Bob

Star Trek 2 Mafia - Day Three

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Oh, there was only one left. :blush:

wesley.jpg

Wesley @Pandora This is a rough one for me. Would Wesley put himself in a position on Day One to seem so Scummy? Would he step in to "defend" his scum buddy in a game with no Night Actions and where our words and actions glean more scrutiny. I recognize the "sticky tape, fine Italian white wine and hope" and I do think it's par for the course for this particular teenage boy. He's also Welsey Crusher and would we be doing the Next Generation a disservice by not lynching him?? Part of why I switched my vote yesterday was because I can't imagine him putting himself in that position and rather believe he would have voted for Beverly, counting it as a first-day loss, and putting him in a better position to avoid detection. That being said, the question will always be there until either we lynch him or we get to the end of the game, at which point he could be the last one standing, letting Q win his devious little game. While I recognize the sticky tape, fine Italian white wine and hope, a part of me does recognize what Picard was referring to. Welsey's first defense on Day Two was rather passive, and as previously stated, lacked a significant amount of suspicion towards me, which is off for Wesley's typical Town game. He has seemed more aggressive since which seems more like Town-Wesley to me, but he's an amazing Mafia player and could have recognized he needed to line up more with his previous games and change his tone. I just don't freaking know! I mean, that's the point of the game, we're not supposed to know. I also probably would've un-voted Beverly had the day been more sober longer.

Our only tool here is our vote. We can't just sit back and let the Scum get night kills. I'm still curious as to why Forg played the day the way he did, choosing to vote last and remaining relatively quiet. But, Wesley is in a position where we have many questions lingering over his actions. If we don't get an answer to the questions about his behavior, and the only way to do so is to vote him out, we will continue to wonder/be distracted by the case. If he's Scum, he's proven he has the ability to convince us to let him slid by. If he's Town, the Scum will continue to try and distract us or just let us be distracted by our suspicions of him.

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27 minutes ago, Hinckley said:

Would Wesley put himself in a position on Day One to seem so Scummy?

So, and I'm trying hard to nail it down now, this is the reason you're voting for me?

Because, after the majority had already been reached on Bev, I made a throwaway comment about how I'd look saying what I was saying? I've explained it no end. You even seemed to get it at one point.

27 minutes ago, Hinckley said:

Would he step in to "defend" his scum buddy in a game with no Night Actions and where our words and actions glean more scrutiny.

Of course I bloody wouldn't and it's frankly insulting that you think I would.

27 minutes ago, Hinckley said:

Part of why I switched my vote yesterday was because I can't imagine him putting himself in that position and rather believe he would have voted for Beverly, counting it as a first-day loss, and putting him in a better position to avoid detection.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I would have done. Which I why I have also suggested The Forg (resistance is futile, clearly) might have done this - it was on my mind as a scum move. My scum moves are not "duurrrr, don't think I'm scum if I say this guys, but please don't lynch my scum chum, hyuk hyuk."

Side note, it was The Forg who started all this off, I think you're about to be doubly disappointed

27 minutes ago, Hinckley said:

That being said, the question will always be there until either we lynch him or we get to the end of the game, at which point he could be the last one standing, letting Q win his devious little game.

Oh, so the other reason is curiosity. You just want to know whether I'm scum or town once and for all, and it's ok if you lose a townie to find out, right?

27 minutes ago, Hinckley said:

Welsey's first defense on Day Two was rather passive, and as previously stated, lacked a significant amount of suspicion towards me, which is off for Wesley's typical Town game. He has seemed more aggressive since which seems more like Town-Wesley to me, but he's an amazing Mafia player and could have recognized he needed to line up more with his previous games and change his tone.

My aggression has (understandably, I think) increased as I get closer to being lynched. It's pretty draining to constantly be defending oneself from accusations that barely even appear, and my patience is wearing exceedingly thin.

27 minutes ago, Hinckley said:

Our only tool here is our vote. We can't just sit back and let the Scum get night kills.

Far better to kill a townie in the cold light of day! Yay!

