Lego David

Why is LEGO so hesitant about bringing back classic themes?

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Just now, Maple said:

Pirates was never really a Classic theme, it was always kind of wishy washy, but it amazes me we didn't even get a D2C pirate ship for the 30th anniversary. There have been two 40th anniversary sets of Trains in two different years but nothing for Pirates is a bit of a let down.

....and space is now under City. Benny the Spaceman has made a deal with City now. Heck, you can still see torsos with his face on them. That's closure right there. Castle may succeed, but given all these rules that Lego goes by, I just don't see it returning. Now if they were to do a Forest Explorers set for City where they explore ancient castle ruins, that would be likely. 

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Just now, Brandon Pea said:

 Now if they were to do a Forest Explorers set for City where they explore ancient castle ruins, that would be likely. 

I wonder if the 2020 Hidden Side "Castle of Mystery" has some of those black/blue colored "Trees" in the set , considering the other 2020 sets that have those.

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I know it's not City but that's the closest to a confirmed Castle set for this year at least.

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49 minutes ago, Brandon Pea said:

@Medzomorak That still doesnt mean Lego will change things around from going for their targeted audience to satisfy the small percentage of adults. We don't really know the limitations Lego is under. 

....and 1998 is still the 90s. 

I never said that this means anything, just corrected the statement. Also '98 is the 20th century as well, but the 20th century was not Lego's dark ages. So 80s and 90s is not the same as 1998 :D 

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9 minutes ago, Medzomorak said:

I never said that this means anything, just corrected the statement. Also '98 is the 20th century as well, but the 20th century was not Lego's dark ages. So 80s and 90s is not the same as 1998 :D 

For me, the decline of set design started in 1997 with those town junior designs, but I was much younger so I still had sets from that time, but I agree the real (financial) dark age was after 2000 when some themes were entirely missing or only found in Legends sets.

That's really visible how Town went via Jack Stone/Lego Island/Studios and World City to the current City.
 

Also was by far the longest gap between Pirates (1997-2009)  + (2001/2002 LEGENDS).

Edited by TeriXeri

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1 hour ago, MAB said:

LEGO doesn't really care about LEGO fans, they care about LEGO customers. That is, fans that are currently buying their products.

I've now heard both arguments on Eurobricks:

AFOLs don't matter because they already buy LEGO sets.

AFOLs don't matter because they don't buy enough LEGO sets. 

Obviously both arguments are ridiculous. Every business wants to get new customers, and keep existing customers. 

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Well, LEGO Ideas' Exo Suit sort of counts as Classic Space, and their upcoming Pirate Bay set definitely counts as Classic Pirates!

As far as I think, LEGO Ideas may be the only way to give non-licensed Classic themes more new products.

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2 hours ago, MAB said:

You said a year or so ago that you haven't really bought anything new since Bionicle Generation 2 and what you had bought had been a disappointment.  You are clearly not a LEGO customer, even though your are a LEGO fan.

Things have changed a bit since then though. A few stuff that interests me has come out since then, with Hidden Side being the primary one.

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1 hour ago, MatthewRC said:

As far as I think, LEGO Ideas may be the only way to give non-licensed Classic themes more new products.

That, and the upcoming 3-in-1 Pirates ship/island/building set

Edited by TeriXeri

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1 hour ago, danth said:

I've now heard both arguments on Eurobricks:

AFOLs don't matter because they already buy LEGO sets.

AFOLs don't matter because they don't buy enough LEGO sets. 

Obviously both arguments are ridiculous. Every business wants to get new customers, and keep existing customers. 

I quote every single word.

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Had a thought.  Bricklink last year came out with a few sets of their own (new Lego bricks).  Don't see why they couldn't come out with Space or Castle sets.  Now that TLG owns Bricklink seams like a great way for them to expand their market a bit and appease a few AFOL.

The more I think about this....the more I like it.  

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3 hours ago, danth said:

I've now heard both arguments on Eurobricks:

Do you focus on two out of many (you call "both", which is a difference) arguments?

In any case: It is not "not matter" - it is "probably less than AFOLs wish". That is a big difference. I simply don't like the shortcuts made in your reasoning followed by a bold conclusion.

3 hours ago, danth said:

Obviously both arguments are ridiculous

Again: Your conclusion implies that you have "heard" it right. It is a 6 page long thread. As far as I am concerned, you have drawn your conclusion from your focused observations. I don't see any evidence that this is "obvious" nor that they are "ridiculous". I have no clue where your self-confidence originates - mind to share that as well?

