New LotR action figures make me hopeful for Lego

[lego the hutt]

Not sure how many people follow other toy lines but at NYTF Diamond Select announced they are releasing a new LotR line.  Just seeing it gives me hope for more Lego. The new live action LotR TV show is said to release in 2021. 

How do other people think the recent success of the Harry Potter theme will affect the possibility of another LotR line?  I am torn.  It seems like a positive that the Potter theme has sold so well after being re-released.  That gives me hope that the same could happen for a LotR line...but then there is the other side. 

Has Harry Potter sold so well that it will fill the "castle" theme slot at the expense of the possibility of a re-released LotR theme?  Does anyone think that having both Harry Potter sets and LotR sets on the shelf at the same time might be possible?  That seems unlikely to me.  

Since the 3rd (and final?) Fantastic Beasts movie releases in 2021 I guess it could be possible that we get a last wave of Potter for the movie and *If* the LotR TV show ends up being popular the "castle" sets could transition from Potter to LotR at that time?  

I am hopeful no matter how unlikely it might be.  

[MAB]

8 hours ago, lego the hutt said:

How do other people think the recent success of the Harry Potter theme will affect the possibility of another LotR line?  I am torn.  It seems like a positive that the Potter theme has sold so well after being re-released.  That gives me hope that the same could happen for a LotR line...but then there is the other side.

I don't think it has much to do with it. Harry Potter seemed to sell well in 2004-2010. The new sets have also done well. LOTR (combined with the Hobbit) didn't seem to sell so well first time around. So would it the second time?

8 hours ago, lego the hutt said:

Has Harry Potter sold so well that it will fill the "castle" theme slot at the expense of the possibility of a re-released LotR theme?  Does anyone think that having both Harry Potter sets and LotR sets on the shelf at the same time might be possible?  That seems unlikely to me. 

I don't think there is a castle slot. There have been years with multiple themes that people like to call castle. HP + Castle, LOTR + Castle. There have been years with none. 

I don't really see any overlap between LOTR and Harry Potter, any more than overlap between Star Wars and Super Heroes. They are completely different franchises, with different fan bases. Harry Potter is relatively kid friendly and very popular among kids. LOTR is neither.

If there is a good business case to make LOTR sets again, they will make them again.

 

[TeriXeri]

The only time I could see a "Castle Slot" being a thing was 2011, when the wave lasted less then 8 months, when Lord of the Rings appeared on the market in 2012.

(Based on Brickset's set availabity on LEGO.com)

But even then, there was still 1 new Castle set for 2012 also.

2013 Castle also co-existed with Hobbit sets in 2013/2014.

 

Harry Potter had no sets from 2012-2017

Harry Potter came back in Summer 2018

Elves and Nexo Knights both had early 2018 small waves, but retired after, but I still don't think that Harry Potter had anything to do with that.

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by TeriXeri

[MAB]

On 2/26/2020 at 5:26 PM, TeriXeri said:

The only time I could see a "Castle Slot" being a thing was 2011, when the wave lasted less then 8 months, when Lord of the Rings appeared on the market in 2012.

There were also Harry Potter sets that overlapped with 2011 Castle. Same in 2010, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, ... Then there are years with neither Castle nor a licensed castle-like theme. Together, this is why I don't think that there is a definitive castle slot that can be taken by only one of Castle or a licensed competitor branding.

[RogueTwo]

A potential new LOTR line won't replace Harry Potter.  I suspect (and desperately hope) that we'll get at least a D2C.  LEGO has released a lot of large, adult-oriented, collectible sets since LOTR, including Back to the Future, Ghostbusters, Stranger Things, James Bond, The Flintstones, The Big Bang Theory, Doctor Who, and 80s Batman.  And before you say that most of those were LEGO Ideas picks, keep in mind that not one but two Minas Tirith sets got 10,000 supporters and made it to the review phase.  
My hope is that if we do get a resurgence, we also get some "Legacy" sets from the original movies.  Also, wouldn't be surprised if anything we do get is an Amazon exclusive.  

