42113 Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey

[Maaboo the Witch]

13 minutes ago, R0Sch said:

How about instead of trolling you share the scanned instructions with the community, as promised. No need for the cover or Osprey reference, only the building steps are fine. I will gladly build it in Studio.

He may not be able to share them now. Since this is a cancelled set, distributing the manual might cause trouble.

[nhk]

9 minutes ago, Coolusername said:

Thing is Star Wars and Indiana Jones and others are fictional... Real war with Ospreys aren't...

If we start considering that fictional violence is somehow less violent than real violence, we're practically normalizing the concept into the minds of everyone and they become desensitized to real world violence in general. Thus any fictional battle sets are actually much more damaging than a simple S&R set. But human psychology doesn't fit with the marketing excuses companies come up in order to peddle the highly overpriced branded sets which generate interest by their theme, regardless if it doesn't fit with the "brand gudelines". That is in fact what the "fictional vs real-world" part is, an excuse for Lego to circumvent their own rules when convenient.

Edited July 21, 2020 by nhk

[hjxbf]

1 hour ago, andythenorth said:

Looks like you're confused between "opinions of random people on the internet", and "what Lego said about this in 2010"

The key missing word by LEGO from all previous posts is "recognizable". Not contemporary, military or similar.

Hence, make a military based product generic and cartoonish enough, and you're good to go. Such as 9396, 42025, 42066 etc. And make sure you name it something irrelevant. Which is the only point where 42113 fails.

Which means it all boils down to licensing.

[paul_delahaye]

These peace protesters have just made this the most desirable set for Lego Technic collectors in the world.  More rare than a limited release crawler set.......

What a shame

[Maaboo the Witch]

Just now, paul_delahaye said:

These peace protesters have just made this the most desirable set for Lego Technic collectors in the world

Well, for those of you who like aircraft, at any rate.

[Akbalder]

What is the environmental cost of something like that? Even if Lego manages to reuse some parts of the sets, sending them all over the world for nothing is very bad.

[mahjqa]

Apart from all this whining about the set not getting a release, can I whine about its functionality? 

It seems like the separate nacelles seem really wobbly, as seen in this video at 11:50 https://youtu.be/UFQLVez8m6w?t=711

 

[R0Sch]

6 minutes ago, paul_delahaye said:

These peace protesters have just made this the most desirable set for Lego Technic collectors in the world.  More rare than a limited release crawler set.......

What a shame

I am sure many sets will "fall off the trucks" and find their way into the hands of scalpers and cheaters. The point is not to fall into temptation and buy them. It's just a toy set after all. I'm positive it will come out as a re-issue without a license cause it's a great Technic set.

[JunkstyleGio]

1 minute ago, mahjqa said:

 

It seems like the separate nacelles seem really wobbly, as seen in this video at 11:50 https://youtu.be/UFQLVez8m6w?t=711

 

I think it was one of the other reviewers who said that it might be because of some building mistakes..

 

[Eaglefan344]

Unreal. Absolute shame that a couple of snowflakes can have such a huge effect.

[TechnicRCRacer]

Bummer :( Was looking forward to the new C+ box (but will probably be released later). Maybe, just maybe, they will release this set with a different color scheme and modifications a few years later.

[nhk]

23 minutes ago, R0Sch said:

It's just a toy set after all. I'm positive it will come out as a re-issue without a license cause it's a great Technic set.

It's what we're all hoping for, but being developed in conjunction with Bell/Boeing it might not be so easy to de-license it.
Unless some deal is worked out where they still pay the companies, but avoid branding the set as such.
In fact if Bell and Boeing have already been paid in advance, then this whole protest was for nothing, the only achievement it garnered being pissing off a part of the Lego community and costing Lego some serious cash with the recall.

Edited July 21, 2020 by nhk

[PicnicBasketSam]

As much as I'm annoyed and upset for this happening, as I was actually intending on buying this, if the instructions are actually posted online I'll probably just build it in LDD (there's a small group of people in the LDD Forum here that have figured out how to create and install new parts since LEGO has abandoned it) and move on with my life like I do with the vast majority of Technic sets. I would be very surprised if the black rotor blades, dumb Control+ battery box, and dark grey panels don't turn up in sets in 2021, or Bricks & Pieces later this year. It would honestly be just fine with me if this fiasco made LEGO stop doing licensed Technic sets as they seem to be directly responsible for the trend away from B-models, and most of the time they don't look very much like their source material unless they're huge.

