Robert8

LEGO IDEAS - The Medieval Blacksmith

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Grover said:

As a castle fan, I had a lot of hope and expectations for this set.  I have been disappointed, and my excitement for the new set has given way to this disappointment, which I found somewhat confusing.  Rather than complain on here, I thought I would be constructive and try to analyze why I feel disappointed.  To do that, I realized I had to look at why I had voted for the set in the first place.  So I would like to ask each of you as well:

1. Did you vote for this set on Ideas?

2. Why did you vote for this set if you did or why didn't you if you didn't?

1. Yes, I voted for this set
2. I voted it because the details are incredible.

Would I vote for the official version if it was an ideas project? Yes, but I'll make a lot of modifications myself. Would it have reached 10k supporters? Maybe, but at a slower pace than the original project.

Edited by JintaiZ

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I really don't get the huge amount of hate about this set not having all the animals.  I mean its a blacksmith.  In reality none of those animals would have been anywhere near a  guy forging metal.  I mean if you want animals there are tons of other sets or B&P that have that stuff.  I'm in it for the set and the minifigs, animals are of no importance here.  And as far as the blacksmith not having enough tools all he needs are hammers and a set of tongs and that's it really.  The set is fine and I'm going to buy it to support the castle theme to show that we all still want castle sets.  It just seems whatever castle set lego makes there will always be hate.  But I'm going to take what castle I can get at this point.  2020 was a crap year and 2021 doesn't look much better and Lego is one of the few things that keeps me sane so brick on everyone.  

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45 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

I really don't get the huge amount of hate about this set not having all the animals.  I mean its a blacksmith.  In reality none of those animals would have been anywhere near a  guy forging metal.  I mean if you want animals there are tons of other sets or B&P that have that stuff.  I'm in it for the set and the minifigs, animals are of no importance here.  And as far as the blacksmith not having enough tools all he needs are hammers and a set of tongs and that's it really.  The set is fine and I'm going to buy it to support the castle theme to show that we all still want castle sets.  It just seems whatever castle set lego makes there will always be hate.  But I'm going to take what castle I can get at this point.  2020 was a crap year and 2021 doesn't look much better and Lego is one of the few things that keeps me sane so brick on everyone.  

I would not describe it as hate at all.  Disappointment, yes, especially when compared to the animal-laden original, which arguably put the expectation there.  As for the realism, I would not have been surprised at all to see many animals of various types indoors, especially in winter, to keep them warm (something common in the medieval times), especially in a standalone, non-urban dwelling that this structure appears to be since such a location would need to be more self-sufficient.  I did not see tongs or shears present in the build (the more common tools of a blacksmith).

All arguments about realism aside (let's face it, this is a caricature and could be a fantasy medieval setting), I have always maintained that the set was good (despite some of my disappointments compared to the original), and my only question is of value.  Depending on the real price point, I will have to make that decision to pay or not for this as a set. As you say, the set is fine.  I would even call it good.  Whether a set is good or not in its design is inconsequential to me when evaluating its value, and that will entirely depend upon the price point.  I thought the PoBB was outstanding as a design and also had a great value.  This set is good, and I am unsure of its value.  The characteristics above outline parts that I find valuable in a set, and what I'm willing to pay more money for.  I think that the City Main Square set is very good, too, but there's no way I'm paying $200 for that.

I certainly agree with you, 2020 sucked.  I'm looking forward to all that Lego has to offer in 2021, and I'm hoping that when the official release comes out the price point and more detailed pictures will help me find some more value in this set so that I can help support castle type builds.  I always mention that TLG should bring back a Castle themed line to customer service when I call, and I would encourage all castle fans to do the same!

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9 hours ago, Gorilla94 said:

This style of architecture can't be represented with round tiles. It goes beyond the historical accuracy problem. A toy Castle set is always a bit fantasy. In fact I am even fine with the roof which most seem to hate, because of that. The thing is: the round tiles are meant to represent wood and serve as  something giving the building stability. You have to bend wood to achieve such a form. And even if there is a tree big enough so a lunatic can waste that much material cutting that shape out of it in one piece that size without  having to bend it, the shape itself still screams desperately "I am a structural weakness and about to collapse soon" when looking at it.

A quick Google search for English timber framed houses shows several results with curved timber used as part of the frame. The timber was not 'bent' by any builder, rather these timbers did come straight from the tree: the skill was in felling then sawing up the tree to provide the different different pieces needed for the build. The builders of yesteryear were adept at making the most of the available materials and utilising the natural strength of the tree within their builds. The same techniques were used to provide timbers for ships aswell.

