Officially not a toy anymore

[MAB]

I'd say the Haunted House is a toy rather than a display piece. It has play functions built into it. Whereas larger SW sets, Helmet series, etc are much less toy like.

[ARC2149Nova]

2 hours ago, Mylenium said:

You're exactly making my point and that's why Barracuda Bay absolutely fails for me on so many levels - no advanced techniques, no good use of new parts and to boot it uses this ghastly basic color scheme from way back than. It doesn't advance the theme, it merely panders to a certain kind of fans indulging in their childhood memories. I mean the fan design was awesome, but they completely ruined it by forcing it into their corporate formula.

Mylenium

To be fair, I don't see what's wrong with a build that uses "basic" techniques. Barracuda Bay does what it's supposed to, remake and update a classic. If you don't like it, that's fine, but that doesn't make it a fail or a bad set.

[Aanchir]

16 hours ago, Mylenium said:

You're exactly making my point and that's why Barracuda Bay absolutely fails for me on so many levels - no advanced techniques, no good use of new parts and to boot it uses this ghastly basic color scheme from way back than. It doesn't advance the theme, it merely panders to a certain kind of fans indulging in their childhood memories. I mean the fan design was awesome, but they completely ruined it by forcing it into their corporate formula.

Having built Barracuda Bay myself, it has LOADS of advanced (and brilliant) techniques. Far more than the original project, which was mostly a standard studs-up build, even while maintaining all of the advanced techniques that WERE in the original project like the crooked windows and SNOTted wooden boards!

Its color scheme is also nowhere near as "basic" as people make it out to be. It does use white, red, black, yellow, grey, and brown, like the original Black Seas Barracuda did (albeit with substitutions for obsolete browns or greys). And aside from the striped sails, almost all of those colors are used in a period-accurate manner. But it also uses lots of colors that weren't around or weren't used extensively back then to add further realism: Brick Yellow, Sand Yellow, Dark Stone Grey, Dark Brown, Medium Nougat, Bright Green, Bright Yellowish Green, Medium Azur, etc.

Overall, the standard of realism ends up as high or higher than the original project, and it's puzzling that people are STILL acting like having any bright color is somehow a travesty. Even the Temple of Airjitzu and Ninjago City were both way more brightly colored than Barracuda Bay, and they got heaps of praise from AFOLs, even those who'd never previously had any interest in Ninjago as a theme. It turns out that dull, low-contrast color schemes aren't somehow objectively superior to brighter, high-contrast ones.

Moreover, there is no "corporate formula" they forced the project into. They made these changes with the enthusiastic approval of the project creator, who vocally prefers the final design over his own original concept model. Turns out, not every artist or designer who disagrees with your creative tastes is secretly just sacrificing or denying their own creative integrity in the name of profit.

It's fine if some AFOLs disagree with the designers' choices… but I wish people would stop acting like they were some sort of unfeeling, ignorant corporate "formula" enforced against the will of actual creative thinkers, when we have plenty of evidence that it was the set designers' and fan designer's shared enthusiasm for the project and for the LEGO Pirates theme that drove those decisions.

[AmperZand]

On 5/14/2020 at 8:32 PM, koalayummies said:

Wouldn't a therapist be a better choice than repetitively posting on an internet forum how :insert company: needs to bring back a childhood comfort blankey?

Right now is the golden age of Lego. Look at the colors and pieces we have now. All those old sets were like building a Piet Mondrian composition.

Five years ago, a Mondrian sold at auction for over $50 million. Modern art museums around the world put Mondrians on display rather than keep them in their reserve collections. You can buy posters, fridge magnets and other reproductions of Mondrian's paintings. People like Mondrian.

Why? Nostalgia? For some perhaps. Piet Mondrian died in 1944 and produced his most famous pieces in the '20s and '30s, so if nostalgia is the reason, his fan base is getting pretty old. No, the reason that people like Mondrian is aesthetic.

Back to LEGO. Why do people like Classic X? Nostalgia? No doubt it plays a part, maybe even a big part.

But is nostalgia the only reason? Do people who hanker for Classic X need counselling as you suggest? If those LEGO classics had no value except for the nostalgia they elicit, you would expect some characteristics of Classic X fandom:

First, the fans of a particular period would be more or less the same age as they would have been kids when those sets were new. Is that in fact the case? Maybe. I genuinely don't know. But even in this thread, there was mention of someone having appreciation of LEGO that was current before their childhood. So I suspect not.