[josebricks]

Sad to say my dark age coincided with the original LOTR sets. Future set releases at this point may hinge on the tone Amazon chooses: more “adventure” vs a potentially darker or warfare centered approach

[wesker]

On 2/26/2020 at 9:16 PM, MAB said:

I don't think it has much to do with it. Harry Potter seemed to sell well in 2004-2010. The new sets have also done well. LOTR (combined with the Hobbit) didn't seem to sell so well first time around. So would it the second time?

The first LOTR wave and Bag End sold just fine. It was everything that came after that sold poorly. Part of the problem was the Hobbit trilogy not resonating with audiences the same way LOTR did as it wasn't just Lego that sold poorly but all Hobbit merchandise. The other problem was the second LOTR wave focusing on secondary "filler" sets instead of capturing the more memorable moments of the trilogy like the first wave did.

For a Middle Earth comeback to work they really need to keep the Hobbit sets to a minimum like they've done with Fantastic Beasts in the Harry Potter line and limit LOTR's focus primarily on the most iconic moments of the trilogy.

[legoMoccer]

i've also noticed a lot of old lego licences came back up on lego ideas including Pirates of the caribbean and Lord of the rings so it seems as though Lego can get/use these licences again

[Gorilla94]

On 3/7/2020 at 4:39 AM, wesker said:

The first LOTR wave and Bag End sold just fine. It was everything that came after that sold poorly. Part of the problem was the Hobbit trilogy not resonating with audiences the same way LOTR did as it wasn't just Lego that sold poorly but all Hobbit merchandise. The other problem was the second LOTR wave focusing on secondary "filler" sets instead of capturing the more memorable moments of the trilogy like the first wave did.

For a Middle Earth comeback to work they really need to keep the Hobbit sets to a minimum like they've done with Fantastic Beasts in the Harry Potter line and limit LOTR's focus primarily on the most iconic moments of the trilogy.

I'd add as a third point, that most sets were awefull. Except the gorgeous Smaug the Erebor Set was pathetic. At least there should have been a pearl Gold baseplate with a few of these gold piles and columns as well as a paper background like the old Studio sets had. Without these things it looks just plain. Even if i ignore the ridiculous price it looks bad as a product in itself. The only people who did a great job were the designer of Smaug and the photoshop designer, who made a box artwork that made it look like you'd get much more. Even the most enthusiastic fanboy reviews on Amazon were dissapointed to some degree and that is a strong indicator that there is something objectively wrong.

The battle of the five minifigures is maybe the most pathetic set of the line. The structure looks like a five year old designed it and the Balista screams "so cheap"... on top of that there was an embarrassing figure selection. Azog is a fine figure and the crown of Thorin is gorgeous. Why has Thorin no cape? Dains Helmet is a great mould but should have been pearl dark grey instead of just dark grey. Reusing Dwalins Beard for Dain was awefull, but reusing Gloins face and giving him a translucent "Elves"-Weapon cant be justified. The orcs without headgear are a bad joke.... i could critisize this set all day long.

I don't know what to say about the two laketown sets. There is a nice printed shield,  Bard without dirty face, a Laketown guard and the Master of Laketown. These were well executed. Besides that the sets look like a child made them out of an extremely limited amount of bricks including some reused minifigure parts (i know Thorins torso is exclusive. It just looks generic and boring like a reused old print). The buildings are ugly and simplistic shelters. In the film the city had seen better days but it still had a pretty architecture.

The Mirkwood army combined irrelevant and poorly executed perfectly.

I am crazy about Middle Earth and willing to pay an amount of money for things i like that seems just stupid to others. I love the hobbit movies (except the Tauriel-Legolas-stuff) and work on customs for quite random things that were not made by Lego. You won't find a more forgiving person when it comes to the "buy or buy not"-decision, but even I bricklinked just the figures and build my own stuff.

I would not say they must keep the hobbit sets to a minimum. If they are good castle sets, they will sell. For example a little Throne scene with Thrain and Thror or a battle pack with iron Hill dwarfs as well as a good Erebor set reusing Smaug. 