So the use of the curved brick is perfectly appropriate.

If you want to pick historical holes in it, the timbers would not have been exposed like that. They would have been limewashed to protect them from the elements, but an all-white building would be boring to both build and look at.

I'm really looking forwards to buying this set! I think it's great. Another peasant or animal would have been great but the use of the Falcons is pleasing.

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How do you guys know there won't be any animals? Have I missed some new information?

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32 minutes ago, Sandbag58 said:

A quick Google search for English timber framed houses shows several results with curved timber used as part of the frame. The timber was not 'bent' by any builder, rather these timbers did come straight from the tree: the skill was in felling then sawing up the tree to provide the different different pieces needed for the build. The builders of yesteryear were adept at making the most of the available materials and utilising the natural strength of the tree within their builds. The same techniques were used to provide timbers for ships aswell.

So the use of the curved brick is perfectly appropriate.

If you want to pick historical holes in it, the timbers would not have been exposed like that. They would have been limewashed to protect them from the elements, but an all-white building would be boring to both build and look at.

I'm really looking forwards to buying this set! I think it's great. Another peasant or animal would have been great but the use of the Falcons is pleasing.

That sounds interesting. could you share a link?

I looked now several sites of google Images for "english timber framed houses". Also read over the Wikipedia article quickly... Didn't found any Information about round shapes inside the walls. The wooden stuctures on the outside look pretty straight in every single case except for a piece of decoration at a balcony.

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1 hour ago, Hive said:

How do you guys know there won't be any animals? Have I missed some new information?

The box pics are leaked on IG etc.  One husky and one tan horse.

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6 hours ago, Grover said:

I would not describe it as hate at all.  Disappointment, yes, especially when compared to the animal-laden original, which arguably put the expectation there.  As for the realism, I would not have been surprised at all to see many animals of various types indoors, especially in winter, to keep them warm (something common in the medieval times), especially in a standalone, non-urban dwelling that this structure appears to be since such a location would need to be more self-sufficient.  I did not see tongs or shears present in the build (the more common tools of a blacksmith).

All arguments about realism aside (let's face it, this is a caricature and could be a fantasy medieval setting), I have always maintained that the set was good (despite some of my disappointments compared to the original), and my only question is of value.  Depending on the real price point, I will have to make that decision to pay or not for this as a set. As you say, the set is fine.  I would even call it good.  Whether a set is good or not in its design is inconsequential to me when evaluating its value, and that will entirely depend upon the price point.  I thought the PoBB was outstanding as a design and also had a great value.  This set is good, and I am unsure of its value.  The characteristics above outline parts that I find valuable in a set, and what I'm willing to pay more money for.  I think that the City Main Square set is very good, too, but there's no way I'm paying $200 for that.

I certainly agree with you, 2020 sucked.  I'm looking forward to all that Lego has to offer in 2021, and I'm hoping that when the official release comes out the price point and more detailed pictures will help me find some more value in this set so that I can help support castle type builds.  I always mention that TLG should bring back a Castle themed line to customer service when I call, and I would encourage all castle fans to do the same!

Yeah but the picture is definitely spring or summer with the tree so i could see a bird or 2 or maybe a rabbit.  But what my point is with all the noise coming from the blacksmith most animals shy away from human interaction.  So I'm not to disappointed about the lack of animals.  I'm just trying to stay more positive this year and look at the good things.  There's always going to be some sort of disappointment with lego it seems anyway.  It just amazes me that everyone has been begging for something castle and when it comes people crap on it for minor reasons and these will be the same people begging for more castle/fantasy stuff and if this doesn't sell well lego might look at castle/fantasy as a lost cause.  When before on these forums I remember people saying support anything that lego comes out with for castle to show there is still appeal and now we've got people saying the exact opposite.  

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On 1/8/2021 at 10:19 PM, Grover said:

As a castle fan, I had a lot of hope and expectations for this set.  I have been disappointed, and my excitement for the new set has given way to this disappointment, which I found somewhat confusing.  Rather than complain on here, I thought I would be constructive and try to analyze why I feel disappointed.  To do that, I realized I had to look at why I had voted for the set in the first place.  So I would like to ask each of you as well:

1. Did you vote for this set on Ideas?

2. Why did you vote for this set if you did or why didn't you if you didn't?

1. Yes I voted for this set.

2.  Primarily because civilian castle themed builds have been grossly under represented.

While I like the building itself, I would have preferred something other than an actual blacksmith shop.  I already have one of those from the Medieval Market Village.  So right off the bat I expected to MOD this into a different shop or straight up house. 

