falsified PM's. I said this in the deadboard, but any future game I host I'm banning sharing PMs. I should have done it for this game, but I didn't. Big mistake. The scum decide to block Emmett and kill Aiden. This was a big mistake. I assume the scum wanted to get rid of the Governor and they must have thought Emmett was still protected. I would've gone for killing Emmett instead. Even if Aiden pardoned someone, the scum could have won with their night kill.

Night Eight Comments: This is the last night. Peter decides to kill Fred instead of Emmett. I would've again gone for killing Emmett since Fred was the scummier between the two. The two blocks cancelled out allowing the kill to go through. Emmett decides to track Vincent.

Some analysis and player feedback will be coming shortly. I've got a fair amount to say.

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Welcome Hinck, and congrats. 

I was Andrew... and I screwed up a couple times pretty big. The scum SHOULD have won. My first big mistake was somehow forgetting that a neutral would count against us in the parity rule. I truly expected it to be over at 3:3:1 when that wouldn't make any sense. So we killed Robin night 6 when we should have stayed home, and it got us all caught. 

For the record Vincent, we tried to kill YOU night 3. Didn't give away your bulletproof though since Daniel protected you. Night 4 we stayed home and didn't try to kill. Night 5 we tried to kill Emmett, because I forgot about the whole seraph knight concept. I assumed that Robin's limited protect meant alternating nights or something, so since Emmett was protected night 4, we thought he'd be wide open night 5. 

And of course, thanks bob! Go take a break, somewhere that doesn't involve pirates. 

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Thanks for a fun, great game, Bob!

44 minutes ago, Hinckley said:

I thought Fred was Kristel! I can't believe it was KotZ and I didn't want to lynch him the whole time.

Hahahahaha! You couldn't tell it was me, Kyle? But seriously, I tried really hard to change up my playstyle for this one, and I learned a lot just reading and sitting back in this game, especially once I was confirmed to be the town blocker. My totally destroyed sleeping schedule due to covid-19 also really helped with trying to appear in a different timezone.

It's good to see some older players come back!

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Well carried, gg. Also thanks Bob!

Also: image.png.997c86f0005b10877e453bbeaf701c2a.png

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I guess I worked hard for that, haha :pir-laugh:

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Player Feedback/Comments:

Remi Blaise - Kristel: You died on Night One, meaning you didn't have much impact on the game. Trenton tried to pretend to be your Mason friend. The town lost their protector very early, for better or for worse. There's not a whole lot to say unfortunately. Perhaps the scum can explain why they took you out on Night One.

Jean Pelley - jimmynickI know I talked to you about this on the deadboard, but I think you came out way too early as investigator. I guess you thought getting rid of a scum right away was better than keeping the investigator in the long term. You would have had to have waited until Day Four to reveal Joshua being scum if you'd kept it to yourself and shared the information with a townie that you cleared the next night (in this case it would have been Fred) but I think you were much too obvious. Luckily the town ended up winning. 

Fred Dumont - KotZ: I don't know why everyone thought you were so scummy the entire game. I think it's because the scum did such a good job blending in and flying under the radar. It's a shame that the investigator died on Night Two, it could have been a very different game if you were cleared as town by the investigator.

Peter Lyon - fhomess: A valiant effort on the last day. I can understand if you're frustrated that the neutral decided to go with the town instead of helping the scum win. I'll talk more about why he probably did that when I get to him. I mentioned how I thought that killing Fred was a misstep on the final night. I think if he was left alive, it would've a bit closer. For some reason, everyone seemed to think that Fred was scum, so it might have evened it out a bit more. Fun fact, I nearly included a psychiatrist into the game along with a neutral poisoner. If I'd gotten more people, that is. The psychiatrist would have to try to pacify the poisoner by trying to target them at night. 

Michael Lavoie - nobody: No comments since nobody played him.