Of course Lord of the Rings as well as Hobbit sets need to focus. Baggings End on a modular building level of quality with a lot of Dwarfes and detail as the flagship-set would be great. 3 Moria Trolls reprinted with a cooking place and some dwarfes would work. It would even be usefull for generic fantasy builders.

Lord of the rings could have one wave just filling gaps from the last two. Balrog. Witchking on Fellbeast vs. Eowyn. Rohan Battlepack with recolours of the new Viking helmet and the old Rohan helmet. A big Minas Tirith Set. All of these would appeal even to children who never heared of middle earth... unlike the orc forge...

 

[GJC15344]

On 3/5/2020 at 11:48 PM, RogueTwo said:

keep in mind that not one but two Minas Tirith sets got 10,000 supporters and made it to the review phase.  

I am wondering where you got this information? I recently submitted a Minas Tirith desgin on LEGO Ideas, but I could not find another version that got more than 1500 supporters.

[sahidko]

1 hour ago, GJC15344 said:

I am wondering where you got this information? I recently submitted a Minas Tirith desgin on LEGO Ideas, but I could not find another version that got more than 1500 supporters.

This: https://ideas.lego.com/projects/c8ea2aec-39a3-426e-9951-8fee9a759e67 ... not sure what was the second one though

 

 

[MAB]

23 hours ago, Gorilla94 said:

Lord of the rings could have one wave just filling gaps from the last two. Balrog. Witchking on Fellbeast vs. Eowyn. Rohan Battlepack with recolours of the new Viking helmet and the old Rohan helmet. A big Minas Tirith Set. All of these would appeal even to children who never heared of middle earth... unlike the orc forge...

 

I don't think that is possible now. It is now 7 years since the last LOTR sets (or 6 for The Hobbit). If they did LOTR again, they cannot just fill in the gaps, they would need to start again if the sets were going to sell.

As for the detail contained in the sets, the major problem for LOTR and The Hobbit is the size of the locations. Sure it is possible to come up with a great build for them if you use 4-5x as many parts, but they would be UCS MF prices. I don't think that there is the appetite for sets of that sort of price.

[Gorilla94]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

I don't think that is possible now. It is now 7 years since the last LOTR sets (or 6 for The Hobbit). If they did LOTR again, they cannot just fill in the gaps, they would need to start again if the sets were going to sell.

As for the detail contained in the sets, the major problem for LOTR and The Hobbit is the size of the locations. Sure it is possible to come up with a great build for them if you use 4-5x as many parts, but they would be UCS MF prices. I don't think that there is the appetite for sets of that sort of price.

I get your point, but to be honest I think that isn't a problem, because the holes are infact essential elements. If there is a Balrog instead of Balins tomb in a first wave Mines of Moria set, it won't look like it is a random sceene targeted to hardcore fans. It could have been just like that back then. The Witchking of Angmar with a dragon is by far less uninteresting for children without connection to the licence as well as to Afols than the uruk hai forge. A 9,99 Set with a shiny golden Dwarfking and his Throne would sell no matter if it was a Middle earth set.

[Alcarin]

The main problem was the fact LOTR wave 2 had 0 Gondor... how this happened is BEYOND ME as LOTR fan... really... If we got Gondor battlepack with Faramir in gondor armor and 1 ranger and2 gondor knights with gondor shields, it would sell inhundreds easily in most shops... but no, we got BORING sets....

[leafan]

On 3/8/2020 at 10:33 AM, GJC15344 said:

I am wondering where you got this information? I recently submitted a Minas Tirith desgin on LEGO Ideas, but I could not find another version that got more than 1500 supporters.

Is the below submission yours then? Seems so:

On 3/4/2020 at 11:19 PM, leafan said:

Added Minas Tirith by GJC15344:

I added it to the Historical Support thread and if it is indeed yours, I will update it.

I may have posted on the Ideas comments suggesting this site, too.

Welcome aboard!

Edited March 9, 2020 by leafan

[Ql97]

On 3/6/2020 at 8:39 PM, wesker said:

 The other problem was the second LOTR wave focusing on secondary "filler" sets instead of capturing the more memorable moments of the trilogy like the first wave did.