The animals and fall foliage tree were rather instrumental in drawing me into the scene the original submission picture was setting.  While I would have preferred a fall foliage tree I do really appreciate what the designer accomplished with the final apple tree.  That is about as close to a real apple tree as I have seen built using legal connection techniques. 

I really didn't expect to see the goat show up in this set.  I don't fault this set specifically for the absolutely absurd corporate decision to not make farm animals in general extremely common amongst Lego sets regardless of theme.  (Goats, pigs, chickens, and cows should all be as common today across sets as horses used to be.  At least put the darn things on Bricks and Pieces for sale.  Again I don't hold that against the Blacksmith Shop specifically, that would be silly.)  I do like that the designer managed to get a recolor of the horse.  Having that in tan is long overdue.  I can forgive not having chickens and pigs if it meant we would have missed the recolored horse.

One of the things I liked about the original that I feel carried over to the final very well, is that it could easily be used in whole or as a parts pack in medieval, pirate themed port town, or modern day layouts.  I find it funny that some comments I have read pointed that out as a negative.  I thought that was one of the features of the original submission in the first place.

Honestly the figures are better than I expected.  I think it is hilarious that many of the pirate fans thought that green vest torso was too "castley" and now here it is being called too "piratey".  I am glad to see it reused as I find it generic enough to look good in either instance.  I also like the idea of "the blacksmith's daughter" not being the typical stereotype, even if that would be more historically accurate.  I really like the new falcon torso too.  I also like that one of the falcons is a woman using the same gender neutral shirt as the man.  I can't wait to see a better picture of that face print with the circlet.

I find it interesting that so many have completely misjudged the size of this building.  While the surrounding terrain has been cut back the building size itself has not been significantly changed.  This is basically the modular building equivalent of a stand alone medieval building.  I suspect once people see this in person they are going to realize that it makes classic castle sets look like children's playground equipment by comparison.

Overall I am very happy with the final result.  This is easily the best civilian medieval building Lego has made.  It looks to be a fantastic parts pack for making a medieval village or pirate theme port town.  I rather expect I will probably get at least two of these if not three or four.

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1 hour ago, zoth33 said:

I'm just trying to stay more positive this year and look at the good things.  There's always going to be some sort of disappointment with lego it seems anyway.  It just amazes me that everyone has been begging for something castle and when it comes people crap on it for minor reasons and these will be the same people begging for more castle/fantasy stuff and if this doesn't sell well lego might look at castle/fantasy as a lost cause.  When before on these forums I remember people saying support anything that lego comes out with for castle to show there is still appeal and now we've got people saying the exact opposite.  

I hear you on trying to stay positive.  It hasn't been easy this year.  I, too, am concerned that the blacksmith shop won't sell well and TLG will then think that Castle as a theme is a failure.  However, I think, based on the general comments here, that it will sell well.  I also think that the reasons people are disappointed may not be minor since TLG may have missed the mark on what Castle fans are looking for.  If TLG takes a swing at Castle and then misses, that's not the fault of Castle as a line, but rather the design.  While the set may get support, I think it is worthwhile for us to comment on what we do and don't like here, and what drew us to the IDEAS set in the first place, since it is good information for TLG to have and ways to keep the excitement of the people who supported the set initially.  That is why I asked my questions in the first place, because I wanted to know why people were drawn to the set and what they expected.  I would love for some Castle sets that are of the value and quality of PoBB to be produced.  I was very excited about that set, and it remains one of my favorites.

6 minutes ago, Lord Insanity said:

I think it is hilarious that many of the pirate fans thought that green vest torso was too "castley" and now here it is being called too "piratey".

I was unaware that pirate people thought it was to 'castley'.  That's hilarious!

6 minutes ago, Lord Insanity said:

This is basically the modular building equivalent of a stand alone medieval building.

I hope that you are correct.  I am very interested in seeing the official images when they are released.

6 minutes ago, Lord Insanity said:

One of the things I liked about the original that I feel carried over to the final very well, is that it could easily be used in whole or as a parts pack in medieval, pirate themed port town, or modern day layouts.  I find it funny that some comments I have read pointed that out as a negative.  I thought that was one of the features of the original submission in the first place.