Best
Thorsten

 

29 minutes ago, LegoDW said:

(new Lego bricks)

What exactly does that mean?

Best
Thorsten

3 hours ago, Brandon Pea said:

does care

To be honest, I am losing the story in this thread.

Care about what/whom?

Best
Thorsten

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10 minutes ago, Toastie said:

Care about what/whom?

Our complaints and petty grievances 

Edited by Brandon Pea

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1 hour ago, Toastie said:

 

What exactly does that mean?

 

The Bricklink sets I was referring to were made from new, not used Lego bricks.  

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2 hours ago, LegoDW said:

Had a thought.  Bricklink last year came out with a few sets of their own (new Lego bricks).  Don't see why they couldn't come out with Space or Castle sets.  Now that TLG owns Bricklink seams like a great way for them to expand their market a bit and appease a few AFOL.

The more I think about this....the more I like it.  

If they ship them from Europe also, I'm all for that.

Those sets last year shipped from US and would mean paying at least 21%* extra for just VAT on top of the full price.

*(Import Duties, Shipping Cost, Handling Fees etc not included, and +21% would be added on top of those as well)

 

My prefered way would be more "Classic" sets, under the Creator 3-in-1 / Creator Expert theme if they don't fit elsewhere.

Edited by TeriXeri

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2 hours ago, LegoDW said:

Had a thought.  Bricklink last year came out with a few sets of their own (new Lego bricks).  Don't see why they couldn't come out with Space or Castle sets.  Now that TLG owns Bricklink seams like a great way for them to expand their market a bit and appease a few AFOL.

The more I think about this....the more I like it.  

It may be worthwhile for a smaller entity like BL to play in the niche market producing and distributing limited run low volume offerings.

 

 

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Serious change may come in the next decades for sure. I imagine this to start by the truly and whole automatization of every production step of the industry, with more augmentet IoT tools and technologies converging all the services to fully personalized marketing. That way you may just create your own things digitally and it is going to be wrapped, boxed, maybe even AI designed and shipped all the way to your very doorstep. Very similar to bricklink's and stud.io's present services just more in user friendly and smart way. Maybe you will be able to design your own themes and stuff quite easily. But that's just some fiction from me.

For the short run it is very well based on trends. Maybe the designing of new and completely original themes will take more and more effort and capital and Lego will just take on the original ways again for a couple of years. There are just so many variables even in the toy industry to be sure of future situations.

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21 hours ago, Maple said:

They wouldn't sell.

A bit presumptuous, isn't it? I can only reiterate my point: If Playmobil, Schleich and others can sell knights, pirates and some other stuff by the bucket, then there must be something to it. You don't even need to get into some of the reasons I've laid out. Of course there are further-reaching implications for a globally operating company like LEGO, but where does it say a well done knights theme that might be hugely popular in Europe couldn't gain enough traction to be relevant outside this market as well? After all, it's common for movies, music and what have you to work across cultural and geographical borders, so why do so many people assume it would not work for LEGO themes?

Mylenium

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3 minutes ago, Mylenium said:

A bit presumptuous, isn't it? I can only reiterate my point: If Playmobil, Schleich and others can sell knights, pirates and some other stuff by the bucket, then there must be something to it. You don't even need to get into some of the reasons I've laid out. Of course there are further-reaching implications for a globally operating company like LEGO, but where does it say a well done knights theme that might be hugely popular in Europe couldn't gain enough traction to be relevant outside this market as well? After all, it's common for movies, music and what have you to work across cultural and geographical borders, so why do so many people assume it would not work for LEGO themes?

Mylenium

Lego does what they want. Even though the side of the fandom that actually buys votes against it, Lego does it anyway and when it comes to something people DO want....they don't do it. Look at the people who are raging over the indignity of Lego City being a police state and you'll see a prime example of that. :wink:

Edited by Brandon Pea

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11 hours ago, Mylenium said:

A bit presumptuous, isn't it?

Clearly it's not. LEGO's one goal is to make the most amount of money possible. If they thought castle, pirates or whatever would sell they be making it. It's really that simple.

The fact you bring up Playmobil is funny to me. In the USA they aren't even sold in stores anymore. Only place I've ever seen them were Toys R Us. Walmart sells them online, not in store. Same with Target. You know why? Because they don't sell. Meanwhile LEGO has 1-2 aisles in every store. 