Daniel Lucas - Medzomorak: I'm not entirely sure where to begin. I know this was your first game on Eurobricks, but I don't know if you understand entirely how we play here. I don't know why your playstyle changed so seemingly from Pirates II to Pirates III. A lot of people are going to have some things to say about your behavior. I know that you're not used to the way we play. Every place and format does it differently, I've found. We have our own unique meta here. I recently played IRL mafia on Zoom and it's completely different. I feel that we threw you right into the deep end with this game. Most new players have to play a mafia school first which is a very basic game and format. Just because somebody doesn't agree with your viewpoints and issues a rebuttal doesn't mean you need to get abrasive. When I attempted to calm everyone down, you went after me, claiming that I stacked the scum team with veterans so they'd win. This bothered me. If you've got a problem with the game, wait until the end to air them.

I don't know what else to say that's not already been said in the deadboard. I still don't know what happened on Day One and Two. One day I'm going to have to reread them. I'm just disappointed that you took out your frustrations with the game on not only other players, but me. 

Trenton Monette - Tariq j: You did a good job flying under the radar until the town started to thin down and you couldn't anymore. Your mason play was smart, going for someone long dead, but it's much harder now to fake PM's than it used to be. Your downfall was that Trekkie was perceptive. I think if I'd had the "no copying PMs" rule in place, your position might've been stronger. There was some confusion when I told you that you couldn't share screenshots, but that was quickly fixed.

Justin Reynaud - MKJoshA: Another new player, which is good. You died on the first day last game, so I'm glad you managed to stay alive a bit longer. I don't know why you appeared so scummy to other people. Until the very late game it was the scum that appeared to be extremely town and all the town looked scummy in the eyes of a few people.

Emmett Ware - Shadows: Welcome back to mafia! I'm glad you joined again and you ended up winning, so well done. You did some excellent tracking and managed to stay on top the entire game. You're fortunate that the town didn't think you could have been scum as a tracker. I know you were a bit frustrated early on in the game. I thought it was a bit funny that you used shortcuts to find your name during those early days. Hopefully you stick around for more games. 

Andrew Laurent - mostlytechnic: An excellent game! It was a brilliant move to claim "Vanillizer" or whatever the role was called. It certatinly sounds like the type of silly role that I would include in one of my games, especially considering I included a Knight and I almost included a fruit vendor. You've said it already, but the scum's game started to fall apart when the game evened off to 3:3:1. It was very close for the scum until the neutral decided that he wanted to win with the town instead of the scum. 

Aiden Leon - Trekkie99: This is three games that I've included a governor and nobody has used the action. In the future, I think I'll have it so the governor cannot self-target to un-lynch themselves, which could encourage them to use the action. You did a good job blending in on Day One until your inner-Trekkie started to come out. :laugh:

Joshua Levitt - Darkdragon: You were the unfortunate target of an investigator. Take solace in knowing that the investigator coming out to get rid of you caused his death that night, so essentially the scum sacrified one of their own to get rid of the investigator. A fair amount of people seemed to suspect you regardless, so you might've been hurt by that.  

Alex Howe - Dragonator: Welcome back to mafia as well. I'm so sorry that I made you the only vanilla in a game of power roles, but I wanted to switch things up a bit. Unfortunately that led to your death. The town couldn't comprehend that I might switch things up a bit, which is something I'm going to talk about when I get to Fugazi. I suppose in a game of people claiming all sorts of ridiculous roles, you claiming vanilla looked suspicious since most everyone else had a night action. Your death didn't seem to convince the town that I might've switched things up between games, as evidenced with:

Fabien Bellamy - Fugazi: You were the first "vigilante" that I've included in one of my games in awhile. I haven't included vigilantes in my games and I decided to do so this game, but with limited shots and restrictions. Unfortunately, as with Dragonator, the town couldn't seem to think that I'd switch things up between games. 