The same applies to place. You would expect that fans of a particular period would be from countries where those sets were available when they were young. Is that the case? Again, I really don't know. It would be interesting to find out if, for example, Classic Space was available in Brazil in the late '70s and, if not, if there are fans of it there today.

Second, the fans of a particular period would only like the sets of that time (or MOCs they made in childhood from them). Is that the case? Judging by pictures of LEGO owned AFOLs that are posted online here at EB and elsewhere, the answer is no. The picture evidence proves that the affinity goes beyond the sets they had or MOCed as kids. There are lots of MOCs online in Classic X style that do not appear to be reproductions of MOCs from childhood. Nostalgia alone does not account for it. 

So if not pure nostalgia, then what? Could it be an appreciation for the minimalism, clean lines, primary colours and imagination required to value it? Isn't that why people like Mondrian?       

 

[TeriXeri]

On 5/14/2020 at 9:32 PM, koalayummies said:

Wouldn't a therapist be a better choice than repetitively posting on an internet forum how :insert company: needs to bring back a childhood comfort blankey?

Right now is the golden age of Lego. Look at the colors and pieces we have now. All those old sets were like building a Piet Mondrian composition.

Couldn't I say the same about people wanting more sets/figures from a Star Wars movie from 1977 (A New Hope) 1980 (Empire Strikes Back) , a very similar time period to the start of LEGO Space.

I agree there are more parts and colors now, and those can certainly be used for Classic themes as well as Licensed.

I don't think the majority would want 100% copies of old sets.

And in the past 20 or so years, just look how many LEGO has made same-subject sets again, from X-Wings to Falcons and Hogwarts to an AT-AT etc.

Anyway, this isn't meant to be bashing Licensed , but I can see a lot of "nostalgia" on licensed themes as well, TV shows, Music Bands, Disney, etc seem popular on Ideas for example , and many of those aren't even based on recent properties.

IDEAS sets like Steamboat Willie (1928), or The Flintstones (1960-1966) or F.R.I.E.N.D.S. (1994-2004) , or even more real-world happenings like Saturn V (1967-1971) aren't exactly very recent either. (not talking about the year LEGO released sets but the source material)

 

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by TeriXeri

[koalayummies]

40 minutes ago, AmperZand said:

Five years ago, a Mondrian sold at auction for over $50 million. Modern art museums around the world put Mondrians on display rather than keep them in their reserve collections. You can buy posters, fridge magnets and other reproductions of Mondrian's paintings. People like Mondrian.

Why? Nostalgia? For some perhaps. Piet Mondrian died in 1944 and produced his most famous pieces in the '20s and '30s, so if nostalgia is the reason, his fan base is getting pretty old. No, the reason that people like Mondrian is aesthetic.

Museums have also displayed burlap sacks full of feces, urinals as sculpture and artists have won awards for photographs of religious objects in jars filled with urine. Britney Spears' used pregnancy test sold for over five thousand dollars, the window of the book depository where JFK was shot from sold for $3 million (just the window frame and glass), and a grilled cheese sandwich with char that some said looked like the virgin Mary sold for $28,000 USD. Just because someone paid a lot of money for something or a museum put it on display doesn't mean its beloved by all or exempt from criticism.

Lego is no longer restricted to 5 colors (thank goodness). That was the point, not museums or overpaying.

43 minutes ago, AmperZand said:

But is nostalgia the only reason? Do people who hanker for Classic X need counselling as you suggest?

Second, the fans of a particular period would only like the sets of that time (or MOCs they made in childhood from them). Is that the case? Judging by pictures of LEGO owned AFOLs that are posted online here at EB and elsewhere, the answer is no. The picture evidence proves that the affinity goes beyond the sets they had or MOCed as kids. There are lots of MOCs online in Classic X style that do not appear to be reproductions of MOCs from childhood. Nostalgia alone does not account for it.

Was addressing the very vocal individuals whom constantly, repetitiously, incessantly post about bring 'back classic space, classic pirates, classic castle, classic town'. I think you might be conflating some members who build awesome MOCs with others who spend much of their Lego time complaining and opining for things that once were. That's what seems like a bit of an unhealthy mindset.

37 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

I don't think the majority would want 100% copies of old sets.

The relentless posting pictures of the old stuff alongside regular complaints of the new gives off that impression.

[Aanchir]

1 hour ago, koalayummies said:

Was addressing the very vocal individuals whom constantly, repetitiously, incessantly post about bring 'back classic space, classic pirates, classic castle, classic town'. I think you might be conflating some members who build awesome MOCs with others who spend much of their Lego time complaining and opining for things that once were. That's what seems like a bit of an unhealthy mindset. 

