Imperial Guards: Bluecoat and redcoat uniforms

[Amiral Villenerva]

For my it is already very obvious: The red minifigs symbolize the British, the blue the French. It is true the navy had persons on board dressed in blue, but only the officiers and higher-rank crew.

The blue minifigs are defenitely French because I've discovered something:

If you look at the little flag at the stern, you'll see a black symbol in it. It is a flower, the French lily.

The French lily was used as military symbol in France. So that's why I think the blue coats represent the French.

[Ratshot]

The blue are clearly French , my grandmother is french and told me when I asked her that that was the flur de le ,

The red are most apt to be Spannish.

[Scouty]

The red are most apt to be Spannish.

I don't think so. They are more likely British (if these guys are to be assigned to Countries).

The Spanish were more likely to look like the Official ones released in the mid 1990's or a uniform similar to this:

Don't...uh...notice the children

[Neptune]

The lego Spaniards are the Imperial Armada

[Legoking]

Well Dreamweb, I think the red coats are the British and the blue coats are the French.

[CPT. Jr]

I have had time to research this a bit more deeply and here are some of my findings.

Spanish

Conquistadors dressed similar to the imperial armada people, however no mini fig resembles the spanish naval, or land forces. The Spanish uniforms are characterized with yellow and white (mainly white with yellow trim for infantry, and white/yelow with red trim for artillary. However, some reds were used which slightly resemble the new soldier mini figs. The hats vary from tricorns to the shaco, with bicorn variations used sometimes for officers.

French

The royal french army (prior to revolution) used a combination of white and light blue with tricorns, and bicorns, sorry no unicorns

The Napoleonic/revolutionary army and navy used a darker blue with varying trims from gold, red, and yellow. The hats included shako's, tricorn, and bicorn a possible lego canidate is the bluecoats.

The English

The royal english army used a read coat(of course) with white trim (infantry, officers had other colors.) with tricorns, bicorns, shaco's, and the unicorn (ok.. maybe not, but the grenadiers wore a hat that came to a form of a point on the top). A good candidate is the redcoat mini figs.

The brittish navy wore blue with white or gold trim (gold was for higher ranking officers) with varying hats for the different officers (bicorn, tricorn, and a form of top hat.)

A good candidate is the blue coat mini figs.

I could have gone more in depth into the officers clothing, but i believe that this will sufice. Basically the bluecoat and redcoat are both or a likely and historically correct with the British.

[Captain Polka Man]

The bluecoats are French faring better in hand to hand and having extemely good cannoneers.

The redcoats are British faring better in accuracy (They were adapt soldiers and had the best line infantry any nation could offer) and having amazing cavalry.

My best bet would be to say that the british would win in a straight out line battle but if the french were using guerilla tactics then id say they would have the superior chances although if you use cavalry infantry hussars grenadiers and all that sort youll have to think on it for a while ok.

[Mister Phes]

It seems the recent LEGO Battles game has confirmed the blue coat mini-figure seen in 6242 Soldier's Fort is indeed Governor Broadside.

Now if the red and blue coats were two different nations, (I.e. France and England as some seem to speculate) it seems curious the leader of another French be included in that set. However, it would make much more sense if blue and red were in fact the same nation. And as history has shown the English used both blue coats and red coats side by side.

[Hound Knight]

I think the Blue-coated men could be the Colonists and the red-coated men, the British, as in the American Revolution.

That's what I've always thought them to be until I joined this forum. Now I'm just confused. j/k

I still think that the Bluecoats are Americans, but they can be pretty much anything really.

[Roadmonkeytj]

At the risk of being assaulted about the head and ears I believe this is the proper place for my two bits albeit raising the dead.  As I wasn't aware of this forum when the original conversation took place. 

My understanding of the blue coat was as originally released the governors ship sea Hawk which quickly became the clipper.  I have a lot of the supporting sets and it was my belief the this was a governors personal army and their sole mission was to stop the pirates and keep the orders of the governors land. 

Then later as the pirates grew in force the red coats were sent as reinforcement and replaced the governor as the commander as he couldn't fulfill his mission.   The Spaniards (the figures in the metal bucket caps) I feel came too late in the era but the sets were based more on the search for gold ... Aztec gold hence the influence of the islanders 

To me the red and blue were on the same side representative of old world and new.  

