TRAIN TECH Help, General Questions & Talk to the Staff

[dr_spock]

NiMH rechargeable batteries.  Recharge them as needed.

Multiple trains as in several trains at the same time?  Or two or more locomotives in the same train?

 

 

[Kirederf]

2 hours ago, dr_spock said:

NiMH rechargeable batteries.  Recharge them as needed.

Multiple trains as in several trains at the same time?  Or two or more locomotives in the same train?

 

 

Ha OK, is that really how everyone does it? I was thinking whether there was a Lego lithium ion battery pack chargeable by USB cable i didnt know about. I honestly didnt realise its just endless replacing of batteries to keep these things going. 

and on the multiple trains question. Both honestly... I was thinking two or more trains at the same time, but I can also imagine that if you start adding more carriages you might want stronger motors. But I havent gone beyond 4 at the moment and it seemed to work fine so far. So not sure if people really ever need 2 locomotives (apart from design, which can be quite cool)

side question: Do you use the standard delivered lego train engines (that are also used in the lego trains) to power them or do people also use lego techniq motors and customer designed powering system?

Thanks for your fast response!

[Duq]

There is a Lego rechargeable battery box. Used ones start around $100/ €100... https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=84599

BuWizz is a good alternative. Also not cheap, but it includes the controller.

Replacing batteries isn't great but battery powered trains have their advantages:

• Cheaper track
• More available motors
• Easy to run multiple trains

Have a look around this forum and these groups on Flickr: 

  

 

Once you get into more details locos, steam locos, tiny locos you'll want other motors than the standard train motor. You can use power functions/ powered up motors or even third party like Circuit Cubes.

[Stereo]

Hi, I've been collecting Lego for a while, but I just recently got a used copy of 60051-1 Passenger Train, first exposure to Lego Trains  I'm trying to get up to speed on practical use of Power Functions in MOCs, as a lot of the ones I've seen instructions for use the newer Powered Up.  Since PF uses IR I'm expecting it to basically need line of sight from the remote to the train, but how much leeway is there actually?  Does the whole dome need to be exposed above the train?  Will it work ok if it's inside the cabin with glass in the windows?

It came with 3 switches and about 32 each of the straight/curve/flex pieces, so I'm working with a small room sized layout, don't need all that much range.  I've been planning out an Inglenook setup at one side, so I'm also playing with some designs to decouple cars without reaching into the layout.  I found a few online that block the trucks and use the locomotive jerk to disconnect the magnets, maybe my drive wheels have slightly dry rubber but that doesn't really work for me.  So I'm playing with a dual-actuation mechanism like the recent Technic garbage truck, to put a couple bionicle teeth between the buffers and then spread them out.  I've got a working prototype, at least for the passenger cars, now I need to build a few freight cars and see what it makes of those. https://bricksafe.com/files/Stereog/decoupler/couplingteeth-1.jpg  (picture of it open left, then activated right, turning another 45 degrees pops them apart).  

The level crossing in 60051 is flat with the top of the tracks so I've been assuming it's generally safe to build tiles up that high, are there more specific guides on how much clearance to aim for, if I want to post the MOC and have it be useful to other people?  I have the teeth sticking up, but they're 5 studs away from the track, so they're safe for the passenger train even near curves.

[Feuer Zug]

On 2/1/2024 at 11:19 PM, Stereo said:

Hi, I've been collecting Lego for a while, but I just recently got a used copy of 60051-1 Passenger Train, first exposure to Lego Trains  I'm trying to get up to speed on practical use of Power Functions in MOCs, as a lot of the ones I've seen instructions for use the newer Powered Up.  Since PF uses IR I'm expecting it to basically need line of sight from the remote to the train, but how much leeway is there actually?  Does the whole dome need to be exposed above the train?  Will it work ok if it's inside the cabin with glass in the windows?