27 minutes ago, Hinckley said:

But, Wesley is in a position where we have many questions lingering over his actions. If we don't get an answer to the questions about his behavior, and the only way to do so is to vote him out, we will continue to wonder/be distracted by the case. If he's Scum, he's proven he has the ability to convince us to let him slid by. If he's Town, the Scum will continue to try and distract us or just let us be distracted by our suspicions of him.

FFS, you've had an answer! The cognitive dissonance here is astonishing. If I'm such an "amazing" mafia player and I've "proven I have the ability to slid (sic) by" then I wouldn't have been so goddamn stupid to say what I said if I had actually fucking known Beverly was scum

You can, you know, just not be distracted by me, maybe? Park me to one side and look at someone else? It's not that hard, really. :hmpf: 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hinckley said:

Our only tool here is our vote. We can't just sit back and let the Scum get night kills. I'm still curious as to why Forg played the day the way he did, choosing to vote last and remaining relatively quiet. But, Wesley is in a position where we have many questions lingering over his actions. If we don't get an answer to the questions about his behavior, and the only way to do so is to vote him out, we will continue to wonder/be distracted by the case. If he's Scum, he's proven he has the ability to convince us to let him slid by. If he's Town, the Scum will continue to try and distract us or just let us be distracted by our suspicions of him.

I don't know, it seems like Wesley has answered all the questions.  Multiple times perhaps?  You seem to be the one pushing for his lynch here and the other votes just seem to be voting for whoever you vote for. I'm not seeing a whole lot of actual suspicions being put forth to support their votes anyway. Once you make up your mind to gun for someone they are through though, there doesn't seem to be anything that can dissuade you.  I speak from recent experience here myself though.

It's really a day 1 thing that makes me think the connection of Wesley and Beverly both being scum is just impossible.  Why would Wes defend Bev even with that awful scummy post when it was pretty apparent that Bev was getting lynched? It would be the worst scum move ever and not something I'd expect from someone as experienced as Wesley. I suppose, in a paranoid state, a person could make a WIFOM reasoning for it, but that is really stretching things.

I think the worst case scenario is that we don't have enough time to figure this out and hand a kill to the scum, so I'll Vote: Extend the day 

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2 hours ago, Pandora said:

So, and I'm trying hard to nail it down now, this is the reason you're voting for me?

Because, after the majority had already been reached on Bev, I made a throwaway comment about how I'd look saying what I was saying? I've explained it no end. You even seemed to get it at one point.

Of course I bloody wouldn't and it's frankly insulting that you think I would.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I would have done. Which I why I have also suggested The Forg (resistance is futile, clearly) might have done this - it was on my mind as a scum move. My scum moves are not "duurrrr, don't think I'm scum if I say this guys, but please don't lynch my scum chum, hyuk hyuk."

Side note, it was The Forg who started all this off, I think you're about to be doubly disappointed

Oh, so the other reason is curiosity. You just want to know whether I'm scum or town once and for all, and it's ok if you lose a townie to find out, right?

My aggression has (understandably, I think) increased as I get closer to being lynched. It's pretty draining to constantly be defending oneself from accusations that barely even appear, and my patience is wearing exceedingly thin.

Far better to kill a townie in the cold light of day! Yay!

FFS, you've had an answer! The cognitive dissonance here is astonishing. If I'm such an "amazing" mafia player and I've "proven I have the ability to slid (sic) by" then I wouldn't have been so goddamn stupid to say what I said if I had actually fucking known Beverly was scum

You can, you know, just not be distracted by me, maybe? Park me to one side and look at someone else? It's not that hard, really. :hmpf: 

 

 

:cry_sad: I'm just trying to play the game.

:tongue: I'm not really hurt. I am desperately confused and I kinda want to un-vote but I don't want the Scum to have a night kill and I'm helping to dismantle a gym right now and I hate posting from my phone. How much freakin' time do we have left???

1 hour ago, Darkdragon said:

I don't know, it seems like Wesley has answered all the questions.  Multiple times perhaps?  You seem to be the one pushing for his lynch here and the other votes just seem to be voting for whoever you vote for.

Are they?? F-word. I don't like that. Anonymous game please!!!

How much time do we have left??? I just don't know that the case against Picard is as strong as that against Wesley, whatever that means because they're both weak! I understand Wesley's fight from either side, Scum or Town. Can I get a Jiminy Cricket please????