I don't think I'd consider it unhealthy, really. What people are most interested in seeing from LEGO tends to be driven by their personal tastes or preferences, and it's not surprising that a lot of people's personal preferences are driven by either nostalgia, or a more general excitement for the idea of seeing how subject matter from LEGO's past could be improved with modern parts/colors/building techniques.

Both those things certainly appeal to ME a great deal, even if it's not strictly in the context of a reboot of a specific classic theme. For example, when looking at new set designs, I can't help but marvel at the thought of how exciting they'd have been to me as a kid, ESPECIALLY when they resemble an updated counterpart of stuff I actually DID have positive experiences with in my own childhood.

I do think that the pleas of "bring back (insert theme here)" are often irritating, but not because there's anything WRONG with wanting to see reboots or updates of older stuff. What's more frustrating to me is how often those pleas are used to disparage newer sets and themes — for example, criticizing Power Miners for NOT being an extension of Rock Raiders, or Ninjago for NOT being an extension of Ninja, or Elves for NOT being an extension of Castle.

It's also especially grating when people plead for the revivals of older themes in the name of "originality". Criticizing new or recent themes just for not being new-and-improved versions of themes you enjoyed in the past does nothing to advance the cause of "originality".

[koalayummies]

2 hours ago, Aanchir said:

I do think that the pleas of "bring back (insert theme here)" are often irritating, but not because there's anything WRONG with wanting to see reboots or updates of older stuff. What's more frustrating to me is how often those pleas are used to disparage newer sets and themes — for example, criticizing Power Miners for NOT being an extension of Rock Raiders, or Ninjago for NOT being an extension of Ninja, or Elves for NOT being an extension of Castle.

It's also especially grating when people plead for the revivals of older themes in the name of "originality". Criticizing new or recent themes just for not being new-and-improved versions of themes you enjoyed in the past does nothing to advance the cause of "originality".

If the chronic complaining in the form of disparaging comments and criticism justified by rosy retrospection becomes frustrating and grating to others then I would describe that as the opposite of healthy, but I'm not a clinical psychologist. Nevertheless I agree with what you said. I'm sure you remember the behavior by some in reaction to the T Rex Rampage announcement. When it gets to the point that adult fans of a children's construction toy are reacting like that I would say something is probably wrong. With some sets labeled as 18+ and thus adults being directly marketed to instead being hinted at as a plus sign after the number sixteen I just hope that type of reaction doesn't worsen when the official sets differ from what they had pictured in their head.

[Vindicare]

On 5/14/2020 at 10:57 PM, Mylenium said:

You're exactly making my point and that's why Barracuda Bay absolutely fails for me on so many levels - no advanced techniques, no good use of new parts and to boot it uses this ghastly basic color scheme from way back than. It doesn't advance the theme, it merely panders to a certain kind of fans indulging in their childhood memories. I mean the fan design was awesome, but they completely ruined it by forcing it into their corporate formula.

Mylenium

Isn’t that pretty much the point to Ideas? To pander to particular audiences. Back to the Future, Ghostbusters, Friends, just to name a few...all sets that wax nostalgia. It’s all about fan service there. 

On 5/15/2020 at 1:29 AM, MAB said:

I'd say the Haunted House is a toy rather than a display piece. It has play functions built into it. Whereas larger SW sets, Helmet series, etc are much less toy like.

Yeah, the Haunted House puts a kink in the “display only” theme the 18+ had going... which only furthers the mystery of why this set is under that umbrella. Maybe it’s going to be that way going forward for the perceived audit sets? While in the long run box design doesn’t matter to me, I just give it a decent look over when I first buy it. I guess time will tell if the WV & Modulars will meet the same fate. 

[Mylenium]

1 hour ago, Vindicare said:

Isn’t that pretty much the point to Ideas? To pander to particular audiences.

I don't think so. It still needs to have an appeal outside that and in particular with the Black Barracuda I just can't see that. It reminds me exactly of all the worst things why I never got into LEGO until a few years ago...

