Control+ General Discussion

[Jim]

I have been looking for the General Control+ Discussion topic, but I didn't find one. So let's start one.

Has there been any news on custom profiles and reversing the polarity of the motors in the official Control+ app?

What is currently my best bet to achieve that? Using the SBrick profile creator? Buwizz?

[Appie]

Just now, Jim said:

Has there been any news on custom profiles and reversing the polarity of the motors in the official Control+ app?

Afaik, Lego has no plans to do any of this in the Control+ app, instead they want the PoweredUp app to be the all-in-one go-to place for custom stuff, from boost, trains to the stuff in Technic sets..

[Jim]

PoweredUp is fine by me. 

Has there been any news on custom profiles and reversing the polarity of the motors in the official PoweredUp app?  

[imurvai]

1 hour ago, Jim said:

PoweredUp is fine by me. 

Has there been any news on custom profiles and reversing the polarity of the motors in the official PoweredUp app?  

@kbalage has created a great documentation on the PUP app here

Reversing the polarity is possible by using a multiplicator with -1. 

[Jim]

Great. Thanks! I was/am hoping for an SBrick (or Control+) like experience, but at the moment other solutions are welcome too.

 

[kbalage]

I'm afraid you won't find anything official to create a custom interface similar to the ones available in Control+. Besides the code block guide I created two sample customizable controllers, one for cars and one for trains. You can have a look at the code and adjust it to your needs, unfortunately at the moment we're stuck with the two controller interfaces in the PU app which is far from ideal because the one with the joystick does not even work properly.

Unless you would like to do some coding besides the basic controls I still strongly suggest to stick to BrickController 2 :) 

[Jim]

What kind of options are there to communicate with the Control+ hub myself? I have seen people being able to control the Control+ models without the official app. Do they use your method or is there another way to connect to the device and send commands?

 

[kbalage]

I think most of the people use two apps - BrickController2 or BuWizz. The main difference between the two is the need of a game controller for BC2 and the lack of proper return to center servo support in the BuWizz app. The BuWizz app can only connect to the Technic hub so no support for the AAA hub either. Since I control mostly cars and I prefer physical controls BC2 is the choice for me :) 

Besides these you can use the PU app with the code blocks as I mentioned before but that requires coding skills and does not give you a flexible interface. On the plus side you can control all 3 hub types with that and now you can connect up to 4 hubs simultaneously. There're also other apps like Controlz, I did not have time yet to try it.

[Jim]

I see where this is going.....nowhere.

I was busy making the 42039 chassis Control+ compatible, but it turns out the be challenging. I don't mind using third party stuff, but it's very disappointing that TLG doesn't support MOCing right from the beginning. What's the use of having a bunch of Control+ units, without being able to use them for other stuff then the models they came with.

Obviously, I can use the current profiles, but I will need to mimic the behavior very carefully. My setup required one of the motors to be driven in opposite direction. Unfortunately, I need to come up with a different setup, or use good old PF. 

[kbalage]

They sort of support MOCing in the Powered Up app, but it requires an awful lot of coding to achieve a similar result that the stock Control+ profiles have for the 42099 or 42109, especially for a decent return to center steering.

I think the fundamental mistake TLG made was building the whole Powered Up customization concept on the Boost code blocks. Currently there's no chance anyone can do anything useful without a decent coding knowledge, and despite the high number of blocks they don't really offer simple solutions for the most frequent things people try to do with a motorized LEGO set.

[suffocation]

On quite a different note, the Control+ hub seems to manage multiple motors under load far better than the Power Functions battery box/IR receiver combo. My nephew had this setup (ca. 3 kg) rolling around on the gravel all afternoon and the motors never seemed to struggle.

Edit: I was running the BuWizz app, which may have played into the swimmingly smooth performance.

Edited March 4, 2020 by suffocation

[Gimmick]

1 hour ago, Jim said:

I was busy making the 42039 chassis Control+ compatible, but it turns out the be challenging. I don't mind using third party stuff, but it's very disappointing that TLG doesn't support MOCing right from the beginning. What's the use of having a bunch of Control+ units, without being able to use them for other stuff then the models they came with.

Obviously, I can use the current profiles, but I will need to mimic the behavior very carefully. My setup required one of the motors to be driven in opposite direction. Unfortunately, I need to come up with a different setup, or use good old PF. 

For typical Buwizz-like touch interface, but with a bit more options (stepper mode for example) give Controlz a try.