Vincent Denis - Hinckley: There's a lot to say about the person with the biggest post count. :laugh: You were going for the standard undercover neutral survivor win and were blending in well up until Daniel started to call you out heavily. Then you turned back into Hinckley and decided to use your bulletproof-ness to win with the town, presumably to spite Daniel who was so adamant that you were scum. The scum are presumably upset that you opted not to win with them. If you had, the game would've been over a lot sooner with a scum victory. Regardless, good work surviving until the end and winning for the pirates. 

Robin Tremblay - Escape The Fate: Welcome back to mafia as well! You decided to Knight someone that was bulletproof regardless, so I suppose it's a good thing that you failed that night and were able to Knight Emmett instead, which arguably contributed to the win. The scum seemed to misunderstand the Knight role. If you die, that means that you no longer protect your target. I think the scum might have thought that you protect Emmett for the rest of the game, even if you're dead. 

 

I might have more to say beyond what I've said on the deadboard later, but for now that's all I can think of. 

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Just read the deaboard. Really nice to see it so active.

@Dragonator I did leave out that Andrew ended up in my "likely-Town" column when I was gloating. Part of the reason I ended up trusting him was that being so wrong about Justin (sorry, @MKJoshA :cry_happy: ) shook my confidence in any of my reads. If he flipped Scum, I was going to be all over Andrew, but I really dialed back on all of my suspicions once Justin filpped Town and then Fabien after. @mostlytechnic , you did a great job via PM and making me trust you and you totally deserve credit for that being the second reason I dropped my suspicion of you. The gloating was more of a reflection that my early read was correct and yet it was set off the whole "ordeal." I needed some gloating after feeling so down about my ability to read people, so I purposely ignored the "trusting-Andrew" phase (although I had it parenthetically, but deleted it for readability) because I needed a confidence re-boost.

Also, you tried to kill me when you knew Daniel was targeting me? What happened there??

3 minutes ago, Bob said:

Then you turned back into Hinckley and decided to use your bulletproof-ness to win with the town, presumably to spite Daniel who was so adamant that you were scum.

Thank you for the feedback! (I have feedback for players from my last two games that I never got around to posting :blush: ) I don't know why people assume this ^ as I stated several times I wouldn't feel good about the win if I never helped catch any Scum. The Scum team seemed vastly disinterested in trying to work with me, although I admit I probably would've outed them. Peter even shot down the idea of my fake strongarm modifier, but probably because Andrew knew it was a gambit to catch him. Funny that Andrew didn't think Peter's responses were Scummy. :laugh: But, mostly, if I'm in the uninformed majority, I want to solve the puzzle. So, it would've been hard for me to give in and win with the Scum. Plus, if that became obvious, I would've been lynched. I would've redone my acrostic post if I wasn't afraid the first one would be found, anyway. Nobody noticed the one I made that said "I want to make sweet love to Peter." At least, if they did, they didn't mention it. :blush:

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Remi - that was pretty much a random pick, so we got lucky.

Trying to kill Vincent - we had basically decided to not kill that night, so Trenton tried to kill you knowing it'd fail in case someone was watching. Cause why would he try to kill someone being blocked if there was a spy in the town block? 

Governor - I like the idea of the role, but it's hard to use. How often would I think so strongly that someone is town (when the rest of the game is lynching them) to revive them? Pretty rare I'd think - so I'd save it till late and only really be able to use it if I was in the town block enough to know who to trust. 

Fred - I'm not sure that you were actually scummy, as much as most people assumed either you or I was scum. 

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What a fun game. I lost my mind a couple times with all the evidence pointing towards someone being scum and then they flip being town. I am glad I successfully protected Emmett from dying. If Daniel hadn’t jailed me I would have protected Vincent the rest of my nights. So in a weird way Daniel saved the town. 

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Town targeted 3 scum on night 1.  Wow!

I really didn't have the time I needed to commit to this game.  Things just got busy pretty fast and then I was only able to post a few times a game day.  My scum team even thought I was going to be AWOL at first, so apologies all around for that.