The Spanish had their own conquests and the pirate nation grew the whole period representative of the golden age.  All this is highly speculative but it is the way it made sense to me. If the red and blue were different country's then the blue would have coexisted with red not been replaced.   That's my theory because I have two versions of the lagoon lock up one with blue and one red both with the common goal of locking up pirates

Nations:

Blue - new world settlement

Later Red - takes over and fortifies new settlement

Spanish in other lands in same era 

Islanders the original inhabitants 

Pirate nation

Loosely based on history largely based on fantasy 

[LM71Blackbird]

I always thought of the bluecoats as either Americans or British Navy. The redcoats were always the ground troops. With this thinking, it would be possible to have two different forces of British, a land force and a sea force, or have two different factions. Either way it is historical that the British and the Americans both fought pirates.

 

I'm not as familiar with what pirates the British fought with off the top of my head, but I do know that during Thomas Jefferson's presidency there was a little know war with America and the Barbary pirates. In the end though, I think that it really depends on personal preference and what kind of story line your going with.

 

[zipsp7]

My teory is that blu and reds are on the same side (I think they are British): reds are normal soldiers and blu are high rank soldiers usually of marine. They have also the same uniform. The only incorrectness is that there are so few red in confront of blu, that should be the opposite, in proportion.
Reds can't be spanish because there are the related sets and minifigures.

However it's fantastic also play thinking they are British and French fight for the new world!

[Magical_Chicken]

I believe that their nationality left ambiguous on purpose.

Most western powers during the late 18th century and early 19th century used red or blue uniforms to some extent (with the exceptions of Austria and Russia).

Spoiler

To keep it simple I will mostly focus on the primary colour of line infantry as often engineers and marines will wear different uniforms.

Red:

• Britain
• Denmark
• Poland-Lithuania (most)
• Hanover

Blue:

• France (some before 1890s and most after)
• Netherlands (most)
• Sweden
• Spain (some)
• Portugal
• United States
• Prussia
• Bavaria
• Hesse
• Wuerttemberg

White:

• France (most before 1890s and some after)
• Spain (most)
• Austria
• Netherlands (some)
• Poland-Lithuania (some)
• Saxony

Green:

• Russia
• Most Jaegers

As for the flags I believe the Imperial Soldier's flag is based off the merchant flag of France

Spoiler

In use 1365–1792

  And the Imperial Guard's off the East India Company

Spoiler

In use 1600-1668

In use 1668-1801

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Magical_Chicken
grammar

[DonRamon1981]

XrrAs I love history and have hundreds books especially about that era, I would say it represents French and British. Even if the style of uniform is both very British. But the fleur de lis on the blue flag is a typical French sign and was long time part of a lot of French flags. Not British. That counts out the American who actually became famous to be called blue coats in the 19th century. British were red and called red coats since 1648. But there is a big problem to that American Theroy. The crown! America had never a king always a president since their independence. Also the fleur de lis which is an symbol by royalists. So I will do it for me to have to nations blue for French and Red for British. But lego had maybe both as British as they called blue coat gouvernour Broadside, a typical British name, and the red coat Admiral Woodhouse. Also typical British. That maybe indicates that lego always just thought about British in that Imperial stuff. 

But it's always how you play it so when my son's want the blue be American we do it that way too. 

[Kwatchi]

A quick google of Danish napoleonic era uniforms (red with blue frogging) and remembering where Lego originates, quickly solves the red coat as historic analogy mystery.  I realize most wish they’d represent Britain, but it’s clearly Denmark.

[DonRamon1981]

Danish makes no sense as 1. LEGO itself gave the gouvernour and admiral typical British names (Broadside and Woodhouse) and Imperial... the Danish never had an Colony Empire especially not in the Caribbean Area. And the red coats is British since 1648, they been called red coats for more than 3 centuries. 

But the strongest point about it was made by Lego itself giving them British Names. 

But you can play them how you want as I play my blue coats as french, or even American when my son's want it that way.

[DonRamon1981]

...Ah and Lego itself made the red coat British when Releasing London Escape, and other sets for Pirate of the Caribbean. LEGO took their red coats to represent London's/ British Army. 

I guess I can't read and it's Koppenhagen Escape and Gouvernour Jensen and Admiral Hansen. And the history I also read wrong as The Danish had the b8g empire with colonies ;-)

...ah and before I forgot. Even the Admirals Uniform look exactly like the real one from the famous Royal Navy Admirals along with their Hero Horatio Nelson. 

[DonRamon1981]

So it's official the the red coats represent the British by Lego itself with that sets like London Escape, but here is the fact that also the blue coats are British by Lego itself:

The comic, released with the first wave 1989 with two mini figures.

It's not only the name of the gouvernour, Broadside, but it's the place. He is the gouvernour of Port Royal, Jamaica, a then world wide known harbour for pirates tolerated by the British/English and ruled by England (from 1707 as Great Britain) as Jamaica was a British Colony until 1962.

