Are forums still relevant when compared to comments?

[astral brick]

Paraphrasing, this question reminds me the debates held years ago on usenet, about the the decline of newgroups in favour of forums. Nevertheless I can’t help thinking about it, considering that the most interesting analyses I have recently read are comments to articles or news in websites. This concerns various topics, including Lego obviously.

I wonder what the reasons are, apparently forums can’t keep up with the endless news flow, been based on the time and the commitment that their users choose to dedicate to their passion. And probably passion is the key in this matter, a site may be more active or more updated – especially if it receives exclusive previews or products, that is the case of the most important Lego blogs – but the limit between being part of the fandom and making a profit is a very thin line.

The corollary is clear, if the (semi)professional aspect is involved, a comment moderator will have the tendency to act with more strictness, limiting controversial opinions. And speaking of conformism, commenters will be tempted to express basic or demagogic considerations, in order not to be moderated or to receive more “likes”, in a vicious self-feeding mechanism. Finally, commenters are inclined to avoid replying to others’ comments, a solipsistic attitude which causes an impoverishment of the discussion.

The lesson of what occurred to newsgroups was not learnt, history repeats itself.

[Peppermint_M]

2 hours ago, astral brick said:

(semi)professional

Everyone here is a volunteer. We spend our own time trying to run the forum and keep it interesting and fair for all members.

I would say what is causing a decline in forums are the two issues of younger internet users not interested in the forum format and a societal increase in offended/defensive discourse.

Teens and young adults don't generally engage with the forum style. They have moved to different types of platform.

Then, there is a great increase in people getting offended if you do not agree with their opinions. Any "challenge" to their opinion is an attack. It makes discussion difficult at best, argumentative nonsense at the worst.

Thus, forums slowly fall out of favour.

[The Brick Boss]

50 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

Then, there is a great increase in people getting offended if you do not agree with their opinions. Any "challenge" to their opinion is an attack. It makes discussion difficult at best, argumentative nonsense at the worst.

With all due respect to you and all other authority figures on this forum......People take it offensively because most of the time - it's not a mere disagreement. I've experienced it a lot where I'm told in a polite or smart alec way to "zip it and be thankful Lego gives you anything". That also makes discussions difficult. Eurobricks is unique in this manner as I'm not attacked for my criticisms anywhere else but here. 

Most of the time, those "challenges" shouldn't even be done when you're stating an opinion. It's not like we're telling you "That's how it is!" without backing it up with fact. We are simply speaking from our point of view. I don't speak for anyone else. 

Then you stand up for yourself, but you're the one getting banned? Nit fair at all. 

Edited March 16, 2020 by Brandon Pea

[Peppermint_M]

This is a discussion forum. If you don't want any kind of response to your posts (opinions or otherwise) then it is best not to post at all.

If people use truly insulting language like you mentioned above, report it. Then it will be dealt with appropriately. If you are reading a reply to your post and interpret it as an insult, well, that is the issue I highlighted in my post.

[KotZ]

28 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

Everyone here is a volunteer. We spend our own time trying to run the forum and keep it interesting and fair for all members.

I would say what is causing a decline in forums are the two issues of younger internet users not interested in the forum format and a societal increase in offended/defensive discourse.

Teens and young adults don't generally engage with the forum style. They have moved to different types of platform.

Then, there is a great increase in people getting offended if you do not agree with their opinions. Any "challenge" to their opinion is an attack. It makes discussion difficult at best, argumentative nonsense at the worst.

Thus, forums slowly fall out of favour.

It's why I'm starting to get annoyed with social media and places like reddit. Not every thing has to be a big discussion, but comments on social media are becoming more and more hostile, annoying, basic, etc. Sure, some comments on there are well thought out, but it's just, I don't know, bleh. Everyone is offended/defensive now to the slightest percieved insult, which might not be an insult at all. At risk of sounding old (I'm a millenial, I'm not old), people just want instant gratification now, and stupid, easy comments get them that idea of participating without really participating, or if you don't get the answer you want or like, you call get nasty.

The reason I stick with EB is because there's generally good conversation on here.

[Peppermint_M]

Just now, GREG998 said:

In your point of view, does calling someone a "troll" or "pathetic" an insult or not? In my maternal language, they are. perhaps it has less impact in English but it has in other languages.

It depends on the context.

If you are making incendiary posts for the sake of causing controversy, you are being a troll by definition. 

If people find your posting style aggressive, they might react in kind.

[KotZ]

Just now, GREG998 said:

People should only write what they could say in real life, looking in the eyes the people they chat with.

That's never going to be possible. And a lot of people do do that, I'm sure. Some people come across more aggressive than others, because that's just their personality.

[Peppermint_M]

3 minutes ago, GREG998 said:

Those unable to understand it can go back to play with their weewee in the sandbox.

But

Just now, GREG998 said:

People should only write what they could say in real life, looking in the eyes the people they chat with.

Okay then.

[Peppermint_M]

There is no single owner and no single entity in charge of the forum so it is not for sale in the way you seem to think it should be.

Believe me, I would say the exact things face to face as I post on the forum. Which is why I strive to maintain civility.