You can change the direction of rotation for each port.

[Jim]

On 3/4/2020 at 4:10 PM, kbalage said:

I think most of the people use two apps - BrickController2 or BuWizz.

I have found the BrickController2 topic. That looks like something I could use.

[allanp]

This is something I could use  . I still wonder if we'll get anything like this from Lego, either in the powered up app or the control+ app.

Originally posted in a different topic:

I quickly threw this fake image together is MS paint 

Looks rough but you get the idea. I think something like this would be much better and easier than the code block approach (probably wouldn't need documentation with some playing around) and allow for really simple to really complex setups. For example, lets say I want to have three pneumatic valves, each with their own servos that move 45 degrees either side of centre (to match the range of motion of the valve) and I also want a forth motor to automatically run (for a compressor) any time any of the servos are not in the centre position.

Select edit at the top and add your desired controllers to the screen.

Select edit > edit controller > select the controller you want to use to control the first servo > hub > 1 > Port > 1 > device > servo > calibration > auto > Range of motion > 1/8 > select equal > done

Repeat 2 more times for servos 2 and 3, selecting ports 2 and 3 for each servo.

Now to add the automatic compressor to the 3 controllers for the 3 servos open up each of the 3 controllers in turn and select:

add device > hub > 1 > port > 4 > device > motor > non proportional > 100% power > always clockwise > done.

And there you are, a 3 channel pneumatic control setup with automated compressor done in a couple of minutes. 

In the image above, in the window where it asks for "motor", "light" or "servo" I guess I could have added a forth option for "sensor", and I should have added another window after that where you select the actual device that plugged in (such as L motor, XL motor or whatever). But this is simply an idea of what I'd like to see from Lego.

You may also notice there is an option for "ext controller" which is where you would be able to select from a list of third party physical controllers. You could then assign each of the apps virtual controllers to each of the physical controllers.

There are of course many more options you could add to what's seen here, such as ramp up/down times for motors and so on. Adding a ramp up/down time of a second or 2 to superstructure rotation would really give the model a sense of weight (and help to remove jerky rotation) for example. For a helicopter you could a ramp up/down time of 10 seconds or more if you wanted to.

I think it all fits on a smartphone screen rather well. Hobby grade RC remote controllers give you similar amounts of options on a tiny LCD screen so this shouldn't be a problem to use up the much bigger smartphone screen to make it easier for the target audience. It's much easier than the code blocks we have now anyway 

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by allanp

[kbalage]

The Powered Up app received an update with the following new features (officially):

• We are introducing LPF1 support! Yes, you are now able to use your old Power Functions hardware with the Powered Up app. It is a bit techy, but we’re sure you’ll figure it out. Find more info on our website.
• There’s more. We’re also introducing Handset support. You can now connect the handset remote and reprogram it while connected to the app.
• Sound blocks now work with numeric input starting at zero.

Obviously the most exciting one is the Power Functions support, but the handset support is also very handy. Unfortunately both of them requires a lot of coding, the PF control also requires the PU color and distance sensor and some knowledge of the PF IR protocol... you can see the details in my video:

 

 

[Gimmick]

1 hour ago, kbalage said:

The Powered Up app received an update with the following new features (officially):

• We are introducing LPF1 support! Yes, you are now able to use your old Power Functions hardware with the Powered Up app. It is a bit techy, but we’re sure you’ll figure it out. Find more info on our website.
• There’s more. We’re also introducing Handset support. You can now connect the handset remote and reprogram it while connected to the app.
• Sound blocks now work with numeric input starting at zero.

Obviously the most exciting one is the Power Functions support, but the handset support is also very handy. Unfortunately both of them requires a lot of coding, the PF control also requires the PU color and distance sensor and some knowledge of the PF IR protocol... you can see the details in my video:

Thumbs up for the video.

So since the remote does only send a signal if a button is pressed, you can create a simple digital remote control?

Loop over the remote input: 0 = stop, 1 = 100% speed, -1 = -100% speed. And for stearing we can basically use your "self calibrating" template.

And the red stop-button can theoretically be used for turning lights on/off or rotating through different ports on the hub.

Is there an extra output signal if you rotate the button on the controller?

[kbalage]

@Gimmick you can use the button presses for anything as an input. I will test the steering, not sure yet if it is more convenient to have only full left / full right or the steering should be somewhat slower so you can turn the wheels to a lower angle with a short press. 