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Just now, Hinckley said:

I'm not really hurt. I am desperately confused and I kinda want to un-vote but I don't want the Scum to have a night kill and I'm helping to dismantle a gym right now and I hate posting from my phone. How much freakin' time do we have left???

I think we still have more than 24 hours as we have the 4 votes required to extend the day. Haven't heard from the computer all day though, so I'm just going by my own math which  should be verified because adding is hard.

I wasn't being sarcastic, I really do mess up addition too often.  :classic:

 

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Vote Count:
Wesley Crusher / Pandora - 4 (Hinckley, Trekkie99, Kristel, Fugazi)
Jean-Luc Picard / Kristel - 2 (Pandora, Darkdragon)

With six players, a majority of 4 is required.

Extend the Day:
Yes - 4 (Hinckley, Fugazi, Pandora, Darkdragon)

With six players, a majority of 4 is required. The day has been extended by 24 hours.

Day Three will now end in a bit over 24 hours.

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Since Kristel is unable to continue and is being replaced, I have removed her vote off of Wesley Crusher / Pandora since a new player is taking her spot.

Vote Count:
Wesley Crusher / Pandora - 3 (Hinckley, Trekkie99, Fugazi)
Jean-Luc Picard / Lind Whisperer - 2 (Pandora, Darkdragon)

With six players, a majority of 4 is required.

Day Three will end in under 23 hours.

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Good afyrrnoon! It's a pleasure being with all of you! Even though I've been with you all along?

Now that fluff is out of the way...

I have noticed that, throughout this game, Troi has never recieved a great deal of scrutiny(Troinckley will disagree I'm sure) - or at least, not as much as might be expected. She's done hefty infodumps that have kept attention off her - almost as if she was relying on her "if I WAS scum" to take the pressure off....having trouble articulating my point, and I don't have much time to post. Basically, if she generously keeps applying the idea that she could be scum, people assume that that's a townie move, and forget her.

Wesley = 50/50. Leaning town/bad scum player.

Riker = he's the only one who hasn't tripped my scumdar. And that trips mine.

...I just realized that the last two people I pegged are both voting on me. I scrolled up to get their names, only to realize this? What happened to keeping names in sigs?

Hmm...since I'm town, to my slight surprise - Picard was flying under the radar, a la Riker - this slightly increases my suspicions. But not enough to place a vote yet. The bandwagon on Wesley's a.bit too easy - probably aided by fan sentiment...

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44 minutes ago, Lind Whisperer said:

Good afyrrnoon! It's a pleasure being with all of you! Even though I've been with you all along?

Now that fluff is out of the way...

I have noticed that, throughout this game, Troi has never recieved a great deal of scrutiny(Troinckley will disagree I'm sure) - or at least, not as much as might be expected. She's done hefty infodumps that have kept attention off her - almost as if she was relying on her "if I WAS scum" to take the pressure off....having trouble articulating my point, and I don't have much time to post. Basically, if she generously keeps applying the idea that she could be scum, people assume that that's a townie move, and forget her.

Wesley = 50/50. Leaning town/bad scum player.

Riker = he's the only one who hasn't tripped my scumdar. And that trips mine.

...I just realized that the last two people I pegged are both voting on me. I scrolled up to get their names, only to realize this? What happened to keeping names in sigs?

Hmm...since I'm town, to my slight surprise - Picard was flying under the radar, a la Riker - this slightly increases my suspicions. But not enough to place a vote yet. The bandwagon on Wesley's a.bit too easy - probably aided by fan sentiment...

Who the fuck are you?

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32 minutes ago, Hinckley said:

Who the megabluck are you?

 

3 hours ago, Bob said:

Since Kristel is unable to continue and is being replaced, I have removed her vote off of Wesley Crusher / Pandora since a new player is taking her spot.

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So, the new Picard suspects himself?

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12 hours ago, Hinckley said:

:cry_sad: I'm just trying to play the game.

:tongue: I'm not really hurt.

Good. I'm aware I'm being somewhat... passionate in my posts, but hurt is never something I want.