Why is LEGO making so many Police sets? Because they sell. Why does LEGO make so many planes and helicopters even in sets that makes very little sense? Because they sell.

It's really that simple. 

So maybe you are being presumptuous on thinking you know what LEGO should do more than LEGO.

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8 minutes ago, Maple said:

LEGO's one goal is to make the most amount of money possible.

Well so much for making awesome building toys being their first and foremost goal. 

8 minutes ago, Maple said:

Why is LEGO making so many Police sets? Because they sell.

You mean why does CITY make so many of them. 

Tbh, sells of other City sets kinda dwindle because of those. They barely put anything else out there. 

8 minutes ago, Maple said:

The fact you bring up Playmobil is funny to me. In the USA they aren't even sold in stores anymore. Only place I've ever seen them were Toys R Us. Walmart sells them online, not in store. Same with Target.

Thats a lie. I see at least 40+ playmobil sets in both Walmart stores daily. At least 20 in Barnes & Noble stores. Some in Target stores too. Even though Lego is popular, there are still plenty of children and adults who like non-Lego vehicles too. 

Edited by Brandon Pea

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4 hours ago, Maple said:

So maybe you are being presumptuous...

Oh please! We can stand here all day and I can explain to you what I'm observing on the German market and you can in return go on droning on about the US market and nothing gets done. I'm not going to pretend that either would be the ultimate truth, but here in Europe the pecking order on the toy market is pretty clear: LEGO first, Playmobil second - or reversed, depending on which market studies you trust. Therefore dismissing Playmobil out of hand and saying their stuff doesn't sell at all is just plain stupid. I'm not even going to apologize for calling it that.

Where the US market is concerned, my observation is that it is extremely uneven. If someone like Jangbricks is unable to purchase all sets of a LEGO release cycle for his reviews within 200 miles of his living home in different large stores, then it must mean that either it is up to the discretion of the respective store managers or supply chain management/ logistics in the US are really that terrible. In fact I'm also following Mega Construx and a few other toy brands as well and the story is pretty much the same there or even worse.

So with all respect, Playmobil not being available in certain US regions probably has other underlying reasons even if you concede to the fact that they are of course a German company making a majority of their revenues here and across the rest of Europe. Does that mean that people in the US wouldn't want Playmobil, Bruder, Schleich and otehr stuff just like they want LEGO? Certainly not. It's just some factors standing against a wider market proliferation, some critical ones of which are beyond the companies' control at this point, it seems. 'nuff said...

Mylenium

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On 2/28/2020 at 10:58 AM, danth said:

I've now heard both arguments on Eurobricks:

AFOLs don't matter because they already buy LEGO sets.

AFOLs don't matter because they don't buy enough LEGO sets. 

Obviously both arguments are ridiculous. Every business wants to get new customers, and keep existing customers. 

I’d say both could be true. On a whole, AFOLs matter very little as *broken record* we’re a small percentage. At the same time, as you said, TLG wants to keep its existing customers. They have to keep us wanting to buy because they know, despite our overall value, we keep coming back. I’ve now been back into LEGO for 13 years, I’d wager that’s longer than the average kid stays with the toy. If we didn’t matter to the company, would they really be holding AFOL days at their stores? 

On 2/29/2020 at 8:12 AM, Brandon Pea said:

Lego does what they want. Even though the side of the fandom that actually buys votes against it, Lego does it anyway and when it comes to something people DO want....they don't do it. Look at the people who are raging over the indignity of Lego City being a police state and you'll see a prime example of that. :wink:

That’s not entirely fair. Sometimes our wants simply don’t line up, for whatever reason, with the company. Classic themes, we know how well they would sell, as we would gobble them up in a heartbeat. But I’m guessing someone at TLG knows better than we do on their market. We’ve gone round & round on Police & we both agree that it’s too much. But it clearly must be a great seller, otherwise we wouldn’t be seeing it all the time. Having something else in its place, like some sort of explorers subtheme, wouldn’t sell just as well. 

21 hours ago, Brandon Pea said:

@Mylenium He also said they don't sell Playmobil in Walmart stores in the US, which is a lie. 

His area probably. It’s the same for me. I couldn’t even tell you for sure if they sell Playmobil. I know they don’t have a big presence. There is a small section at the very end of the LEGO aisle that has other brand things, like blind bag pouches...that may be Playmobil. But I barely pay it any mind. 

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