I'm still convinced that there was a third wave originally planned, for release in the winter after the third Hobbit movie, as sort of a big wrap-up for the Middle Earth theme. Then the Battle of Five Armies was pushed back to the holiday season, and there simply wasn't enough time to move forward production of that wave, so they decided to just bin it. I recall Lego's production capacity being under pretty heavy strain at the time.

[GJC15344]

23 hours ago, leafan said:

Is the below submission yours then?

Yes it is indeed.

[MAB]

On 3/9/2020 at 3:44 PM, Alcarin said:

 If we got Gondor battlepack with Faramir in gondor armor and 1 ranger and2 gondor knights with gondor shields, it would sell inhundreds easily in most shops... but no, we got BORING sets....

That sounds similar to the Uruk-Hai Army / wall set, but for Gondor rather than for Rohan. Although popular now, that one in particular seemed to be a bad seller when it was on the shelves.

[derEselausErgste]

It was indeed. I can remember i bought the Wall Section Set for €13,90 in "normal" toy Shops - wish I  bought more of them. 

[Gorilla94]

On 3/11/2020 at 10:50 AM, MAB said:

That sounds similar to the Uruk-Hai Army / wall set, but for Gondor rather than for Rohan. Although popular now, that one in particular seemed to be a bad seller when it was on the shelves.

Sure. The successfull Battlepacks ...

A) ... include generic characters for army builders who buy dozens of them (like the one with 4 generic clones that had a walker even usefull if you get multibles of it)

or

B) ... have such great figures that many people want them (new mandalorian battlepack)

If you want an Uruk-hai army that outnumbers your Rohan soldiers and runs against your Helm's deep like the sea, it isn't very usefull to get extra Rohirim and a large piece of extra wall with each additional Uruk... that concept was stupid and it didnd't help that it was on top overpriced for what you get.

On top of that Rohirim are terrible for army building in general. Each one looks different. It doesn't work like clone troopers. On top of that one of the two is Eomer, a named character... If there were 4 completely different ones with parts you can all combine well to make completely different looking ones (maybe even with different printed viking helmets like in series 20 that can be combined with other beards), than a Rohan battlepack would have real potential.

Gondor soldiers on the other hand wear uniforms. Give them 4 different faces and maybe 2 facial expressions and it will sell well. Faramir should be included in a Minas Tirith set.

[MAB]

15 hours ago, Gorilla94 said:

Sure. The successfull Battlepacks ...

A) ... include generic characters for army builders who buy dozens of them (like the one with 4 generic clones that had a walker even usefull if you get multibles of it)

or

B) ... have such great figures that many people want them (new mandalorian battlepack)

If you want an Uruk-hai army that outnumbers your Rohan soldiers and runs against your Helm's deep like the sea, it isn't very usefull to get extra Rohirim and a large piece of extra wall with each additional Uruk... that concept was stupid and it didnd't help that it was on top overpriced for what you get.

On top of that Rohirim are terrible for army building in general. Each one looks different. It doesn't work like clone troopers. On top of that one of the two is Eomer, a named character... If there were 4 completely different ones with parts you can all combine well to make completely different looking ones (maybe even with different printed viking helmets like in series 20 that can be combined with other beards), than a Rohan battlepack would have real potential.

Gondor soldiers on the other hand wear uniforms. Give them 4 different faces and maybe 2 facial expressions and it will sell well. Faramir should be included in a Minas Tirith set.

Secondary market prices suggest that the availability of Uruk-Hai (compared to Rohan Soldiers) was not a problem. Uruks appeared in many sets, as well as a cheap polybag. The concept of having Uruks and Rohan soldiers and a wall was only stupid if you wanted multiples of part of the set only. For those that wanted a small army of both and to have a bit of scenery for play, then the set was fine. 

There are plenty of other castle and viking type torsos that can be mixed in with Rohan Soldiers to build an army. I think I must have at least 20 Eomers, mainly for the helmets, heads, capes and legs. Their torsos are also useful for other Castle armies. At the time, BL sellers were selling them for about the price of a generic CMF.