 

6 hours ago, Lind Whisperer said:

Wesley = 50/50. Leaning town/bad scum player.

That's just rude. 

 

5 hours ago, Hinckley said:

So, the new Picard suspects himself?

This is going well, isn't it?

Not to metagame the shit out of this, but there's little point replacing a player if you're in the process of voting out the remaining scum. :look:

And where are Data and The Forg? Will they need to be replaced too? Is one of them just hoping I will hurry up and die?

I am town and you are STILL making a massive mistake.

 

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2 hours ago, Pandora said:

Is one of them just hoping I will hurry up and die?

Pretty much. Your the only one that I think is scum ATM, asside from maybe Picard. 

Speaking of which, I should have explained my last post, but basically the sited interaction between Beverly and Picard struck me as weird for propsed scum mates, with Picard being his paranoid self in reply to Beverly.

Lol game with no actions and already two new players. Can't tell if it's a good thing or a bad thing...

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As I see it, I have three options, all bad.

1 - Hammer Wesley

1a He's scum, game over, we're good.

1b He's town, and I spend tomorrow defending myself because of his earlier impassioned plea+"my" weirdly scunny moments the last two days.

2 Vote for someone else.

2a Scum night kill

2b Other people like the idea - unlikely

3 Suicide/vote myself

3a Tie=scum night kill

3b Someone hammers me, we waste a day/townie 

 

After re skimming the threads I'm wondering if Troi & Wesley are both actually townie.

@Trekkie99 You haven't really posted anything of substance. I'd need to check the archives but I feel like I've seen you play exactly like this as a scum once before.

@Fugazi You're perfectly in the center. Not enough posts to stick your neck out, not so few you-re not contributing. If you're scum, good job, if town, play more!

@Darkdragon Your voting with Wesley fits a convenient pattern. If you're scum, you know people will listen to a dead townie the next day, and you're in a good spot to keep being under the radar. Don't bus Wesley, nudge everyone on bussing me tomorrow based on Wesley's testimony + "suspicious behavior"  - that's almost half the game won(for you) right there.

Beverly voting for you is such a classic scum move, that I don't think people are giving enoigh weight to.

"It's so obvious, they wouldn't try and pull that!"

Well, why not? These are recognized as classic tells for a reason!

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4 hours ago, Trekkie99 said:

Pretty much. Your the only one that I think is scum ATM, asside from maybe Picard.

You still can't tell me why you think I'm scum, you just want me gone.

 

14 minutes ago, Lind Whisperer said:

1b He's town, and I spend tomorrow defending myself because of his earlier impassioned plea+"my" weirdly scunny moments the last two days.

Ironically, this is your least scunny (sic) post so far. Not this bit, I only quoted this bit because of the "scunny". But it is interesting that you worry you might spend tomorrow thinking you might have to defend yourself if I end up town (which I will). Talk like that will get you lynched around here, Captain. :look: 

Anyway, you've said enough for me to unvote you. (surprise!)

14 minutes ago, Lind Whisperer said:

After re skimming the threads I'm wondering if Troi & Wesley are both actually townie.

Well, I think we are. I mean, I know I am for sure, and I think it's quite likely Deanna is too.

This isn't what you'd say if you were scum; if you were scum you'd just want me gone. A bit like Data.

I worry that it's The Forg, but I suspect I'd need to die to make that case. Please remember that it was he who grasped at this straw and pursued it across several days, ignoring almost anything else. It could also very easily be Data, and this is the case I would tend towards. He's said so very little, barely responded to any questioning and offered no true analysis of his own. I've played on the same side as him both as town and scum, and this fits his scum game to a tee including the gleeful bloodthirst and his utter lack worry that I might be actually be town. I think he knows I am and doesn't care.

Unvote: Picard (Lind Whisperer) and Vote: Data (Trekkie99) 

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I'm not gone, just pretty busy with a trip coming and lots to get done before I can leave. Lame excuses I know.

I'm sorry about this, Wesley, but although I feel bad for lynching you it's still necessary as the suspicion will always remain. You say that you haven't done anything scummy after Day One, but it's obvious that a single scum can say anything they want -- they don't have anyone left to protect-defend-avoid whatever term you want to use there. It's a lot harder to find the last scum in a game. That's why Day One conversations are so important.

