Ngoc Nguyen

42113 Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey

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31 minutes ago, damian_kane_iv said:

It's up to us to reduce the chances of this happening again. 

I think after this fact, LEGO has to be more clear on their policy when it comes to releasing vehicles that look similar to something used by some real-world military.

31039-1.jpg?20150513105142066-1.jpg?201611300919

People can see those look similar to a F-35, manufactured by the largest Defense company in the world.

So at the time those sets came out, they were just generic named sets like Blue Power Jet, or Air Race Jet.

And while people certainly could see the references to a F-35, LEGO did somewhat get away with it, by using those generic names it seperated the toy from the real world.

Do I think those sets are problematic?  No, but I can imagine LEGO will have an harder time getting away with generic named vehicles.

I can certainly see a lot more vocal feedback on future sets.

I also don't think they should stop making generic named vehicles, but they have to be clear on what their current 2020 policy is, the majority of LEGO customers aren't going to dig in some document to look for some 2010 article.

 

Edited by TeriXeri

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24 minutes ago, astral brick said:

Considering what the Empire represents in Star Wars, I always found extremely frightening that so many children want to dress as Darth Vader, a homicidal leader of a warmonger dictatorship. But I guess Vader is a cool guy after all, as long as its merchandising sells. Certainly it is ok for Lego, they are actually celebrating him by selling his mosaic. So educative, right?

If it's not Darth Vader it'll be some other figure. You can't pretend that humans aren't drawn to violence and power in one way or another and children are no exception. And it's hard to draw a line, no matter the subject matter.

For instance children like dinosaurs, especially the T-Rex which can be seen as a large killing machine. The Jurassic Park movies, loved by many children, show this. Children also like The Avengers, centered on superheroes and supervillains engaged in conflict and there are multiple other examples. TLG sells sets of both.

 

You can't shield them from this and you cannot dismiss all such depictions as harmful. The only way to keep "violence" at bay is through education, not burrowing your head in the sand and pretending it doesn't exist. That's why I said that it's hypocritical and a false moral standing to cancel this set. Playing around with words saying that all is okay as long as it's not based on military vehicles doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.

 

The most honest thing TLG could do right now is rebrand this as 18+ if they must and go along with it. They have plenty of other sets in this category for no reason, other than they're more expensive. Why not have this?

 

Don't play around with wordings, don't claim high moral standings when dealing with trivial and benign stuff. Just give people the products they want to buy and let them make up their own minds about them.

Edited by XenoRad

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21 minutes ago, XenoRad said:

Don't play around with wordings, don't claim high moral standings when dealing with trivial and benign stuff. Just give people the products they want to buy and let them make up their own minds about them.

I respect your liberal position on this :wink:

But are TLG listening to a random dude on a forum?

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6 minutes ago, andythenorth said:

But are TLG listening to a random dude on a forum?

TLG is listening to forums such as this as we constitute a significant customer base. But whether they choose to act on this and find a compromise that releases the set in some way and satisfy their rules at the same time is another question.

Still, I cannot understand how this product can get so far in production without this problem with TLG own rules gets addressed. This must cost TLG millions just in expenses for design, production, shipment and recall. Not to consider how much of the product is going to be destroyed/recycled with environmental impacts.

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Reached over a 1000 supporters on the petition. the goal now is to show The LEGO Group a lot more than "some fans" will be disappointed by the decision to not launch this product. Keep spreading the Petition and Emailing/calling LEGO. Its too early to give up now, perhaps they will rethink how they bring this set to market under an 18+ age restriction or if they only do phone-in orders and keep it off the shelves, do a limited release. Any of these variation of steps can satisfy those who want to buy this set without major negative pr for The LEGO Group. I will post an update in the petition in some time mentioning these suggestions. They might not read our suggestions and comments in favor of this set in online forums but they will in petitions.

Link to Petition: http://chng.it/wqT4gs7GrH

Keep Sharing, Voice your desire for this set.