Gondor soldiers would have been a good idea, but then any Gondor sets would have been a good idea. Personally, I went non-purist to get some of their armour as LEGO failed here.

 

[General Magma]

That new viking CMF figure would be excellent for Rohirrim. They could easily reuse the helmet and have it exist in silver with gold markings, dark brown with gold markings and whatever colours they want.
The thing is that they need to actually make the cool stuff. The first LOTR wave was a good start, but the second one was just a line-up of strange choices and it really struck me as if they weren't too sure
about what to do, same with the battlepack. I just wonder, though... why do certain themes get so many dual molded legs and arms and then other themes, such as Star Wars, get none?
Especially for LOTR, but any theme really, the inclusion of dual molded legs and arms would skyrocket the quality of the figures and would make people want them even more.
One could only hope they'd add that to such new figures.

Edited April 10, 2020 by General Magma

[MAB]

16 hours ago, General Magma said:

That new viking CMF figure would be excellent for Rohirrim. They could easily reuse the helmet and have it exist in silver with gold markings, dark brown with gold markings and whatever colours they want.
 

I think I prefer the original LOTR Rohirrim helmet to the new viking one, as the viking one looks so large, especially if the minifigure does not have a beard on. And the blue printed cape ruins the torso for me. And then the legs have a bit of a strap printed on them, which means it can only be used with the correct torso. 

16 hours ago, General Magma said:

 I just wonder, though... why do certain themes get so many dual molded legs and arms and then other themes, such as Star Wars, get none?
Especially for LOTR, but any theme really, the inclusion of dual molded legs and arms would skyrocket the quality of the figures and would make people want them even more.
One could only hope they'd add that to such new figures.

I really hope to see more dual molded legs with fairly neutral upper colours and darker colours for boots. And dual molding the short legs with flesh coloured feet would have been perfect for the hobbits.

 

[Beleg the Ranger]

I am a diehard fan of all Tolkien books and of the movies. The first wave of LOTR sets was really cool as well as Bag End. Bag End was awesome! The second wave, not so much... Although the Soldiers of the Dead were nice, the corsair ship was somewhat small, the black gate tiny, and the wizard battle uninteresting. What Lego should have done would be, say, Osgiliath, with Faramir, several Gondorian soldiers like Koruit's current ones and some Mordor Orcs and Gothmog.With the new Amazon show, if Amazon follows the books closely, Lego sets could be varied, ranging from "Aldarion discusses philosophy with Tar-Meneldur" to "Numenorean battle pack" and "The Battle of Rivendell". The latter two would contain minifigs interesting to everyone. A few sets featuring scenes from The Hobbit, such as Iron Hills battle pack or Ravenhill attack, featuring  (hopefully) more Dwarves. Lots of Dwarves. Also a true army of Dol Guldur orcs, not a duo of hunter orcs. In hope of more Tolkien and Jackson based sets, Beleg.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Beleg the Ranger

[Lyichir]

An issue with extrapolating the possibility of Lego sets from other premium toymakers revisiting the franchise is that the two aim at very different markets. Yes, there will be Lord of the Rings toys again. But will they be prominently advertised to kids on the shelves at Wal-Mart or Target? Or will they remain a niche product for die-hard collectors, especially adult collectors? A streaming TV series doesn't have as much merchandising impact as a movie in most cases, after all.

I wouldn't necessarily rule out Lego revisiting the Lord of the Rings license completely. But if it were to return to tie in with this new series, I might sooner expect a small-scale revival, like Lego has done for franchises like Pirates of the Caribbean, or for other streaming tie-in sets like Vader's Castle and the Razor's Crest in the Star Wars theme. One large, premium, adult targeted set (and eh, probably a BrickHeadz set or two if they did go through the trouble of reobtaining the license) feels more comparable to the general merchandising strategy of other Lord of the RIngs products than a full wave of sets that would usually rely on the larger but more fickle kid demographic for Lego sets. Harry Potter (which when you get right down to it is based on a series of children's books and movies) is perhaps a less apt comparison, especially given what we know of how their respective Lego themes performed the first time around.