Looking at the town roles... wow, I feel like that's a hugely stacked town and we still managed to get to Day 9.  I give most of the credit for that to Andrew/Mostlytechnic.  I thought he was super scummy and had heat on him so early that it was astounding how he managed to turn that all around.  My reaction to his Vanillaijzer claim was genuine... I was like, seriously?  But it worked.

I have to disagree with some of Bob's suggestions about our kills near the end of the game.  Killing Aiden over Emmett was important because Aiden had outed Trenton and we needed a town lynch.  There was no way that Aiden was going to get votes or go against Vincent, who was clearly hunting scum.  If I had killed Emmett instead of Fred, there's no was no chance that Vincent could be convinced Fred was scum.  So my only play would have been to admit being scum... that seemed less interesting.  Leaving everyone alive would've also just gotten me lynched

FWIW, I didn't know I would be able to block and kill until after Day 8 ended.

I think if we had killed Robin on Night 5 instead of trying for Emmett, we'd have been in better shape.  That was the night that things really started to turn to the town's favor.

Have I ever mentioned how much I hate living past Day 3/4?

I will say that I was expecting that we would not have to eliminate a neutral to win.  Since 3:3:1 wasn't parity, I did also wonder if 1:1:1 would be considered parity.  It seems counter intuitive to the concept of the neutral.  Why would we have to eliminate the neutral to win, but the town wouldn't?

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3:3:1 and 1:1:1 can't be parity because the neutral could win with any side so unless there wsa a rule that he could announce "I WIN WITH SCUM" to the host then it wouldn't be fair to end the game when it could be seen as 4:3 or 2:1 - and in fact hinckley worked very hard to win with town instead of scum for some reason, so obviously it wouldn't have been fair to force him to win with scum.

2 hours ago, Hinckley said:

Plus, if that became obvious, I would've been lynched. I would've redone my acrostic post if I wasn't afraid the first one would be found, anyway.

You could have ended the game on Day 6 by simply voting for a townie that seemed scummy enough to not get unlynched. :wink: That's what confused the deadboard I think, or at least me, because I thought it would be preferable to end the game than to keep going for another week or two.

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41 minutes ago, fhomess said:

I will say that I was expecting that we would not have to eliminate a neutral to win.  Since 3:3:1 wasn't parity, I did also wonder if 1:1:1 would be considered parity.  It seems counter intuitive to the concept of the neutral.  Why would we have to eliminate the neutral to win, but the town wouldn't?

If I were a serial killer with my own win condition, I think 1:1:1 would've been a nightmare for Bob. Just like WalterKovacs's Unrest in the Forest. Remember that one? :laugh: I was told I could beat everyone if I killed off the Town, but Walter had told the Scum they could win with me. I wanted to win alone, otherwise I wouldn't have killed The Foog.

I think I'm the first Survivor in a very long time. I don't think we're used to that role here and it was a good twist. @Bob Why did you choose to add a Neutral to this version of the game? Also,...WHY ME???? :laugh:

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30 minutes ago, Darkdragon said:

3:3:1 and 1:1:1 can't be parity because the neutral could win with any side so unless there wsa a rule that he could announce "I WIN WITH SCUM" to the host then it wouldn't be fair to end the game when it could be seen as 4:3 or 2:1 - and in fact hinckley worked very hard to win with town instead of scum for some reason, so obviously it wouldn't have been fair to force him to win with scum.

Why would the neutral have to declare it?  A win condition should just happen.  Neutral survivor should win with either team when they meet their win condition, and those team's win condition should be independent of the survivor.  Otherwise, the survivor is not really neutral because he impacts another team's win condition.  The fact that Hinck worked hard to side with town should not matter.  I can see it being unfair to town, but Hinck wins either way, so I hardly see why it's unfair to him.