So Lego just made British and later Spanish (Armada/Conquistadores) factions. 

But as I like to play them as different nations I like them as French, it's funny that many use the tricolore for the French ships. 

The era lego refers itself for the pirates is 1690 to 1720, the golden age of piracy in the Caribbean. The French lost all their Norhern American colonies to Britian in the 7 year war later, the French still had the white flag with the golden fleur de lis on it. The tricolore was not the French flag until the revolution.

And for those who think fleur de lis is just French: The English royal insignia are with fleur de lis too as it was a royal symbol not just a French one. ;-)

Edited October 25, 2018 by DonRamon1981
Corrected words

[Kwatchi]

On 10/21/2018 at 12:54 PM, DonRamon1981 said:

Danish makes no sense as 1. LEGO itself gave the gouvernour and admiral typical British names (Broadside and Woodhouse) and Imperial... the Danish never had an Colony Empire especially not in the Caribbean Area. And the red coats is British since 1648, they been called red coats for more than 3 centuries.

 

Danish Napoleonic Era Uniforms

Don't confuse "design" with "english speaker marketing".  Selling Danish soldiers in North America would have been near impossible, so they twisted the narrative into something that would resonate more (i.e. english sounding names).  But the design cues are clear as day; no point denying it.

[DonRamon1981]

41 minutes ago, Kwatchi said:

 

Danish Napoleonic Era Uniforms

Don't confuse "design" with "english speaker marketing".  Selling Danish soldiers in North America would have been near impossible, so they twisted the narrative into something that would resonate more (i.e. english sounding names).  But the design cues are clear as day; no point denying it.

You named it Napoleaonic Era 1798 to 1815.

Here are British uniforms by late 1690 and through the whole time 1720 while the golden era of pirates where lego put the theme timed in.

 long before the Danish copied it and other nations too by the way. 

They even look more similar to the lego ones than the Danish.

The Danish from that era look way different...

 

[DonRamon1981]

The British Red Coats look really like Lego Figures as real humans.

 

[Captain Fortune]

Basically, Lego took the 1770-1800 uniforms, and the shakos from 1800-1830. 

As a result, we have:

- Accurated officers according to late 18th century.

- Relatively accurated governors from late 18th and early 19th centuries.

- Not very accurated soldiers: regardind the redcoats, the open coat (with a visible white vest) and the shako, didn't meet at the same time. When they wore open coats, they wore tricorns or bicorns (see the Patriot). When they wore shakos, they used closed and short coats (see napoleonic stuff). Regarding the bluecoats, the french did wear open coats and shakos from 1803 (I think) so, that would be accurated.

After all, what Lego wanted is to have cool and recognizable soldiers and, damn it, they suceeded!

Edited December 11, 2018 by Captain Fortune

[Robin_IV]

On 12/11/2018 at 7:06 PM, Captain Fortune said:

After all, what Lego wanted is to have cool and recognizable soldiers and, damn it, they suceeded!

Yeah they did!

And I think they mixed the look of their minifig army on purpose. TLG is not a big fan of political and historical attribution. 

[CommanderJonny1]

Uniforms in general can be a complicated subject; the British had both red and blue uniforms during this period, both for officers and the regular soldier, however this is subject to a sort of caveat. The English/British, well, 'Redcoats' are of course red, however, this is only for the regular army. 'Royal' institutions wore blue; the Royal Navy wore blue uniforms, albeit usually only for officers, as the regular sailors wore mainly white. The Artillery Corps technically isn't (or at least wasn't) part of the army, as it was seen as a specialized role; it was considered at least officially separate, and as a Royal institution (the 'Royal Artillery'), it was granted the right to where blue uniforms. That's why you'll see paintings of guys in blue by cannons, surrounded by guys in red. The actual army isn't, and wasn't, a Royal institution (that's why it's always referred to as the 'British Army', and not the 'Royal Army'), and therefore isn't given the privilege of the color blue.

The original English/British army was created after the English Civil War(s) by the Parliamentarians in the form of the New Model Army; they chose red as the color of the new professional army's uniform as it was the cheapest color (bureaucracy at work!). When the King was returned to power, the army (and it's uniform) was kept. Now, there are a few minor exceptions of a sort to the uniform rule- and that's Royal Regiments. These are units in the army proper that (through some reason or another) are 'Royal' units. While they don't have blue uniforms, they are allowed to have blue facings, as well as a special cap badge. There is at least one army unit that does have actual blue uniforms, and that's the Royal Horse Guards (eventually amalgamated with the 1st Dragoons), and is part of the Household Cavalry (along with the Life Guards).

Edited March 10, 2019 by CommanderJonny1