LM71Blackbird Posted April 28, 2020 On 4/26/2020 at 5:50 AM, Bregir said: Are you suggesting the admiralty starts an inquiry into the actions of the officers on board to determine how they could lose this battle? In short, yes? I would very much be interested in seeing some more stats and numbers on this! Between my three ships this is what I had for combat stats Firepower - 27 Crew - 20 Hull - 25 Basically a bunch of junks beat the three toughest ships in all of the Corrington navy? I bring your attention to the KPA (Vol 3, Issue 6) August-October 618 when the Lightning valiantly defeated three black flag ships: Spoiler Corries Victorious against Black Flag Fleet Our agent in King’s Harbour reports that the Corrish ship-of-the-line Lightning had a very productive patrol in the Sea of Thieves. Although Lightning was heavily damaged, her crew report engaging a squadron of three ships flying the black flag. With the weather gauge and the element of surprise, Lightning sent Morning Fog to the bottom and did considerable damage to Killer Frog before having to break off and head for port. Ale is flowing freely in King’s Harbour pubs tonight! On 4/26/2020 at 8:37 AM, Keymonus said: About Lotii victory... I don’t know the specifics of their ships, but a first rate was by sure a great prize! I imagine the small Lotii ships avoiding direct fire and cutting down the masts and sails, and then firing at will on the immobilize giants, maybe sending small boats near and throwing hand grenades in the gunports. For sure, it would be nice to see an AMRCA result build! This is the only way I could see the Loti winning. But I'm sure my ships would have slaughtered them before they got that close! On 4/26/2020 at 8:37 PM, Bodi said: Hmmm, concerning the maneouvrability, it may be interesting to note that due to their rigid sails, rigging and hull shaple, the junks were in fact slower than galleons. In a naval engagement opposing them to 18/19th centuries Sotls or firgates, the junks will be outmaneuvred and shoot to smithereens one by one as sitting ducks. The european ships had better sailing ability, better trained crew and, no less important, much better armament. The sole advantage of the junks may be their low silouhette, making them less easier to spot. The only way the Lotii could win this, would be an immense advantage in number, something like 10:1, or hoping that they have more men than bullets. That's what happened in the Opium wars, the Manchus were literally slaughtered on every battlefield. But since we are in the Bobs, I guess there must be some magic effect in it. Again, it should have been a slaughter. Three ships with a combined 248 cannons should have destroyed the loti. Especially considering the fact that you Corries are supposed to have a well versed navy force. 29 minutes ago, Sir Kingston said: Not only is the armament far superior in terms of penetration, shot weight, and the quality of cannon itself, the range of the heavier guns should have battered the Lotiis from a safe distance. But as it was said previously, the way the game is balanced so that no ship is undefeatable... I'm not saying it should be retconned but... the only conceivable way the Loti could have pulled it off is if they managed to get close under cover of night. But I still feel the ships should have been able to outrun them if the battle got too intense. I'm all for balance, and obviously I'm slightly biased on the whole matter as it is my ships in question, however, I think class should be a more deciding factor in ship battles. Say a class 10 vs a class 6-10 would be a fair fight and more or less laugh at anything less. Just my two cents. Also, If anyone wants to do an MRCA result build on this I would support it fully! To put it bluntly, I suck at micro building at the moment, so I'd be interested in seeing a mini HMS Resilience! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt Wolf Posted April 28, 2020 I must say that I'm fascinated by this discussion about the capture of the first rate. A few things to consider: -The article in the KPA is a second-hand account, as gleaned by a civilian through non-official channels. As such, some details may be circumspect. -The Corries were outnumbered 2-to-1 in vessels and attacked from two directions. Such a tactical advantage could have allowed the Lotii to use their strength to advantage rather than fight in a traditional Halosian manner. -Maybe you are underestimating the Lotus capabilities. For example, a follow-up report from our KPA man in Spudkirk can confirm that Corrish officials have determined that Lotii crew numbers in the battle exceeded those of the HMS Resilience's squadron, and that Lotii firepower was greater than surmised by many. I really do hope that someone does a MRCA-result build for this battle! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bregir Posted April 28, 2020 A few comments to everyone on the MRCA and to @LM71Blackbird in particular: First, I get your frustration - the MRCA is a risky business, and you may have sailed out your ships believing they would be a match for anything - and yes, you have been unfortunate. I think this is a lesson for everyone that the MRCA can be a hard mistress, and no one is safe from harm. Ships are lost to enemies or the elements all the time. The upside is that this element of risk is what really makes it interesting. (Believe me, I have taken some hard losses in my time. On the other hand, I have also had some famous victories, both of which makes for great story telling) In short: The MRCA is truly an adventure, and a dangerous one. Don't be disheartened by a defeat, but get back up on the horse and get your revenge! (I suggested a few ways COR can help the Brickfords in our PM) Despite historical parallels, it is an error to assume that Lotii ships are inferior to Halosian ships. A lotus class 5 is exactly equivalent to a halosian class 5. (Whether any player then wants to play in (IC) that it requires a larger ship to achieve the same performance is up to you, but a class 5 is a class 5, whether it is Lotus, Corrington, or even Eslandian! (Although the latter will probably be hampered by the