Toastie Posted October 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Daedalus304 said: 500mAh capacity, whereas the LEGO PF Rechargeable was 1100mAh Wait - I believe capacity and amperage is not used correctly here. In the document for that BlueBrixx box/system it reads: Daten: Spannung 7,4 V Output 500 mA Kapazität 14500 mAh Funk.: 2,4 Ghz Need to dig up, what the LiPo (8878) was delivering. Best Thorsten Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtomsen Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) LEGO Rechargeable Battery Box 8878: Internal current limitation: 750mA Capacity: ~1100 mAh Norminal voltage:: ~7,4V Souce: https://philohome.com/batteries/bat.htm No way does the Bluebrixx battery box have 10 times as much capacity but neither half as much. Either way, with a micro-usb charger one can always add a powerbank and prolong the running time several times over if necessary And the price is 1/5th of the LEGO one (not in production anymore), 1/10th of the BuWizz one and a little less than the current AAA PUP one. It's like comparing apples and oranges but for most of us it surely still beats homemade solutions Edited October 18, 2020 by dtomsen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toastie Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, dtomsen said: No way does the Bluebrixx battery box have 10 times as much capacity but neither half as much. Certainly not. If it were, electro-mobility problems were all gone. Now I browsed there forbidden zone a bit - it such a pain in the butt. But: These clone LiPo boxes, be it "PF"/2.4GHz or PUp all seem to be in the same range, about 550 - 1000 mA. Capacity wise I simply could not find out. After 30 min I had it. Best, Thorsten P.S.: I just sent them a message and asked about the data. Edited October 18, 2020 by Toastie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtomsen Posted October 18, 2020 The Bluebrixx battery box looks very similar to the recent CaDa rechargeable one (and is in all likelyhood made by them or at least the same factory). Pictures of the inside of the latter one show it's a 2 cell, just like the LEGO rechargeable battery box was. The older 5 bricks high CaDa one had a total capacity of 900 mAh, also with 2 cells. My best guess would be around 750-900 mAh but maybe we should just ask Bluebrixx for more transparency Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toastie Posted October 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, dtomsen said: My best guess would be around 750-900 mAh but maybe we should just ask Bluebrixx for more transparency Same here and transparency inquiry sent out. The BlueBrixx bot already told me they are at it - as fast as possible of course Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daedalus304 Posted October 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Toastie said: Wait - I believe capacity and amperage is not used correctly here. In the document for that BlueBrixx box/system it reads: Daten: Spannung 7,4 V Output 500 mA Kapazität 14500 mAh Funk.: 2,4 Ghz Need to dig up, what the LiPo (8878) was delivering. Best Thorsten Ah, I see. The Google Translated version of the mobile site was not so clearly laid out. I'll join you two in waiting for the official answer to "how much capacity is there?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toastie Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, dtomsen said: And the price is 1/5th of the LEGO one (not in production anymore), 1/10th of the BuWizz one and a little less than the current AAA PUP one. It's like comparing apples and oranges but for most of us it surely still beats homemade solutions Yes, yes - and yes. Plus: They use 5V from the USB port for charging. So the homemade solution is really, really simple: One bridge rectifier, a 5V regulator, USB cable ... and a power pickup. Wow. If this is even only remotely resembling the performance of PF/PUp controllers, I am ... getting softer and softer. Best Thorsten Shoot - the power pickup is for my train controlled version only of course. Discussed in this thread; sorry for that Edited October 18, 2020 by Toastie Thread mess-up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toastie Posted October 21, 2020 On 10/18/2020 at 10:11 PM, Daedalus304 said: I'll join you two in waiting for the official answer to "how much capacity is there?" @Daedalus304 @dtomsen This is what they wrote back: "Die Angabe zur Kapazität des Akkublocks war falsch und wurde aus der Bedienungsanleitung wieder gelöscht. Wir haben hierzu keine Angaben. Das System besteht aus 2x2 Kanälen, da die Kanäle 1 und 3 beide die Akkuboxslots 3 und 4 steuern. Die Kanäle 2 und 4 steuern die Akkuboxslots 1 und 2." Which essentially translates to "The capacity data in the manual were wrong and were removed. We have no further information regarding that data." I am not certain what the second paragraph translates to. In the manual, the remote which looks exactly like the LEGO remote (8879), features a channel switch with four positions. I cannot get