The level crossing in 60051 is flat with the top of the tracks so I've been assuming it's generally safe to build tiles up that high, are there more specific guides on how much clearance to aim for, if I want to post the MOC and have it be useful to other people?  I have the teeth sticking up, but they're 5 studs away from the track, so they're safe for the passenger train even near curves.

The IR system has some leeway. You can bounce the signal like a television remote. It does work better with the sensor dome completely exposed, but a single layer of plates covering it isn't going to ruin it.

You are correct about the top of the tracks as the safe to build level. Depending, you can get away with studs at that height, but tiles are safer. Track clearances can be tight depending. Sticking with regular 6-wide LEGO carriages without lengthening them, you should be fine. If you increase the length or width dimensions, curves can be interesting. Run tests.

[marcoschumacher]

Hi. I have a Lego Train set originally purchased in the 1970's in Western Europe for 220V electricity. I now live in the United States and am trying to see if it still works using the 110V local electricity. The model number of the 12V transformer is 710. It is a blue box with a red knob. Based on what I've seen in stores and on this site, the current Lego train sets have a different design, including for the power supply and transmission. 

- Does anyone know if there is a way to use a modern Lego train power supply with 1970's train tracks and engines?

- My fallback plan is to buy a general 220V-110V adapter and try to turn on the old 710 unit that way. Other ideas? 

Thanks a lot for any suggestions.

[Toastie]

Welcome to EB!

Google fails me to find a model 710 12V LEGO transformer - it finds 740, 741 ... but then others here may know better!

As far as I am concerned, any adjustable 12V DC power supply providing high enough amperage will do the trick. If you have a Voltmeter, I'd check the output voltage first.

On the other hand, when you have a 110V -> 220V adapter at hand, suitable for driving inductive loads(!) (a transformer is an inductive load and some older voltage converters don't like that, they were designed for driving resistive loads only, such as old incandescent light bulbs), that sounds also good to me.

Best regards,
Thorsten

 

[NanSue]

Hi 

Similar question I have a LEGO 4559 cargo train. 9v european purchase (1996) so has a 240v adapter and a uk plug. Now I live in Canada and can't seem to find any info to tell me what i need to purchase to use here. US made trains also seem to have been made as 12v not 9v.

Do I add a step up /down converter to the existing system or can I buy a 9v to 110v to replace the 9v to 240V

Nansue

[Duq]

Welcome to Eurobricks and welcome to the Lego train hobby!

Both US and Europe have 9V and 12V trains. If your train set has one of these:

Then what you need is one of these:

You should be able to find one with a Canadian plug. Just make sure the round plug is the right size.

[Andy Glascott]

I brought my collection of 9v and 12v trains over from Europe to the US and have run multiple controllers off a voltage converter with no problems. 

[TeddytheSpoon]

Hi all. I've got a more general (and potentially daft) question about dimensioning of train wheels.

I'm thinking of what to build next, and in most cases the wheels on the trains I'm looking at have nominal diameters of 950mm (or thereabouts). At the 1:64 scale I want, that works out to about 14.8mm (or, again, thereabouts). Would this diameter be the outermost wheel diameter, in which case the small LEGO train wheel would be the closest match? Or is it the flange diameter, so that the Big Ben XS wheels might be better?

I've been using the LEGO wheel so far, which works OK. But I built a coach a few months ago, and although the wheel size looks correct in isolation, when it's on rails, the body looks too close to the track. I think this is because the flange is so much smaller relative to the rest of the wheel. Once I raise it up by a plate, the offset to the rails looks correct, but the height is now technically wrong (and looks off when it's hooked up to a loco, which also uses the same wheels for now). I suspect it might come down to personal preference, but I'd be interested in how others approach this problem!

Edited March 3 by TeddytheSpoon

[Duq]

I'm curious to see what you're building. Most Lego train builders use "minifig scale" which of course isn't an exact scale but is generally between 1:40 and 1:45. This makes train 7-8 studs wide and is what's known as "L-gauge". Some builders use the normal Lego track as narrow gauge which makes the trains 10 wide or bigger. At these scales the flanges of Lego train wheels are already exagerated.