I know it's fun to whine about "cancel culture" when things literally get cancelled but given how minimal the outside pressure seems to be, I'm thinking that this was a very contentious product within LEGO and someone had a contingency plan ready to go at the first sign of trouble which we're now seeing take place.

[XenoRad]

If this set is indeed cancelled altogether then this is a bad business call. It's TLGs financial loss and our disappointment.

 

But there's another thing that I don't understand. That comes with the recent branding of 18+ for certain collector's sets. If you can have Star Wars helmets and a Lamborghini model targeted at 18+ when clearly there's nothing in these sets that would warrant such a designation, then why cancel this?

 

Just rebrand it 18+ and be done with it. Officially it's not for kids and as far as adults go they can make up their own mind about how the V-22 Osprey, a so called military transport aircraft is responsible for the destruction of the modern world.

 

I don't mind principles. I do mind fake principles and hypocrisy. You can't claim you're a toy company when some of your sets are branded 18+ and you can't claim morals when a harmless model of a transport aircraft, be it military, is pulled from stores when other sets have a direct link to military attributes, be it an official link or implied.

And ultimately this isn't about people being upset that TLG didn't go yet another step forwards in braking their principles. This is about people mature enough to properly understand how principles should work and how harmless creativity and technical ability should be allowed to exist.

 

Ultimately, let's be real. The instructions will be posted online somewhere, people will get a hold of either the already existing sets, sold though various "unofficial" channels or just wait until all/most of the parts become available and then just build it. But as someone who has seen some of the incredible MOCs around here and understands the effort that goes into them and also the effort that has gone into most official sets - I'm just sorry for the people who worked on it and now see their work erased. From their point of view it must be hard to have poured effort into making this set only to see that people won't enjoy it due to what essentially boils down to a political decision.

[jodawill]

1 hour ago, Coolusername said:

Thing is Star Wars and Indiana Jones and others are fictional... Real war with Ospreys aren't...

The Indiana Jones sets literally had Nazis with machine guns.

 

There's not much that hasn't been said here already, but I'd like to add my vote here and say I'm also of the opinion that this "cancel culture" BS is ridiculous. But what bothers me almost as much is how everything Lego makes these days has to be licensed. You have to expect this type of "controversy" (if you can call it that) to happen when you associate yourself with another business. Why not just stop all this licensed crap and go back to traditional LEGO System?

[ChocolateCrisps]

Wow. I assumed when this all blew up that they might make this a limited release or rebrand it, I never thought they'd outright cancel it. As has already been said on here, possibly this set with the license should not have been designed in the first place. However, it did, and as fans have shown with the pretty strong arguments that have been made for this, it certainly is possible to justify the choices that were made in the development of this set, even if they were a little unprecedented in Lego's history. Had Lego decided to stand by their own decision making, it would have been possible to respond to this in a way that would satisfy all but the few who originally sparked this off.

 

But what happens now? Small groups of angry people can force Lego to completely throw out years of work overnight, without any room for reasoned debate or any form of compromise? That's quite frankly ridiculous!

Edited July 21, 2020 by ChocolateCrisps

[Vectormatic]

1 hour ago, andythenorth said:

But lol, doing a licensed model for a weapons system that has ongoing (or very recent) active combat duty and is in front-line readiness? 

How did they think was going to go? 

The Osprey isnt a weapon system, it is purely a transport craft, and is indeed used in search and rescue roles as well, even if by the military.

 

Given that @Jim posted a confirming quote, i suppose that is really the end of this set, which really disappoints me, which is the fourth time this year for Technic (i ragequit the defender over its poor driveline, the rubberband drive in the Duc is bad design, the lime colour problems are inexcusable for a €380 set, and now the cancel a very promissing set at the eleventh hour due to some offended shouty people)

Ill probably take a break from lego for a while, this shit is all way too frustrating for what is supposed to be a relaxing hobby, i just need to make my mind up if i get the charger before i go focus on other things

[damian_kane_iv]

Put this in my own thread but I thought I'd also share this Change.org petition for LEGO to keep the Osprey up: http://chng.it/KHK9sbSbrY . If anything, we need to make our voices heard now more than ever.

[Robert8]

First the City Police thing and now this

Really TLG???