Mylenium

[howitzer]

I did a quick count on the IDEAS sets that have been approved for production. Of the total of 31 sets in Bricklink, 13 rely on some sort of license, and 7 are themed after real life science. Barracuda Bay appears to be the only set with any kind of connection to the past Lego themes so it's also the only set which can be said to pander to AFOLs with nostalgia. Mostly the pandering is directed at fans of various franchises and fans of science/space exploration, while other sets are more like curiosities with no clearly defined target audience (Ship in a Bottle, Maze, and others). So while there's certainly diversity in IDEAS, licenses are a big part of it, but nostalgia of TLG's own IP isn't. As for Barracuda Bay, I believe there are two separate reasons why it was chosen: pandering to nostalgia and a test if the market is ripe for pirates reboot. AFOLs will certainly get it, but it remains to be seen if the kids will.

 

[MAB]

3 hours ago, howitzer said:

I did a quick count on the IDEAS sets that have been approved for production. Of the total of 31 sets in Bricklink, 13 rely on some sort of license, and 7 are themed after real life science. Barracuda Bay appears to be the only set with any kind of connection to the past Lego themes so it's also the only set which can be said to pander to AFOLs with nostalgia. 

 

I don't know where you got that impression. Even LEGO's description for the Exo-suit mentions Classic Space three times.

 

[AmperZand]

20 hours ago, koalayummies said:

Museums have also displayed burlap sacks full of feces, urinals as sculpture and artists have won awards for photographs of religious objects in jars filled with urine. Britney Spears' used pregnancy test sold for over five thousand dollars, the window of the book depository where JFK was shot from sold for $3 million (just the window frame and glass), and a grilled cheese sandwich with char that some said looked like the virgin Mary sold for $28,000 USD. Just because someone paid a lot of money for something or a museum put it on display doesn't mean its beloved by all or exempt from criticism.

Lego is no longer restricted to 5 colors (thank goodness). That was the point, not museums or overpaying.

You have missed the point which is that nostalgia alone does not account for why an art object is valued or liked. I doubt that many (or even any) of your examples were valued for reasons of nostalgia. Just as those objects are appreciated for other reasons, so too could Classic X LEGO. Jumping to the conclusion that those who clamour for it do so for reasons of nostalgia indicating psychological problems may be false. There are many other reasons one can like Classic X. 

20 hours ago, koalayummies said:

Was addressing the very vocal individuals whom constantly, repetitiously, incessantly post about bring 'back classic space, classic pirates, classic castle, classic town'. I think you might be conflating some members who build awesome MOCs with others who spend much of their Lego time complaining and opining for things that once were. That's what seems like a bit of an unhealthy mindset.

I suspect the Classic X MOCers and those calling for the reboot of Classic X overlap a great deal. I don't have proof, just a hunch. 

[howitzer]

6 hours ago, MAB said:

I don't know where you got that impression. Even LEGO's description for the Exo-suit mentions Classic Space three times.

 

I stand corrected.

My impression came mostly from how the set looks, I don't really get the feeling of Classic Space from it, and it's long gone from stores so I didn't bother to dig very deep to find out what the original description were. But apparently other people do see the connection so maybe I just didn't look hard enough for it.

[Vindicare]

11 hours ago, Mylenium said:

I don't think so. It still needs to have an appeal outside that and in particular with the Black Barracuda I just can't see that. It reminds me exactly of all the worst things why I never got into LEGO until a few years ago...

Mylenium

By appeal...how so? I feel that a lot of submissions get put through because of the fan base attached to the subject, maybe as much as the set itself. I don’t remember, but wasn’t there something that got exposure on a forum dedicated to the franchise & the support shot up? That could mean that it reached that number not because people were interested in the sets itself, but the subject. 

Speaking for myself, the only Ideas set that I own that I’m a hardcore fan of is the Big Bang Theory & Voltron set. Of course Voltron hit me with a huge wave of nostalgia, so I fell in that trap. I’m glad I did as it’s excellent. I’m more of a casual fan of the rest, Back to the Future, Ghostbusters, and Wall-e  

I would be interested to see of the ten thousand that supported an Ideas set actually bought it, and of the ones who didn’t...why. I recall a big, and warranted, criticism of Steam Boat Willy was the inflated price from what it was. 

[koalayummies]

4 hours ago, AmperZand said:

You have missed the point which is that nostalgia alone does not account for why an art object is valued or liked. I doubt that many (or even any) of your examples were valued for reasons of nostalgia. Just as those objects are appreciated for other reasons, so too could Classic X LEGO. Jumping to the conclusion that those who clamour for it do so for reasons of nostalgia indicating psychological problems may be false. There are many other reasons one can like Classic X. 

I suspect the Classic X MOCers and those calling for the reboot of Classic X overlap a great deal. I don't have proof, just a hunch. 