that in line with the above statement: "The system has 2x2 channels, since channel 1 and 3 control the slots 3 and 4 of the box. Channels 2 and 4 control slots 1 and 2". I could mean that with channel switch position 1 you can control slot 3, with channel switch position 3 it is slot 4 and so on. However, that makes no sense as here are the two dials as well. But that was not the question. I believe it will be in the range 500 - 1000 mAh range, as other have suggested. Maybe someone here has such a set already and can give more insights? Best Thorsten Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtomsen Posted October 21, 2020 I'll run an extended endurance test when I get my battery boxes, hopefully before the weekend I didn't order the RF remote, so they better work with either the IR Receiver, SBrick or PFx Brick. Any other suggestions besides opening them up to look inside which I won't do? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zephyr1934 Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, dtomsen said: I didn't order the RF remote, so they better work with either the IR Receiver, SBrick or PFx Brick. I bet you need the remote... but if you do then BlueBrixx should have included a warning in the listings. You might be able to talk them into free shipping for buying a remote if that is the case. Failing that, tell them that you have already begun your review on Eurobricks... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toastie Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, dtomsen said: I didn't order the RF remote, so they better work with either the IR Receiver, SBrick or PFx Brick. The manual for that system says: "Eine Kompatibilität zu Infrarot (IR) und Radio-Control(RC) Empfängern besteht nicht." (There is no compatibility with the IR and RC receivers for this remote - which means it is also the other way around, I guess). What do you mean by "IR Receiver, SBrick or PFx Brick"? Do you mean the "IR remote", "SBrick App", or "PFx Brick App"? The BlueBrixx box itself is the server - and the client is the remote. They also say it is a "closed system" whatever that means. Yes, when you open the box, you will most probably find two LiPo pouch batteries - and they should say something (in Chinese ...) Best Thorsten Just saw @zephyr1934 's post; I agree on all you said. What I simply don't get is, why are they not in a hell of law-suit? Every single bit - everything is a 1:1 copy. Sure the electronics is different, but the cases, the plugs, the boxes, the motors ... everything. I don't get it. TLG is making such a noise with all that copyright stuff - and then this. How do they get away with this? Best Thorsten Edited October 21, 2020 by Toastie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtomsen Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) I plan to use the battery boxes as just that, battery boxes. They have PF connections and should be able to transmit power to any PF motor through either an IR Receiver, SBrick or PFx Brick and thus be controlled by them. The big show-stopper would be if they have a poorly implemented auto power off outside their own closed control system, shutting down after a set time without an active signal from the RF remote. If so, they would be worthless to me anyway but I'll find out for sure when I get them ? If they are anything like the CaDa ones it should work, 3:26 ? Edited October 21, 2020 by dtomsen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtomsen Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Toastie said: Just saw @zephyr1934 's post; I agree on all you said. What I simply don't get is, why are they not in a hell of law-suit? Every single bit - everything is a 1:1 copy. Sure the electronics is different, but the cases, the plugs, the boxes, the motors ... everything. I don't get it. TLG is making such a noise with all that copyright stuff - and then this. How do they get away with this? Best Thorsten As far as I understand it, LEGO holds few to no copyrights or patents for most parts anymore except a fiercely enforced so-called 3D trademark for anything resembling a minifig even slightly. The building brick market is wide open whether one likes it or not. And BlueBrixx did get smacked very hard for selling Chinese original sets with minifigs. They had to remove each and every one of those from all sets, Boy oh boy did they whine... Edited October 21, 2020 by dtomsen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toastie Posted October 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, dtomsen said: As far as I understand it, LEGO holds few to no copyrights or patents for most parts anymore except a fiercely enforced so-called 3D trademark for anything resembling a minifig even slightly. The building brick market is wide open whether one likes it or not. Ahh - that really explains it! Thank you very much. Now with regard to the show-stopping: The manual says: "Die Akku-Box verfügt ebenfalls über eine Selbstabschaltung bei Überlast und Nichtbenutzung nach 15 Minuten." Which