The problem is not that Wesley isn't a terrific and devious player. What happened is that Beverly put him in a bad position by her awkward roleplay. I thought it might have been an attempt at dissociating the two by underscoring how unlikely it was that both Crushers would be part of the scum team. It could have been a good idea. It turned poorly for Beverly, and  now we need to verify the theory that was being tested.

Don't you all forget that Wesley is one of the, if not the deviousest scummy scum to ever have played on EB. He can be very convincing, which obviously plays against him when he's playing as a honest Townie. Jut like Troikley.

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Vote Count:
Wesley Crusher / Pandora - 3 (Hinckley, Trekkie99, Fugazi)
Jean-Luc Picard / Lind Whisperer - 1 (Darkdragon)
Data / Trekkie99 - 1 (Pandora)

With six players, a majority of 4 is required.

Day Three will end in just over an hour.

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I hate to say this, but Data seems so Scummy and Wesley is such a good player and it's all making me pretty confused and frustrated (plus, I've been in the hospital for the past 15 hours–not for me, and the person I am here for is going to be OK...) and I'm hungry and tired and I'm getting a headache and I'm being dramatic...I kind of just want the Scum to have a night kill. Let them remove someone from our list of suspicions.

Wait, that's nuts. I need a granola bar or something.

My gut feeling is to un-lynch Wesley and go for Data. If we're wrong, we're just stuck back on Wesley, though. This game is difficult when all your mental resources are depleted. Someone give me a back cheeseburger and some whiskey, please! Where was I? Who is that? Dad? Um...right. Un-lynch Wesley, why not? Because...it's going to suck to spend another day arguing with Wesley about why he's not Scummy but lynching him anyways. :wacko: What am I talking about? Can I get a replacement, please?

Data is Scummier, Wesley is the better player. But, Occam's Razor, when two people appear to be going at each other and arguing publicly, they're typically both Town. But Wesley and I might be going at each other in private if we could PM. That's not true either, though! I would never allow myself to have a private conversation with Wesley if I thought he was Scum and vice-versa.

Hmmmm... I guess my desire to just let the Scum have a night kill is a desire to lynch stupid Data.

Hey, my gut sucks, though! I can get really clever with evidence and strategy but I have the worst gut out of any of us. Because I play with my feelings, not my gut. So my feelings are to un-lynch Wesley. I feel like I'm high, I don't have the energy to edit this post to something coherent.

We have like a fucking hour left. Do we even have the people around to spare Wesley, yet again, and lynch Data?

And should we??? :wall: Where's my cheeseburger? Fuck the cheeseburger, I'll just take the whiskey and mass amounts thereof. Or at least two.

What am I talking about???? *huh*

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Ugh, I feel like I will do it, if they are around. @Lind Whisperer you feel better about the Data lynch than the Wesley lynch?

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46 minutes ago, Fugazi said:

I'm sorry about this, Wesley, but although I feel bad for lynching you it's still necessary as the suspicion will always remain.

The suspicion won't remain that long if you actually lynch someone who is scum.

46 minutes ago, Fugazi said:

You say that you haven't done anything scummy after Day One, but it's obvious that a single scum can say anything they want -- they don't have anyone left to protect-defend-avoid whatever term you want to use there. It's a lot harder to find the last scum in a game. That's why Day One conversations are so important.

No, a single scum cannot say anything they want. It is entirely possible, indeed probable, that a single scum out on their own will find some clumsy way to utterly fuck up. And Day One conversations are usually entirely fluff and bluster and roleplay and rubbish, not important at all.

46 minutes ago, Fugazi said:

The problem is not that Wesley isn't a terrific and devious player. What happened is that Beverly put him in a bad position by her awkward roleplay. I thought it might have been an attempt at dissociating the two by underscoring how unlikely it was that both Crushers would be part of the scum team. It could have been a good idea. It turned poorly for Beverly, and  now we need to verify the theory that was being tested.