Rotating the remote does not send anything since that position has no electronics. Interestingly if you use the remote input block with the data operators then the green button appears as well as a possible value, but when you press it it does not seems to be picked up. Maybe it is reserved for a future upgrade.

[Gimmick]

24 minutes ago, kbalage said:

@Gimmick you can use the button presses for anything as an input. I will test the steering, not sure yet if it is more convenient to have only full left / full right or the steering should be somewhat slower so you can turn the wheels to a lower angle with a short press. 

Rotating the remote does not send anything since that position has no electronics. Interestingly if you use the remote input block with the data operators then the green button appears as well as a possible value, but when you press it it does not seems to be picked up. Maybe it is reserved for a future upgrade.

I didn't mean the rotation of the controller, but the rotation of the thing where the buttons are placed on. - no idea how to discribe or call it :D //Edit Or did you mean the same? x)

I currently don't see a solution for smooth and direct steering. Theoretically you can build a step wise speed/steering and full on/off and switch with the red button :D

Edited March 21, 2020 by Gimmick

[kbalage]

1 hour ago, Gimmick said:

I didn't mean the rotation of the controller, but the rotation of the thing where the buttons are placed on. - no idea how to discribe or call it :D //Edit Or did you mean the same? x)

Yes I was thinking about the same thing :) The rotating part is only there to help you to align the buttons.

[doug72]

Help Please:-

After successfully built the 42100 - 9800 Excavator and setting up the Control + and testing all the various movements, I am struggling with assembling the correct blocks to demonstrate all the movements.

Due problem with iPad home button I have to switch off the hubs by closing Bluetooth.

When you use the demo blocks for 5 deg & 20 deg the bucket is down on the ground, is this the starting point ?
After all the moments have been completed for a digging / swing round / dump is there a block to return back to the starting point ?

Can anyone provide a list for the required order of the program blocks to achieve a full cycle of movements ?

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Doug72

[doug72]

My fears about this model have come true, an excellent build experience but let down by not enough information on how to program it.

Would really appreciate if anyone could post a a suitable basic progarm.

Attempts at setting up a program to run the excavator have now failed after many attempts at devising one, having depleted the batteries.

Unlikely to be able to get new ones for awhile as shops closed during CV19 lock down.

I have a big question:
What is the correct starting point for the program and what position should the boom, dipper arm & bucket be in at the start of a program ?

There should have been a return to home position icon. If there is one I can’t find.

Really disappointed that Lego did not include a FULL sample program (not just two steps) to demonstrate the movements required for the whole dig & dump cycle.

Model is destined to be either a static display, doubtful due lack of space to display it, convert it to PF or break it  down for spare parts and maybe sell all the C+ hubs & motors.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Doug72

[kbalage]

I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve. There are 2 way to program the movement, one is to use the code blocks, the other is to record a set of movements. If I recall correctly then the code blocks have movement commands relative to the current position, so if you tell it to turn 5 degrees then it'll turn the arm relative to the start position. The recorded movement "script" however will move the boom/arm/bucket first to the start position of the recorded session and initiate the sequence from there.

I'll have the set assembled again in a few days and I'll be able to help if you provide some details.

[doug72]

Just now, kbalage said:

I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve. There are 2 way to program the movement, one is to use the code blocks, the other is to record a set of movements. If I recall correctly then the code blocks have movement commands relative to the current position, so if you tell it to turn 5 degrees then it'll turn the arm relative to the start position. The recorded movement "script" however will move the boom/arm/bucket first to the start position of the recorded session and initiate the sequence from there.

I'll have the set assembled again in a few days and I'll be able to help if you provide some details.

Thanks for your reply.
I have been trying to program using the code blocks for each movement.
Re Script movement, you do the movements first using the control panel or the alterantive control using the arm diagram and then you record what the movements you have just done, is that correct.

Lego should have provided a more writen information.

In any event I am stuck until I get fresh batteries.

[doug72]

Finally some success :-

Found how to record the movements made when using the controls and then save them .

Then found I have to click & drag the “saved program block” down to the bottom of the screen and click the arrow to start it.

Next improve driving skills !!

[Gimmick]

56 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

Finally some success :-

Found how to record the movements made when using the controls and then save them .

Then found I have to click & drag the “saved program block” down to the bottom of the screen and click the arrow to start it.

Next improve driving skills !!

When you save your record and give it a name and symbol -> there is on top a second menu, where you can assign the recorded movement to the numbered buttons 1-4 on the main control page.