30 minutes ago, Darkdragon said:

You could have ended the game on Day 6 by simply voting for a townie that seemed scummy enough to not get unlynched. :wink: That's what confused the deadboard I think, or at least me, because I thought it would be preferable to end the game than to keep going for another week or two.

Very much this.  The fact that Hinck was making no effort to help the scum seemed like reason to not trust him.  Never trust a neutral™. :pir-tongue:

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4 minutes ago, fhomess said:

Very much this.  The fact that Hinck was making no effort to help the scum seemed like reason to not trust him.  Never trust a neutral™. :pir-tongue:

Town should have lynched him as soon as he declared he was  a neutral . :grin:

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Thanks for the fun game Bob!

We owe a lot to Andrew/Mostlytechnic for getting us so far and infiltrating/creating the town block. It was a HUGE help to know who was being blocked/tracked every night.

I had quite a lot of RL stuff going on so I wasn't as active as I would've liked. I think all the arguing on the first few days helped me fly under the radar and get to Day 7. I agree that killing Emmett on Night 5 would've helped. Our assumption was that Robin could only protect on alternate nights when he said his role was limited. 

We discussed this a little in the scum board but we were very lucky with our first few kills. Taking out the protector and investigator early on plus the fact Micheal/the watcher was mod killed. 

If I'd posted my "responses" to Remi's "PMs" initially then Hink wouldn't have asked me to post them again and I might have just gotten away with it... Would've been interesting to see how things would've turned out. I will say it was very fun to fabricate a conversation with myself. I was thinking of making Micheal my mason buddy initially... thank God I didn't since he didn't post and I wouldn't have been to fake anything. 

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5 minutes ago, Darkdragon said:

Town should have lynched him as soon as he declared he was  a neutral . :grin:

Right??? How did I not get lynched in this game? I know everything not to do if I ever have to play a Jester.

That's the issue of playing Neutral and it seems to be assumed from the other players whenever there's a Serial Killer. The Neutral can't choose to work with the Scum because they don't know who the Scum are. We went back and forth a lot on Andrew via PM at night. I started a couple of nights asking Emmett and Aiden why Andrew was acting so Scummy. There were pockets of it, but when we'd start PMing, mostlytechnic did an amazing job at getting us to trust him, nightly. But, what would he have done if I took the risk and was like "Hey Andrew, if you're Scum do you want me to vote with you tomorrow?" He'd have started the next day with "Vincent offered to work with me if I were Scum, he can't be trusted!" My only risk of dying was being lynched, so I had the opportunity to play a bold game, but not that bold. You can't trust Scum. I am exceedingly surprised I didn't get lynched especially after all the scrutiny on Days One through Four. Nobody ever really voted for me outside of Daniel, Justin and Andrew, though. :def_shrug:

Can we see the scum board?

15 minutes ago, Tariq j said:

 I was thinking of making Micheal my mason buddy initially... thank God I didn't since he didn't post and I wouldn't have been to fake anything. 

Also, since we knew the player never showed up, that would've been a dead giveaway. I thought you were Trenton just based on the lack of posting and posts being made late at night in my time zone. When you said you were a n00b it threw me because I was sort of convinced Trenton was you.

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Hello all. I was Reginald in Pirates II and died night 1. So I view this as my first real Mafia game. Some thoughts on the current meta:

On 4/3/2020 at 9:24 AM, Hinckley said:

 

On 3/31/2020 at 5:22 PM, Trekkie99 said:

I was kinda hoping Ethan would turn out to actually be a new player since that would've been so cool to see a new player do so well. But there was no way. 

You know what's stupid? I was also hoping this for Ethan. :wacko:

People say they want a new player to be able to do well. But my experience as a new player makes this statement seem insincere. What you really want is to win, at any cost. And Mafia is a game so there's nothing wrong with that. You'd be happy for a new player to join, but heaven forbid they attempt to play their own way instead of the EB-meta way. Any action that doesn't fit the meta as long-playing players define it are seen as scummy immediately. There was so much "your argument doesn't fit the way I expect an EB player to argue, therefore you're scum."