Edited by AirDolphin

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1 hour ago, TeriXeri said:

I think after this fact, LEGO has to be more clear on their policy when it comes to releasing vehicles that look similar to something used by some real-world military.

31039-1.jpg?20150513105142066-1.jpg?201611300919

People can see those look similar to a F-35, manufactured by the largest Defense company in the world.

So at the time those sets came out, they were just generic named sets like Blue Power Jet, or Air Race Jet.

And while people certainly could see the references to a F-35, LEGO did somewhat get away with it, by using those generic names it seperated the toy from the real world.

Do I think those sets are problematic?  No, but I can imagine LEGO will have an harder time getting away with generic named vehicles.

I can certainly see a lot more vocal feedback on future sets.

I also don't think they should stop making generic named vehicles, but they have to be clear on what their current 2020 policy is, the majority of LEGO customers aren't going to dig in some document to look for some 2010 article.

 

lol when I saw those sets the 1st thing I thought was "why cant these be in blue grey or olive green/tan?" 

This whole controversy exists because an outside group is exploiting LEGO's stated policy for the sole purpose of drawing criticism to the partnership :/. I hope that this episode doesn't lead to changes to that policy that make these kinds of sets less common. LEGO is already having trouble retaining market share due to competition from clone brands and digital media/video games that don't hold these moral scruples...

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1 hour ago, damian_kane_iv said:

lol when I saw those sets the 1st thing I thought was "why cant these be in blue grey or olive green/tan?" 

This whole controversy exists because an outside group is exploiting LEGO's stated policy for the sole purpose of drawing criticism to the partnership :/. I hope that this episode doesn't lead to changes to that policy that make these kinds of sets less common. LEGO is already having trouble retaining market share due to competition from clone brands and digital media/video games that don't hold these moral scruples...

I know what you mean.

Other companies literally have been selling plastic model kits of military equipment for decades.

And those model kits were based on real-world models, often even including specific stickers of a particular army/navy/airforce, and also either included or suggested buying paint for camouflage.

Other lego-like toy companies are now starting to fill in that sector of models as well.

Almost 3000 people responded to the poll on https://brickset.com/article/52715/official-technic-bell-boeing-v-22-osprey-cancelled and so far it's 75% don't agree with the cancellation.

So there certainly is a demand for such sets from LEGO.

I never was opposed to the set, I just find the way they handled it a bit strange, putting this set in catalogs and then cancelling it.

LEGO just needs to clear up where they stand, as I can see people losing brand-loyalty over the way they handled this.

 

 

Edited by TeriXeri

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6 hours ago, R0Sch said:

How about instead of trolling you share the scanned instructions with the community, as promised. No need for the cover or Osprey reference, only the building steps are fine. I will gladly build it in Studio.

Scanning takes time, and Ive just got the set yesterday. I dont like your rushing. It's not like I walk back on my words or sth. I will, just give me time.

The plan is that I'll take the instruction to a photocopy shop and asked for a scan. It'll take about a week.

 

Edited by Ngoc Nguyen

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I think he was saying it tongue-in-cheek :wink:

Trying to figure out what colour combo would work. Replace DBG with black and orange with red or yellow? Or something along the lines of 42066?

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2 minutes ago, suffocation said:

I think he was saying it tongue-in-cheek :wink:

Trying to figure out what colour combo would work. Replace DBG with black and orange with red or yellow? Or something along the lines of 42066?

The DBG body can be rebuilt in Black or White. You can even build the body in DBG in use some existing panels to replace the newly introduced ones.

The accent orange can be replaced with red, 42066 blue, or 42070 blue

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25 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

Scanning takes time, and Ive just got the set yesterday. I dont like your rushing. It's not like I walk back on my words or sth. I will, just give me time.

The plan is that I'll take the instruction to a photocopy shop and asked for a scan. It'll take about a week.

 

You sir will be doing a great favor to the community.