You missed the point and went on a tangent arguing that because someone paid X amount of money for something and a museum put X in their exhibit; X is widely adored. It feels like this back and forth is more about the comparison of the limited color selection of old Lego to art that you enjoy and thus taking offense to my insinuated opinion that such a narrow color palette is aesthetically unappealing for a construction toy because I used the barf emoji to convey that viewpoint in the same sentence as the artist's name. Hence your multi paragraph defense of his works. Nothing was actually said about that artist's work. What was stated was an opinion that building Lego within the confines of the very finite selection of colors available back then is analogous to working in his intentionally limited fashion and isn't nearly as appealing as working with the range available today. Heaven forbid anyone actually say they don't like his work. Never again will I utter his name around here.

No conclusion was made or jumped to, the statement ended with a question mark. It was a slightly flippant hypothesis. The incessantly communicated longings for Lego from way back when alongside the constant derision of TLG's offerings right now is not to be scrutinized, that is now understood. May the perpetually consuming and preoccupied obsession with nostalgia continue.

Lego's new 18+, out-of-the-vault re-release of all the "golden age" of Lego from 19whatever to 2002.

Edited May 17, 2020 by koalayummies

[Mylenium]

11 hours ago, Vindicare said:

By appeal...how so?

Well, imagine I walked into a LEGO store today totally uninitiated and the first thing I saw was this abomination that is the Black Barracuda... I'd walk out again like I did for so many years. It's 2020, not 1990. And that's the point: I like the LEGO of today, not that old stuff. So what do a lot of the Ideas sets just aimed at triggering childhood memories do for me? Zilch. And since in another thread next door we're talking about potential implications for a business model, imagine I never even heard of LEGO in my life and was just looking for a nice construction-based toy, a movie-based collectible or whatever. It's those people that you'd need to convince to go with LEGO, not something else and IMO that's where a lot of Ideas sets fail. The are very "lego-ish", for lack of a better term, meaning you often have to already be into the scene to even get your taste buds tingled...

Mylenium

[howitzer]

44 minutes ago, Mylenium said:

Well, imagine I walked into a LEGO store today totally uninitiated and the first thing I saw was this abomination that is the Black Barracuda... I'd walk out again like I did for so many years. It's 2020, not 1990. And that's the point: I like the LEGO of today, not that old stuff. So what do a lot of the Ideas sets just aimed at triggering childhood memories do for me? Zilch. And since in another thread next door we're talking about potential implications for a business model, imagine I never even heard of LEGO in my life and was just looking for a nice construction-based toy, a movie-based collectible or whatever. It's those people that you'd need to convince to go with LEGO, not something else and IMO that's where a lot of Ideas sets fail. The are very "lego-ish", for lack of a better term, meaning you often have to already be into the scene to even get your taste buds tingled...

Mylenium

Of course IDEAS sets are "lego-ish" being designed by AFOLs and mostly aimed at AFOLs. They are, however, only a very small part of the whole lineup of TLG, as only a few are released each year so by no means they are the main focus of the Lego business model. You can't even find them in many retail stores, they are available only in better-stocked ones and online, a casual shopper with no particular interest in Lego who's perhaps buying a birthday present for relative's kids will probably never even encounter an IDEAS set. Though you'd have to be raised in a barrel to have never even heard of Lego, as it's probably the most recognizable toy brand in the world and almost everyone raised in a western country has encountered them as a kid.

[Vindicare]

11 hours ago, Mylenium said:

Well, imagine I walked into a LEGO store today totally uninitiated and the first thing I saw was this abomination that is the Black Barracuda... I'd walk out again like I did for so many years. It's 2020, not 1990. And that's the point: I like the LEGO of today, not that old stuff. So what do a lot of the Ideas sets just aimed at triggering childhood memories do for me? Zilch. And since in another thread next door we're talking about potential implications for a business model, imagine I never even heard of LEGO in my life and was just looking for a nice construction-based toy, a movie-based collectible or whatever. It's those people that you'd need to convince to go with LEGO, not something else and IMO that's where a lot of Ideas sets fail. The are very "lego-ish", for lack of a better term, meaning you often have to already be into the scene to even get your taste buds tingled...

Mylenium

Why would one set, out of hundreds, run you off? I imagine your tastes differ just as much as the the rest of us. I mean, you buy LEGO, so obviously they do. You’re not the only customer attracted to Ideas sets. One not doing “it” for you doesn’t hold much weight. I have a friend who went nuts with excitement at Barracuda Bay. There’s plenty of themes & sets that do nothing for me, but that doesn’t mean they’re objectively bad. 