On 4/24/2020 at 2:39 PM, Vincent Denis said:

Please accept my deepest apologies if you are town, especially if this is your first game. Our games are typically a lot more fun that this. Or, at least, I think they are...

For everyone, I really think that's one thing we should keep in mind when expressing suspicions: our roles are randomly selected. The people playing scum aren't bad people, so there's no need to attack anyone you're suspicious of. I know I contributed to that on Day One with my heavy amounts of sarcasm and for that I truly apologize, again. I'm not having any fun in this game and I'm really trying to be positive and productive. Stepping out of the game for a moment, as a fellow player I respectfully ask that people take a few breaths and post calmly. We could all use positive energy right now. Giving game advice to the person I suspect the most has been the best I've felt in this game. EB Mafia has always been about having a good time playing an informed minority game. I, personally, would love if it could continue to be that for everyone.  

I read a few games before attempting to play, Pirates I and Star Trek specifically. And the games seem to pretty much go this way each time. There's a lot of yelling and a lot of accusation of personal character. So I don't know why you think those were more fun than this. It's Mafia, it's all about the psychological warfare. 

What wasn't fun for me, and certainly turns me off from trying future games, is the meta-game as it stands. You all have been playing this for 10 years. There's a culture built up around EB Mafia now. *cough* *cough* Hinckley-culture *cough* *cough* That's not a bad thing, but it does mean new players have to conform to the meta if they want to join. I don't want to take time to do that, but that's just me. Take the observations for what their worth and I hope you all continue to have fun.

And thank you @Bob for being so patient with everyone for 3 games!

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4 minutes ago, Hinckley said:

The Neutral can't choose to work with the Scum because they don't know who the Scum are.

Well when I say work with the scum, I meant you seemed to have figured out likely scum/town and the numbers were pretty obvious, so logically if everyone thinks it's 3:3:1 then if you as a neutral vote for someone you are pretty sure is town then you're working "with the scum" at that point even if you don't know who they are :classic: just to end the game with a win and not drag it out.  In this game, the neutral  was guaranteed a win if he didn't get lynched 

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8 minutes ago, Darkdragon said:

Well when I say work with the scum, I meant you seemed to have figured out likely scum/town and the numbers were pretty obvious, so logically if everyone thinks it's 3:3:1 then if you as a neutral vote for someone you are pretty sure is town then you're working "with the scum" at that point even if you don't know who they are :classic: just to end the game with a win and not drag it out.  In this game, the neutral  was guaranteed a win if he didn't get lynched 

All the Scum needed at 3:3:1 was one lynch and it didn't matter if it were Town or me, so that would've been the worst time to reach out to them.

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1 minute ago, Darkdragon said:

ok

:laugh: Sorry. That came out very quickly. I'm dealing with a plumbing emergency while geeking out over the conclusion. I see what you mean. Voting for a likely Townie is not the same as reaching out. The only time I felt I had that option was Day Nine. I truly never knew for sure who was Scum. I would've felt bad about winning if I never truly understood who was Scum in the game. I guess that's one reason why, according to Mafia Wiki, nobody likes to play a Survivor. :laugh:

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1 minute ago, Hinckley said:

:laugh: Sorry. That came out very quickly. I'm dealing with a plumbing emergency while geeking out over the conclusion. I see what you mean. Voting for a likely Townie is not the same as reaching out. The only time I felt I had that option was Day Nine. I truly never knew for sure who was Scum. I would've felt bad about winning if I never truly understood who was Scum in the game. I guess that's one reason why, according to Mafia Wiki, nobody likes to play a Survivor. :laugh:

I like playing 3rd party. Its a tough role to play but you had balls to just come out and say it early. It helped you were bulletproof. 

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Thanks for a great game, @Bob.  I was happy to be watching this one from the sidelines for majority of the game.  

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