Perhaps photos uploaded to Bricksafe would be an easier way to get them out there https://bricksafe.com/ 

I am looking forward to building it in Studio then working out how to build it with replacement parts (PF motor and battery)

Edited by HRU_Bricks

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I'm signing a petition... 

That lego technic group has owed  us a pre-Flagship set next year 2021 (eg.42110 alike) 

 

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Just now, suffocation said:

How much is this going to set you back, though?

You mean the scanning fee? Less than 10 USD.

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2 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

Update: The photocopy shop has received the instruction book. The file will be available in 9 hours.

Champion! 

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Thought it'd be worse. Anyway, you're owed a few beers whenever you visit northern Italy or southern Switzerland.

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15 hours ago, andythenorth said:

Wow. 

Some here confuse two things.

1. Cancel-culture (a bad thing, small mobs terrorising free speech and free actions).

2. Companies having principles they won't deviate from.

Then some go looking for facts to support their argument either way.  Happy days.  Knock yourselves out.

Bollocks to that.

TLG have a principle not to represent contemporary military hardware. 

The V-22 Osprey represents contemporary military hardware.

This is an officially licensed model of a V-22 Osprey.

Dressing it up as a rescue device AND selling it as a licensed set puts 2 acceptable things together and arrives at unacceptable.

The company has a rule.  Sometimes rules get bent a bit. 

This rule was bent by TLG staff beyond breaking point.

TLG acted.  Rules are rules.

Stop crying over plastic toys like baby men. 

The bad scary nasty liberals have not taken your toys away.

 

15 hours ago, Erik Leppen said:

No, we can start our own toy company and do it differently.

But yes, we will indeed have to accept that TLC: 1. has guidelines to begin with; 2. tries to follow those guidelines; 3. made a mistake; 4. made some people angry and 5. chooses by themselves to try to fix the mistake.

The choice, in the end, lies with toy companies whether or not to release a set, with shop-owners whether-or-not to retail it, and to buyers whether-or-not to buy it.

So you’re both saying that throughout the entire design phase, testing phase, and all else that goes into making a set, of which there was clearly not a problem, TLG suddenly awoken from their stupor two weeks before the set was due to be sold? This was not a mistake made. This was not TLG doing anything wrong. This was a small percentage of a whiny group of people who took offense to a set apparently because of a license name on the box. 

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Although I think it is a shame the set was cancelled because I found it one of the more interesting sets this year, I still think Lego did the right thing, just too late. I was actually surprised they issued this model alltogether because it was so obviously against their policy of not building military sets. As we say in Dutch “beter ten halve gekeerd dan ten hele gedwaald” (a fault confessed is half redressed?). I guess they had these discussions internally before releasing the set and the reaction just confirmed their doubts/fears. It shows that Lego’s moral values are more important than the cost of the recall/cancellation of the set and I have respect for that.

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@Ngoc Nguyen Does the tiling of the rotors woks better than what we saw in in the german reviews?

Before releasing the instructions, you should wait to know what TLG will really do. If they finally decides to release the set without the license, you may have troubles.

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What if TLG marketing planned this from the very beginning of development of this set, just to make them look better in public view? (look, we developed new set, but you do not like it? Oh, sorry, we will not sell it if you guys do not like it.)

Also, what will enviromentally oriented activists say to adress of TLG eco-friendly policy, when they find out what will happen with tons of plastic and paper waste? Right now is their loud voice needed! :devil:

Nonsense, conspiracy, shower-thoughty BS, I know, but I still can not believe that the connection with military theme was not seen before and it was 

I will miss you so hard, new DBG panels. :pir-hmpf:

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Just now, Akbalder said:

Does the tiling of the rotors woks better than what we saw in in the german reviews?

Mine works flawlessly. There's a bit of slack because of the long drive train, but other than that there's no trouble with the tilting function.

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3 minutes ago, Akbalder said:

If they finally decides to release the set without the license, you may have troubles.

Considering that instructions are generally released for free anyway, I doubt there'll be issues

Edited by Bartybum

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