You're using 1:64 which will make your trains 4-5 studs wide. That means the flanges will look even more exagerated than in "normal" L-gauge.

Using Lego for such small scale trains will be a challenge that comes with many compromises. At the end of the day, go with what looks good to you. That's the most important thing.

[TeddytheSpoon]

On 3/4/2024 at 9:32 PM, Duq said:

I'm curious to see what you're building. Most Lego train builders use "minifig scale" which of course isn't an exact scale but is generally between 1:40 and 1:45. This makes train 7-8 studs wide and is what's known as "L-gauge". Some builders use the normal Lego track as narrow gauge which makes the trains 10 wide or bigger. At these scales the flanges of Lego train wheels are already exagerated.

You're using 1:64 which will make your trains 4-5 studs wide. That means the flanges will look even more exagerated than in "normal" L-gauge.

Using Lego for such small scale trains will be a challenge that comes with many compromises. At the end of the day, go with what looks good to you. That's the most important thing.

Yes, most of the time they end up somewhere around 5.5 studs wide. I've got a thread for it here, which I've just updated with pictures of this troublesome coach:

In the end I think I'll stick with the extra plate and just judge it 'by eye'. It occurred to me that the rails will also be quite exaggerated at this scale, and since I can't control the size of those or the wheels, I might as well focus on making everything else look right!

 

[Stereo]

I suppose it's not 100% a Trains question, but does the 60656 Power Functions wire with light gray end work in both directions?  Like connect a 9V source (Train regulator etc. for wall power) to PF IR receiver & motors/lights, and also PF IR receiver back to 9V motors?  I believe due to the sounds that PF controls motor speed with PWM, whereas 9V uses lower voltage, so how does that translate across?

 

Mostly on my mind cause I have an old 4760 battery box that I notice is 1 2/3 bricks shorter than a PF hub, and is available in black/white/red/yellow, so potential to integrate into a smaller space, even with the extra wire.

[JHS_NL]

I can only tell you that it works for the monorail engine. I used it to connect the motor to a IR receiver so I could use it with the remote. I am not sure if it works the other way around but my instinct says it should.

[Toastie]

On 5/6/2024 at 5:27 PM, Stereo said:

Like connect a 9V source (Train regulator etc. for wall power) to PF IR receiver & motors/lights,

I'm afraid, it does not work in this direction without some cutting wires and soldering. The other way around (from PF battery box or from PF receiver to 9V motor/light).

The PF system uses 4 wires; the outer two are permanent +9V and GND as power supply for the PF receiver, the inner wires are supposed to connect to PF motor and lights. When you open up a PF receiver, you will find out that on the PF cable attached to the PF receiver, only the outer cables are used, the inner cables are cut. The PF receiver then generates the PWM signal from the 9V supply and put these on the two inner wires of its PF terminals. And here you will also find the 9V and GND.

(PF motors and the PF light have only the inner wires connected inside the motor housing)

The cable you are referencing connects the 2 inner wires of the PF terminal to the 9V terminal. When you attach the 9V terminal to a 9V battery box or the train regulator output, and the PF terminal to a PF receiver supply cable, nothing happens, as the now powered two inner wires are not connecting within the receiver.

When you google "lego pf wiring" you will find many links to YT videos and also to EB forum posts on that issue. @BatteryPoweredBricks has made excellent tutorials in this regard. Also Philo's homepage (https://www.philohome.com/pf/pf.htm) explains all you want to know about PF - and so much more!

Best regards,
Thorsten

[Stereo]

46 minutes ago, Toastie said:

The cable you are referencing connects the 2 inner wires of the PF terminal to the 9V terminal. When you attach the 9V terminal to a 9V battery box or the train regulator output, and the PF terminal to a PF receiver supply cable, nothing happens, as the now powered two inner wires are not connecting within the receiver.

Unfortunate, I guess the one point here that does work is a 9V source can power a PF motor directly, so it can be used for GBC type installations that run at constant speed.  Or use RCX etc. to control them.