[CP5670]

I've noticed that Lego as an adult hobby has become way more popular and mainstream over the last 5-10 years. I think the fan events as well as models people posted online have gotten a lot of people into it, and there are lots of sets now that are obviously marketed towards adults. If you look at the modular buildings and big Technic sets on the Lego website, they even show adults building them.

Quote

I find Technic a curious theme here, because while technology has certainly marched on, lots of core concepts are still the same as in 1980's and there were some truly genius techniques used (linkage in 856 bucket, the robotic arm of 8094 or the whole of 8868) and such cleverness doesn't seem to be around as much anymore. Also, while in the earlier days Technic sets were all about functions with very little attention given to looks, today the aesthetic side of things is just as important, and while I understand the reasons for it, I kind of miss the days when you could actually see how the functions worked inside the model instead of everything being covered in panels.

I agree, some of the classic Technic sets still have mechanisms we have never seen again. In fact I just built that robot arm again a few days ago, and the 8888 idea book comes to mind as well. The current sets are very complex and realistic, but the core mechanisms are not that innovative anymore and often similar to previous sets we've had.

Edited May 26, 2020 by CP5670

[MAB]

6 hours ago, CP5670 said:

I've noticed that Lego as an adult hobby has become way more popular and mainstream over the last 5-10 years.

It has become more acceptable to be a geek / nerd / hobbiest / whatever you want to call it these days. If TV shows with adults building with LEGO are mainstream now, then LEGO has made it into the adult world. And acceptance is not just in LEGO, dressing up like cos-play is much more prevalent these days, you can buy expensive (adult-priced) models for many TV series, and so on. Similarly building your own electronics is cool again - and even for girls this time - look at what Lady Ada (Limor Fried / adafruit) has done in that field.

[nerdsforprez]

Personally, I like the fact that I can play with and buy toys.  If other adults, or AFOLs, think that this this is something to be ashamed of, that is on them. 

When you have a great job, own your own home, have successfully raised children and a wonderful marriage AND you can play with toys; well, that is the most complete type of adult out there. 

Even the shrinks have been telling us for years that when one has successfully mastered being an adult, they often return to their childhood roots. 

It is nothing to be ashamed of.  In fact, insofar that one has successfully "adulted" (i.e. job, socially responsible, has family if desired, etc.) I take it as a sign of maturity......

[dr_spock]

The 18+ rating can also help those adults self-conscious about buying toys or "not toys".  Marketing psychology?  I think the older you get, you spend your hard earned money as you see fit and don't really give a rat megablocks what others think about that.

Correction:  ...a rat megablocks what others whom you're not married to think...

 

 

[PicnicBasketSam]

I don't own Barracuda Bay but I've built it in LDD and it's a complex and involved model, with a lot more realistic details than old-school Pirates sets ever had. The design is top-to-bottom excellent, working both as a throwback and an evolution, and the ability to fully convert it into a seaworthy Black Seas Barracuda revamp is excellent. The recommended age range on it is 16+ for a reason. Sure it uses a few pirate-specific pieces (the hull of the boat, the tops of the masts, cannons, the ship's wheel, custom cloth sails) and the color scheme looks simple (which I think is almost entirely because the railings are done in plain yellow like the original Barracuda set and not in gold) but that's part of the charm of a throwback model. There's also a Creator pirate ship coming out this summer that's totally custom built, isn't relying on nostalgia in any way, looks great and has great-looking alternate models, and costs half as much, that might work better for some folks.

An underrated product line that's targeting older audiences now: Speed Champions. Those 8-wide cars they came out with this year look incredible, and unlike that particular user's complaints about the Barracuda Bay set they very much do use advanced techniques and new parts/colors to their absolute best advantage. I had some of the previously scaled ones and the new models, especially the Ferrari, totally outclass them in every way.

[anothergol]

On 5/13/2020 at 11:55 PM, astral brick said:

In relation to the new rating "18+", good marketing strategy, many potential customers won't feel embarrassed

Ironically, other products labelled as "18+" would totally embarrass people.

 

If this is Lego testing the market, to later give us what China does, that is stuff really made for adults, all the adult licenses we've been missing, etc, then yeah I'm all for it.
But if it's just Lego's way of telling "yeah we also make toys for adults" and not go further, then who cares..
When you're still young enough that you're insecure and wanna be an adult, the last thing you want to be associated to is Lego.