weight of all its gilding! )) There is nothing in the rules to differentiate ships other than their stats. Hence, speculations how it should and would have been historically are hence neither here nor there - it is all in the stats/class. Large versus small ships Larger ships have advantages in two areas: First, you can sail more stats in a smaller number of ships, which is an advantage considering fleet sizes and naval leaders. Second, you have to spend less on overhead stats such as range and manoeuvre. However, there is nothing as such to prevent a small ship taking down a larger (e.g. not being able to penetrate the heavy hulls). The stats are all that matters (plus a healthy dose of random numbers). Small ships, on the other hand, have an advantage of being easier to build and less costly per stat point. Specific stats Versus your (@LM71Blackbird) 27 ship levels at firepower 27, crew 20, and hull 25, the Lotus had 23 ship levels at 20 in firepower, 22 in crew, and 21 in hull. So yes, you outclassed them, but not by much. (See specific stats below.) IC: Your ships may have been becalmed, while the lotii deployed oars; your crews may have had the fever; a fire rocket may have diverted men to fight flames; or some other calamity. You may also have been boarded in a fog or similar. Spoiler I am not entirely sure what your point is about the former victory of the lightning, @LM71Blackbird - The fact that it won a victory over an uneven enemy seems only to confirm that the outcome of battle is hard to predict? People are welcome to discuss the MRCA results, but believe me when I say we should be happy with the current system. It is *not* easy setting up a battle generator, and @Captain Genaro has done some awesome spreadsheeting that, once the data has been cleansed a bit, readily calculates the battle outcomes. I think it is worth looking at the results in general and considering whether we think the current system is fair, fun, and fairly realistic. To me, it generally strikes the right balance, allowing all manners of ships to shine. An example is the gunboat strategy that has cost COR many boats, but actually also won some interesting victories. On the other side, large fleets have also won some famous victories. To be, hence, it actually does the job very well. Additionally, revising it (again) takes a lot of time and effort, and running BoBS is already taking a toll on leadership. I hope the above has given some clarity. Let us know if there are any questions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LM71Blackbird Posted April 28, 2020 6 hours ago, Bregir said: First, I get your frustration - the MRCA is a risky business, and you may have sailed out your ships believing they would be a match for anything - and yes, you have been unfortunate. I dont have much time for a detailed reply but here are a few remarks. I wouldn't really say I'm frustrated, just a little bummed out. I won't be losing any sleep over this by any means. I will sister ship or rebuild in the future. In the end, the KPA was a fun read and I accept the outcome. The might of the Corrish Navy was bested by superior numbers, not superior forces. I enjoying build large vessels and now I just need to build a few more! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bregir Posted April 28, 2020 1 hour ago, LM71Blackbird said: I dont have much time for a detailed reply but here are a few remarks. I wouldn't really say I'm frustrated, just a little bummed out. I won't be losing any sleep over this by any means. I will sister ship or rebuild in the future. In the end, the KPA was a fun read and I accept the outcome. The might of the Corrish Navy was bested by superior numbers, not superior forces. I enjoying build large vessels and now I just need to build a few more! That's the true Corlander spirit! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LM71Blackbird Posted April 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bregir said: That's the true Corlander spirit! Which is why we are easily the best faction! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fraunces Posted April 28, 2020 Just now, LM71Blackbird said: Which is why we are easily the best faction! well well well don't get too excited now friend Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roadmonkeytj Posted April 29, 2020 I love how the Corish readers assume there was a fire fight .... What's to say that the crews didn't swim to the vessel under cover of night and suffacate the life out of the reds while lying in their bunks never raising the alarm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt Wolf Posted April 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Roadmonkeytj said: I love how the Corish readers assume there was a fire fight .... What's to say that the crews didn't swim to the vessel under cover of night and suffacate the life out of the reds while lying in their bunks never raising the alarm Two words: Sea Ninjas! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darnok Posted April 30, 2020 They had a cave troll sea dragon! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt Wolf Posted May 20, 2020 On 4/22/2020 at 9:07 PM, Capt Wolf said: Ships Captured: MOC’d HMS Bull Shark (class 5) taken from Corrington by Professor Thaum HMS Resilience (class 10) taken from LM71Blackbird by Lotus Justicia (class 4) taken from Bregir by Roadmonkeytj Nightwing (class 4) taken from Capt Wolf by Lotus Rahab's Gambit (class 5) taken from roadmonkeytj by The Dragon Rhodos (class 1) taken from Merc by Captain Gore Un-MOC’d HMS Pegasus (class 5) taken from Corrington by Roadmonkeytj I know this is a bit late, but the KPA editors just found some dropped lines of type on the shop floor. While mentioned in the write-up, the following captured ships should have also been listed in the summary at the end of the issue: MOC'd The Lady Hawk (class 3) taken from LeColeon by Corrington Lady of Madrice II (class 3) taken from LeColeon by Corrington The Raenette (class 2) taken from LeColeon by Corrington Un-MOC'd Silent Shadow (class 3) taken from LeColeon by Corrington Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