[Mandalorianknight]

3 minutes ago, GREG998 said:

Ok, there are several owners. But there is still only ONE Eurobricks. I just want to know the price it would be (because it has a value and a price). If too expensive, i skip the turn. If it's ok and is it for sale, i buy. Simple.

I don't think this is the type of thing you buy, based on how they seem to be volunteers.

[Mandalorianknight]

Just now, GREG998 said:

If a thing has an owner or owners, individuals or moral entities, it can be bought.

 

12 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

There is no single owner and no single entity in charge of the forum so it is not for sale in the way you seem to think it should be.

I think @Peppermint_M's comment illustrates my point better than I seem to be able too. They do not seem to want to sell this forum

[TeriXeri]

Comments get lost easily as articles get old, Forums are more organized for longer periods of time.

Just to compare Eurobricks forums to Brickset articles , articles are easily found for maybe a week at most if popular, forum topics go 5-10 year back on here and aren't buried into a single blog-post type comment section.

[KotZ]

18 minutes ago, GREG998 said:

Ok, there are several owners. But there is still only ONE Eurobricks. I just want to know the price it would be (because it has a value and a price). If too expensive, i skip the turn. If it's ok and is it for sale, i buy. Simple.

I think a big reason your comment about purchasing the forum in the other thread was thought trolling is because it happened in a thread where people already were wondering if someone was trolling.

And purchasing EB would probably be detrimental to the site. Many websites and services, especially smaller or niche ones, have a history of irrefutable change when bought. Brickfilms is the first that came to my mind. That site died after it was purchased by TaaB. Bricklink is another, although the jury is still out on that one.

[tfcrafter]

4 hours ago, GREG998 said:

You put the right diagnosis. "Nova sed non nova".

Only a "Tabula Rasa" operation could improve things on forums with a clear guideline for moderators. Too often, on a lot of forums, people are given the title of moderator and think it gives them the right to chop heads, to enforce their own point of view in privileging people with the same mindset. It would be like entitle someone "policeman" without any formation.

Right, I agree, people should be able to say what they want without fearing retributions from moderators or staff...

1 hour ago, GREG998 said:

Ohhh man if you knew what i could say and do in real life....... Buying a place i feel that needs to be fixed is part of it.

...HUH?

 

1 hour ago, GREG998 said:

The "Trolism" accusation here is a true PLAGUE.

For exemple, yesterday, a topic turned wrong cause the OP was called troll adn "pathetic" because of his opinions. Then i have been accsued of trolism because i took side with the OP. Whatever you can say, you are sent "troll" to the face by immature people, whatever is their biological age.

In the post you were referring to, the OP was not called "pathetic," rather, a "fabricated issue" was called pathetic. Big difference.

Edited March 16, 2020 by tfcrafter

[KotZ]

Just now, tfcrafter said:

Right, I agree, people should be able to say what they want without fearing retributions from moderators or staff...

...HUH?

Which EB does fairly well, mods don't have powertrips, everyone is reasonable and courteous. They give warnings, etc.

[tfcrafter]

Just now, KotZ said:

Which EB does fairly well, mods don't have powertrips, everyone is reasonable and courteous. They give warnings, etc.

Agreed, it's pretty fair, banning is rarely the first step moderators take (unless it's things like bot/spam accounts which is perfectly reasonable).

[OfficialReegz]

Who is this Greg and why is he being a pathetic troll. Seems he’s stirring things up for a reaction here...

[Mandalorianknight]

 

2 minutes ago, KotZ said:

Which EB does fairly well, mods don't have powertrips, everyone is reasonable and courteous. They give warnings, etc.

Yes, the mods here don't needlessly ban and are pretty kind when people are out of line

Just now, OfficialReegz said:

Who is this Greg and why is he being a pathetic troll. Seems he’s stirring things up for a reaction here...

He got pretty upset over the reaction of a few people over someone who said the lego helmets are bad because they're not MOC quality. (given, like 20 people jumped on the guy, but still), so he's claiming he'll buy the website.

[OfficialReegz]

Just now, Mandalorianknight said:

 

Yes, the mods here don't needlessly ban and are pretty kind when people are out of line

He got pretty upset over the reaction of a few people over someone who said the lego helmets are bad because they're not MOC quality. (given, like 20 people jumped on the guy, but still), so he's claiming he'll buy the website.

Ahhh that’s why he got his frilly girl pants in a twist is it...

[Mylenium]

3 hours ago, astral brick said:

I wonder what the reasons are

Well, presumably it's down to younger generations having the attention span of a mouse these days and the mere concept of a structured debate being foreign to most people to begin with. That and the fact that users expect everything to have an immediate answer these days. I get that a lot on forums where I'm helping out with technical issues for computer stuff. Everything that doesn't yield an answer in five minutes is taken as ignoring someone and if you tell them that they simply bought a shitty machine they're even more offended.

Specifically to LEGO one has to face the facts - with the company pumping out so many sets, minifigures and whatnot there is little room for deep discussions without entering fan/ fanboy vs. more critical views territory. It's an inherent issue with a commercial hobby driven by a single, quasi-monopolistic vendor can only up being a wank contest of who does a review the fastest and gets the most views, even more so since there is a quadrizillion LEGO blogs, YouTube channels and so on. A forum in the traditional sense can only lose this game.