translates to "The box has an automatic power down after 15 min of not using it and overload protection". Maybe the two permanent power lines of the PF wiring scheme don't though - you will find out! Does the CaDa box' permanent PF power lines time out when no RF signals come in? Best Thorsten Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtomsen Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) Now it gets interesting The cardboard box: Parts - "Don't eat it" The battery box and included micro-USB cable: The battery box itself: Weight: 58g or 2 ou Insides - 2 cell with apparently 500 mAh capacity each or probably both However I can already confirm that the battery box works with the LEGO IR Receiver out of the gate without the BlueBrixx RC Remote but for how long without an active signal remains to be seen during the duration tests later today Edited October 22, 2020 by dtomsen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coaster Posted October 22, 2020 16 hours ago, dtomsen said: As far as I understand it, LEGO holds few to no copyrights or patents for most parts anymore... They do hold a design patent for the look of the PF connector, but seeing as how it is a functional element (much like the stud arrangement), it's likely not very enforceable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toastie Posted October 22, 2020 @dtomsen Nice photographs! Now with regard to the battery pack: Is this like 2 AA sizes batteries (looks like) or are these of the pouch type TLG uses in the 8878? Best and thanks for all the efforts! Thorsten Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtomsen Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Toastie said: @dtomsen Nice photographs! Now with regard to the battery pack: Is this like 2 AA sizes batteries (looks like) or are these of the pouch type TLG uses in the 8878? Best and thanks for all the efforts! Thorsten Probably the first Photo found online of the insides of the very similar looking battery box from CaDa: Edited October 22, 2020 by dtomsen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtomsen Posted October 22, 2020 Testing with the locomotive from set 7939, 1 x PF Train motor and 1 x IR Receiver: Approx 13 1/2 min without an active signal and the battery box powers off by itself. Oh crud Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zephyr1934 Posted October 22, 2020 1 hour ago, dtomsen said: Approx 13 1/2 min without an active signal and the battery box powers off by itself. Boo! Keep us posted about any other discoveries, thanks for all the exploration thus far Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtomsen Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) 1st test run: 1h 45m (maximum speed) The total weight of the load was 444g. I'm now pretty sure it's 500 mAh The speed was almost constant to the end.Approx. 15 min without an active signal to the SBrick or PFx Brick and the battery box powers off. Edited October 22, 2020 by dtomsen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toastie Posted October 22, 2020 3 hours ago, dtomsen said: without an active signal to the SBrick or PFx Brick Does this mean, that the BlueBrixx box just needs a 2.4GHz carrier signal (or whatever it is) to reset its power off timer? Or does it see "sort of valid" codes? Best Thorsten Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toastie Posted October 22, 2020 4 hours ago, dtomsen said: The speed was almost constant to the end. This is what I like so much about LiPos. It is incredible. And yes they appear to be 500 mAh (each, in series): 500mA x 2h / 2 = 500 mAh each. Yes I know, I am a Math Genius and everybody else has figured out that as well. I believe to assume that the PF Train motor draws around 500 mA at full speed, dragging a mass of about 0.5 kg will all that friction is reasonable, right? Best Thorsten Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtomsen Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Toastie said: Does this mean, that the BlueBrixx box just needs a 2.4GHz carrier signal (or whatever it is) to reset its power off timer? Or does it see "sort of valid" codes? Best Thorsten I'm almost certain now that the power off also happens with the BB RC Remote without any new signals Edited October 22, 2020 by dtomsen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toastie Posted October 22, 2020 24 minutes ago, dtomsen said: I'm almost certain now that the power off also happens with the BB RC Remote without any new signals I believe you have proven this already: This box wants to see some 2.4 GHz signals to re-trigger the power-down timer. Now there are other thoughts. But first this: You are basically looking for a rechargeable LiPo device, that allows you to run your PF etc. etc. >controllers< permanently, is that right? Is there anything else, you find appealing or even a prerequisite? Maybe PF sockets or the like? I just try to find out, what the core of the matter is. Sorry for being so harassing. Best Thorsten Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