Edited May 7 by Stereo

[Toastie]

2 hours ago, Stereo said:

Unfortunate, I guess the one point here that does work is a 9V source can power a PF motor directly, so it can be used for GBC type installations that run at constant speed.  Or use RCX etc. to control them.

That is true, but once again, you can easily make your own 9V -> PF receiver power cable! I have done that multiple times.

Best,
Thorsten

[zephyr1934]

1 hour ago, Toastie said:

That is true, but once again, you can easily make your own 9V -> PF receiver power cable! I have done that multiple times.

Someone long ago came up with a sequence of elements such that you COULD cross the wires in the PF system. I think it used a AA battery box without batteries. The battery box shorted the outer and inner wires on the PF cables. The net result was almost Rube Goldberg but it was pure and it worked.

[Toastie]

48 minutes ago, zephyr1934 said:

I think it used a AA battery box without batteries.

Yeap, that works. When I was still living in pure-LEGO-land, that was the thing to do. On models/layouts providing that space. The moment you go 6-8 wide mobile, it usually won't work that easily anymore. For GBCs and other ground based MOCs, it may very well be the appropriate solution.

Best,
Thorsten 

[Ropefish]

Anyone have experience running metal gears in their locomotives? It is something I have under consideration 

[supertruper1988]

2 hours ago, Ropefish said:

Anyone have experience running metal gears in their locomotives? It is something I have under consideration 

For what reason? Everything is a trade off. If you have metal gears, then are you prepared to also have metal axles? what about replacing motors when the drivetrain gets stalled and instead of a part breaking it just overloads the motor? What about metal wheels or side rods? Then at what point is it just a lego shaped brass model? 

In my mind its a rabbit trail and I ask all these questions mostly in jest. 

To answer your question about do I use them? No and I dont see a need to because I have had a drive train stall and it broke one of the half thick 12 tooth bevel gears. I was happy to only replace that instead of having to tear apart the entire model to replace the motor. 

[Duq]

9 hours ago, Ropefish said:

Anyone have experience running metal gears in their locomotives? It is something I have under consideration 

I've never considered it to be honest. There is some wear on plastic parts but it's not enough for me to worry about. If it's strength then as @supertruper1988 suggested you'll keep chasing the weakest link.

I do however use Lego axles in brass tubes on some trains and metal bearings on others. For the rolling resistance that makes a big difference.

[Ropefish]

7 hours ago, supertruper1988 said:

For what reason? Everything is a trade off. If you have metal gears, then are you prepared to also have metal axles? what about replacing motors when the drivetrain gets stalled and instead of a part breaking it just overloads the motor? What about metal wheels or side rods? Then at what point is it just a lego shaped brass model? 

In my mind its a rabbit trail and I ask all these questions mostly in jest. 

To answer your question about do I use them? No and I dont see a need to because I have had a drive train stall and it broke one of the half thick 12 tooth bevel gears. I was happy to only replace that instead of having to tear apart the entire model to replace the motor. 

i see, the idea was to alleviate long term issues but i guess that'd mean it'd be a bigger one when it happens.
 

 

23 minutes ago, Duq said:

I've never considered it to be honest. There is some wear on plastic parts but it's not enough for me to worry about. If it's strength then as @supertruper1988 suggested you'll keep chasing the weakest link.

I do however use Lego axles in brass tubes on some trains and metal bearings on others. For the rolling resistance that makes a big difference.

oh! id love to see that, my AC-9 is rather heavy, and ive noted that the axles do slowly wear down into their axle holders. do you drill a hole the size of the brass tube?

[Duq]

Download issue 1 of Railbricks here: https://brickmodelrailroader.com/index.php/download-railbricks/railbricks-issue-1/

Was that 17 years ago? Damn, time flies...

On page 22 you'll find an article by Cale Leiphart describing how it's done.

And there's a lot more to read in those old magazines ;-)