Personally I value some longer exchanges even if they end up being heated debates and I have the bad habit of tuning out after a while when there's too much TL;DR or personal insults are thrown around, but I guess you can't blame the younglings for being defined by their social media usage and not coming here. It's no longer 1994, after all.

4 hours ago, astral brick said:

The corollary is clear

I don't really agree with your statements on "conformism" and whatnot. That's ultimately the point: A blog is a blog and its comments are meant to be forgotten and forgettable. It's more that this (and social media and YouTube and, and, and...) have evolved/ devolved into universal opinion platforms and their commercialization gives the ma lot of pulling power.

And also let me be clear: Most blogs (and forums and social media) are quite liberal in the sense that they adopt a laissez-faire attitude in terms of the underlying legalities or consciously chose to ignore them. That is until shit hits the fan and they get a cease & desist or whatever. If one were to really be pickish about bit, we'd all live in a moderator dictatorship. A few posts getting culled or locked every now and then to me is no indication of anything.

Mylenium

[Retro]

I think unfortunately places like Eurobricks are going to slowly fade away. Apart from a few core areas, I see comments and intelligent conversation are dying out. Which is a pity, because it has always been one of the friendliest places on the web.

On the related topic, I have to say I agreed with the reaction to the poster who said they hated the brick helmets. I think it was a response to the endless negativity. Sort of the straw that broke the camel's back. If I like Lego, or Bach or Pink Floyd, I don't want to log on to a forum and see endless criticism of my hobby. Even if a Lego set is not spectacularly brilliant, I don't personally want to see it torn to shreds. I'd prefer people to find the positives in it within reason...

[Grover]

I never read comments on articles.  I am not on instgram, tik tok, facebook and whatever other social media junk is out there.  I am happy to read forums, as they are accessible via the web and the phone.  I am here to get feedback and conversations on my builds, not generally discuss a lot things with others (although here I am doing just that...!).  There may be less general discussion, but I don't see another great way to get decent feedback on builds.  I certainly get less feedback on Flickr than I do on these forums, probably 10x less.

[MAB]

5 hours ago, astral brick said:

 

I wonder what the reasons are, apparently forums can’t keep up with the endless news flow, been based on the time and the commitment that their users choose to dedicate to their passion.

Why can't forums keep up with news flow? EB keeps up with news flow perfectly well, at the speed the users post and discuss "legal" news.

50 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said:

He got pretty upset over the reaction of a few people over someone who said the lego helmets are bad because they're not MOC quality. (given, like 20 people jumped on the guy, but still), so he's claiming he'll buy the website.

I cannot see that 20 people jumped on him.

Those helmets are not MOC quality. But then very few sets are MOC quality. And that is theme independent. Huge MOC quality sets are unlikely to sell in enough numbers to be worthwhile.

I think it is highly unlikely that LEGO would release 1:1 helmets mainly because of cost but partly because people would try to wear them and injure themselves.

[Toastie]

6 minutes ago, Grover said:

I am not on instgram, tik tok, facebook and whatever other social media junk is out there.  I am happy to read forums, as they are accessible via the web and the phone.

I completely with you. Well, I don't even have a (smart) phone. Mine is dumb. SMS is max. Reason: I like asynchronous replies or posting. My laptop is quite the machine but that one is not with me wen I am walking the woods.

 

9 minutes ago, Grover said:

but I don't see another great way to get decent feedback on builds

100% agreed.

36 minutes ago, Retro said:

it has always been one of the friendliest places on the web

And still is in my opinion. I briefly looked into other places, saw all that yelling and since then find it funny and rewarding to have the Big Brother filter thingy of EB not catching unhealthy words like "sh*t".

45 minutes ago, Mylenium said:

Personally I value some longer exchanges even if they end up being heated debates

Exactly. Plus: Chances are that someone will try to ground the whole thing after the heat to high up.

And lastly: How much or many is a quadrizillion? That is a lot, right? As in sh*tload? Or even more?

I love this place. And will continue to do so.

All the best
Thorsten

[leafan]

39 minutes ago, GREG998 said:

Coming back to the topic, that is "the forum" concept. Yes, it can be bought. It has a COST and a VALUE. The COST is the running cost (hosting, domain name). It's not free. Let's say it costs 500 euros/dollars. THIS is the cost. The VALUE is what the Owner and/or the Buyer estimate in a context of a transaction: 1000, 5000, 20000....who knows?

The legit OWNER is the one who pay the bills (Domain, Hosting). So, who is he? Does anybody knows who pay the bill?

The value of Eurobricks lies in it's users and what they bring to the table. You cannot buy that. If they leave, then so does any value.

3 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

Everyone here is a volunteer. We spend our own time trying to run the forum and keep it interesting and fair for all members.

Thanks for all you (and the other mods) do on these forums.

I know we've had a few run ins in the past but reading some of these messages, I wonder why you do it at all and can't help but be glad you do.