My expectation was that it was 'medieval' based on the name of the project.  I was unaware that the original submission meant for the set to be muti-dimensional with respect to time.

6 minutes ago, Lord Insanity said:

It looks to be a fantastic parts pack for making a medieval village or pirate theme port town.

I will have to see the parts list to see if this would be the case for me or if it would be better to buy individual pieces on B&P.  That will largely depend on the price point and content of pieces.

Edited by Grover

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1 hour ago, Grover said:

My expectation was that it was 'medieval' based on the name of the project.  I was unaware that the original submission meant for the set to be muti-dimensional with respect to time.

Sorry for the confusion.  That was my personal take on the submission when I voted for it.  That the building could easily be adapted for other time periods with minimal to no modification.  That is merely a side effect of that real life style of building continuing on through multiple eras up to the modern day.  The original submission being highly run down and in disrepair really drives that home to me personally.  If anything I  think the final version is more solidly in the medieval period with the suggestion that it could be older if you want with the lichen covered roof.

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13 hours ago, zoth33 said:

I really don't get the huge amount of hate about this set not having all the animals.  I mean its a blacksmith.  In reality none of those animals would have been anywhere near a  guy forging metal.  I mean if you want animals there are tons of other sets or B&P that have that stuff.

First of all it is a Lego set so the animals can do what they like, second a medieval household like that most likely would have had several types of animals, put them on the other side of the house if you think they are spooked by the forge (as a biologist I think habituation would cure them of the sounds from the forge anyway). 
The problem is that there is not tons of other sets with animals nor are all of them on B&P and they always cost a lot, so when a set like this comes around we hope that we will for once get a few animals in it. When we do not of course some of us is disappointed however that do not mean that we hate the set. I for one think the building looks good and more useful than the original, but that the animals would have been the cherry on the cake. So if the designer or someone else from TLG reads this they know that animals are important in a set like this and next time hopefully include a more generous menagerie :wink:

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15 hours ago, Grover said:

The box pics are leaked on IG etc.  One husky and one tan horse.

Ah yes, I see that now. Wasn't aware of that picture.

Well, it's certainly a shame that we aren't getting any goats - especially since I gambled and sold the ones I had from my Mill Village Raid when this set was approved. :laugh:

Oh well. Husky #171 is completely irrelevant, but cool to get a horse in a new colour. And the minifigs seem promising, with some Black Falcon love.

While the set has very little in common with the submitted idea, I'm thrilled to finally be getting another good castle set after all these many years of absence. And when I voted for the set, I went in knowing that it would never pass on to an actual set 1:1. Just like the Pirate Bay.

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6 hours ago, Roebuck said:

First of all it is a Lego set so the animals can do what they like, second a medieval household like that most likely would have had several types of animals, put them on the other side of the house if you think they are spooked by the forge (as a biologist I think habituation would cure them of the sounds from the forge anyway). 
The problem is that there is not tons of other sets with animals nor are all of them on B&P and they always cost a lot, so when a set like this comes around we hope that we will for once get a few animals in it. When we do not of course some of us is disappointed however that do not mean that we hate the set. I for one think the building looks good and more useful than the original, but that the animals would have been the cherry on the cake. So if the designer or someone else from TLG reads this they know that animals are important in a set like this and next time hopefully include a more generous menagerie :wink:

I know everyone wanted the goat.  But there has to be a reason we haven't seen it in a set since the raid set so it's either the mold is messed up or they haven't made a new mold or for whatever reason.  I'm good with getting more animals, love getting animals but I would see a better chance of that in a set like a farm, or a build like a manor or homestead in a castle setting.  The animals on B&P are usually of good prices and if not bricklink is another source.  Yeah the goat is really expensive because of the rarity of it, but most other animals you can get for pretty good prices.    I'm hoping they release the goat in another set soon, maybe farm related to the city line but it's been so long, I really would like to see a sheep mold too or a woodchuck.  I have a degree in natural resources conservation, wildlife management and have hunted and fished since I was young and I don't know about you but most animals don't stick around buildings unless there is food or some other reason to attract them to the blacksmith shop.  I'm in a suburban area and the only reason wildlife is in my backyard is because of food and water, whether it be my bird feeders or the vegetables I grow.  I really hope Lego comes out with a new castle/fantasy line but for now this is all we have and I'm all for it.  