You flatter me, and I love it, but you are devilishly devious yourself, compadre. I see you've managed to coalesce an opinion on why I'm scummy and it seems that in fact it's actually that I'm not, and it's all Beverley's fault. Which is difficult for me as I can't argue about what Beverley did, because a)she's scum and b)I'm not her. Nice.

46 minutes ago, Fugazi said:

Don't you all forget that Wesley is one of the, if not the deviousest scummy scum to ever have played on EB. He can be very convincing, which obviously plays against him when he's playing as a honest Townie. Jut like Troikley.

And don't you all forget that under this delicious flattery is one of the other, if not the deviousest scummy scum to have ever played on EB. You acknowledge the metagaming, but do it anyway. Almost as if you know I actually am an honest townie. Are you lining up Troi for later? :look: 

I'm so damn tired of this. I'll say it again for those in the back, I am town, but then, if you're going to metagame me, I suppose I would say that, wouldn't I?

 

 

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Just now, Hinckley said:

Ugh, I feel like I will do it, if they are around. @Lind Whisperer you feel better about the Data lynch than the Wesley lynch?

I'm debating that.

3 hours ago, Pandora said:

Anyway, you've said enough for me to unvote you. (surprise!)

Well, I think we are. I mean, I know I am for sure, and I think it's quite likely Deanna is too.

This isn't what you'd say if you were scum; if you were scum you'd just want me gone. A bit like Data.

I worry that it's The Forg, but I suspect I'd need to die to make that case. Please remember that it was he who grasped at this straw and pursued it across several days, ignoring almost anything else. It could also very easily be Data, and this is the case I would tend towards. He's said so very little, barely responded to any questioning and offered no true analysis of his own. I've played on the same side as him both as town and scum, and this fits his scum game to a tee including the gleeful bloodthirst and his utter lack worry that I might be actually be town. I think he knows I am and doesn't care.

Glad as I am to have someone who agrees with me, it was a bit of a quickly changed vote. In a previous game, I was grateful to Crusher for agreeing with me - which was a mistake, as Crusher was then also scum, which I had suspected but dropped.

I don't think this is a repeat, but the possibility of Wesley realizing my hammer vote might be changed by agreeing with me, is not a non-factor.

Eh.

I'd like to vote Riker. But if it's down to Wesley/Data...

Vote: Data @Trekkie99

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Here's the biggest crux for me. Wesley is too smart to associate himself so strongly with someone he knows would flip Scum, if lynched. Perhaps the reason I'm saying it still needs to be tested is because it might be what I would've done if I were Beverly's Scum buddy-try to save her. But, that's because I'm impatient and hasty and emotional. Wesley is not. He's patient and calculated and I am close to going as far to say that he would never ever ever ever put himself in this position if he was Scum. He'd probably glom onto the Beverly vote and if she got lynched, ride out the rest of the game seeming cool, collected, logical, fine white Italian wine fueled and cruise to a victory. It just doesn't ring true to me that he would choose, instead, to just paint the biggest target on himself, knowing there was enough time left to ... fuck... gotta run.

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1 minute ago, Lind Whisperer said:

Eh.

I'd like to vote Riker. But if it's down to Wesley/Data...

Vote: Data @Trekkie99

Only you or Riker can ensure a lynch RN. If there is no lynch then a town member will die. Probably Worf! :cry2:

4 hours ago, Lind Whisperer said:

Beverly voting for you is such a classic scum move, that I don't think people are giving enoigh weight to.

Could be. But that wagon could have flown. How would she been able to jump off of it?

4 hours ago, Pandora said:

Unvote: Picard (Lind Whisperer) and Vote: Data (Trekkie99) 

Hey if that's what it takes to get you lynched, so be it. :tongue:

22 minutes ago, Pandora said:

The suspicion won't remain that long if you actually lynch someone who is scum.

Eh? :snicker:

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Just now, Trekkie99 said:

Probably Worf! :cry2:

Could be. But that wagon could have flown. How would she been able to jump off of it?

If you haven't been reading, we've ALL(Troi/Wesley/me) been voicing suspicion of Fworg. :thumbdown:

More fluff? When you're facing a possible lynch for that exact thing?

 

I can check the time, but it was late enough in the day, with such sluggish activity, that it was not likely to go off.

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