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23 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

I know everyone wanted the goat.  But there has to be a reason we haven't seen it in a set since the raid set so it's either the mold is messed up or they haven't made a new mold or for whatever reason.  I'm good with getting more animals, love getting animals but I would see a better chance of that in a set like a farm, or a build like a manor or homestead in a castle setting.  The animals on B&P are usually of good prices and if not bricklink is another source.  Yeah the goat is really expensive because of the rarity of it, but most other animals you can get for pretty good prices.    I'm hoping they release the goat in another set soon, maybe farm related to the city line but it's been so long, I really would like to see a sheep mold too or a woodchuck.  I have a degree in natural resources conservation, wildlife management and have hunted and fished since I was young and I don't know about you but most animals don't stick around buildings unless there is food or some other reason to attract them to the blacksmith shop.  I'm in a suburban area and the only reason wildlife is in my backyard is because of food and water, whether it be my bird feeders or the vegetables I grow.  I really hope Lego comes out with a new castle/fantasy line but for now this is all we have and I'm all for it.  

I agree with most of your points. I did not mean that wild animals would not mind the blacksmith, but the farm animals that where in the original submission. So I guess we misunderstood each other :classic:
Maybe a CMF or a ideas set of Groundhog Day would give us a woodchuck one day :grin: I am waiting for the sheep mould also in a City farm theme, but those darn kids only want police sets :wacko:

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On 1/8/2021 at 6:40 AM, Roebuck said:

Why is it so hard to include animals in sets?! 10 years ago 7189 Mill Village Raid a normal retail set with half the price managed to include a new horse colour, a new pig colour, 3 brand new chickens/hens in 2 different colours and 2 brand new goats and now in a similar set made specifically to please fans for twice the price we get a new horse colour (and the old husky) and that is it :facepalm:

In hindsight that set was animal gold. Every animal was either unique by way of printing and/or mould, or brand new (chickens)

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On 1/8/2021 at 7:19 PM, Grover said:

1. Did you vote for this set on Ideas?

2. Why did you vote for this set if you did or why didn't you if you didn't?

1. Yes

2. Because of the castle-theme; mostly in the hope of getting castle-specific or castle-oriented parts to revive the theme. Barracuda Bay was great for that regarding pirates parts and and supported the Medieval Blacksmith with similar desire. Its not as loaded as hoped for but still think it is a good set.

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1 hour ago, Roebuck said:

I agree with most of your points. I did not mean that wild animals would not mind the blacksmith, but the farm animals that where in the original submission. So I guess we misunderstood each other :classic:
Maybe a CMF or a ideas set of Groundhog Day would give us a woodchuck one day :grin: I am waiting for the sheep mould also in a City farm theme, but those darn kids only want police sets :wacko:

No problem.  I do really like the new hermit crab in the CMF.  I also do hope the recolor the small bird as it is it's only white and blue.  I'm hoping for red, black, grey, yellow, green, purple, and various shades of all colors really.  I also hope they do a vulture or could possibly recolor the eagle to fit a vultures colors.  I hope they recolor the patronas's from Harry Potter.  I would also like some different shades of the chicken mold.  A release of the cow again would be nice too.  Hope the national geographic thing keeps  going and we get some more interesting obscure animals.  

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i really like the set, it is cool has new knight minfigures although red lion knight would have been better then falcon knight it is a cool building and can be in a fantasy or historical setting. Even if the roof is not completly accurte to the medieval time it is ment to look good not be completely accurte. Some of the parts of the medieval village are not accurate to the medieval time but people like that set. I like it better then the idea. But even if you do not, if people bu it it will show that people like castle and hopefully they will bring back ( probaly story based ) castle

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Well, for me is better than original :)

And I prefer set for 100-150 dollars/euro than for 300.

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On 1/11/2021 at 12:51 PM, Modal said:

Do we know how many pieces it is?

It should have around 2,100 pieces according to promobricks.  2,164 pieces

Edited by JintaiZ

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Hello all! Is there any chance that AFOLs (not only on this forum) are building/putting together pieces for the original Ideas BlackSmith set and creating instructions etc.. Unfortunately I was not able to find any. Let me please know, I would join the project and click's some part/level of it.. :pir-classic:

THanks a lot beforehand

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Looks like a tan horse, and the 2 knights look great!! They certainly know how to pull people off the fence! 

On 1/10/2021 at 10:04 PM, thekeeperofthereaper said:

i honestly like the set and getting it the moment its available

i wonder if the set has any nod or easter egg callbacks to classic castle themes and sets

It kinda does, the knights have the half black/half silver Eagle shields, and blue torsos with that design in the middle

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