[JGW3000]

Let's not get carried away with the name calling

Edited July 21, 2020 by JGW3000

[andythenorth]

58 minutes ago, vectormatic said:

The Osprey isnt a weapon system, it is purely a transport craft, and is indeed used in search and rescue roles as well, even if by the military.

Right so we're in semantics, bring the popcorn.  This is what the internet was made for, right? 

I was going by something like this definition: http://www.weaponslaw.org/glossary/weapons-system

By that definition the V-22 it is a weapons system.  One of its Marine Corps roles is VTOL tactical insertion.  Delivering marines to forward operations and similar roles.  It's not just a rear echelon cargo carrier.

It also mounts a Gatling gun and a tail machine gun, but eh, I guess TLG managed to leave those out of this mess.

But internets. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by andythenorth

[astral brick]

6 hours ago, AirDolphin said:

LEGO can do a few things to save children from "weapons, war and violence"(claim by the petition to stop its sale) in the set 42113 Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey by simply making the set 18+ and stating this set is only for adults.

I was about to write the same thing.

2 hours ago, nhk said:

Meanwhile we have multiple sets with 'battle' and 'attack' in the title, not to mention that the entire Star Wars range is based around conflict and war. I wonder how they justify putting out a set called the "Death Star", I guess destroying a whole planet full of people just isn't that big of a deal.

I totally agree with you.

2 hours ago, nhk said:

 That is in fact what the "fictional vs real-world" part is, an excuse for Lego to circumvent their own rules when convenient.

Perfectly said.

[Toastie]

1 hour ago, ChocolateCrisps said:

Small groups of angry people can force Lego to completely throw out years of work overnight, without any room for reasoned debate or any form of compromise? That's quite frankly ridiculous!

Do you really believe in that? Really? Come on.

TLG has a legal department that can sue the SH*T out of people. Youtube. BrickLink. LEPIN. You name it. And they cannot take it up with that - apparently random - organization? Are you kidding me???

All this "small groups of angry people" crap has become so bizarre in this thread, so utterly bizarre ... you can't possibly believe in such nonsense. What is going on here?

Read and read again what TLG has written: THEY have decided to do it this way. There are many alternatives. Many!

Just don't crack down on these DFG-VK folks - you totally overestimate what they can accomplish. Completely. This is about an all-plastic TOY. To have fun with.

TLG pulled the plug - for whatever reason. But again: When their legal folks are so weak to take it up, then sorry: They deserve it. And: We have to live with it. And again: Do you really believe that?

I simply don't get this. Other than: people are frustrated about that cancellation and blow off steam. In the totally wrong direction though, as far as I am concerned.

For me it would be much more interesting why they >really< cancelled the set. To be honest, I find it cheap, really cheap, how they phrased their reasons. Just unloading on other people.

Thorsten

 

[damian_kane_iv]

4 minutes ago, Toastie said:

Do you really believe in that? Really? Come on.

TLG has a legal department that can sue the SH*T out of people. Youtube. BrickLink. LEPIN. You name it. And they cannot take it up with that - apparently random - organization? Are you kidding me???

 All this "small groups of angry people" crap has become so bizarre in this thread, so utterly bizarre ... you can't possibly believe in such nonsense. What is going on here?

 Read and read again what TLG has written: THEY have decided to do it this way. There are many alternatives. Many!

Just don't crack down on these DFG-VK folks - you totally overestimate what they can accomplish. Completely. This is about an all-plastic TOY. To have fun with.

TLG pulled the plug - for whatever reason. But again: When their legal folks are so weak to take it up, then sorry: They deserve it. And: We have to live with it. And again: Do you really believe that?

I simply don't get this. Other than: people are frustrated about that cancellation and blow off steam. In the totally wrong direction though, as far as I am concerned.

For me it would be much more interesting why they >really< cancelled the set. To be honest, I find it cheap, really cheap, how they phrased their reasons. Just unloading on other people.

Thorsten

 

I don't think this is really a legal department issue here. DFG-VK has every right to criticize TLG and conversely TLG has the right to respond to, ignore, or capitulate to criticism of the set. I won't lie that the cancellation is frustrating and it's fun to blow off steam but never underestimate the ability of small groups- especially NGOs- to enact change by applying pressure in the public sphere. This applies even more if real fans of LEGO are quiet about this. Theres no overestimation of what DFG-VK accomplished here, they already achieved what they set out to do. 

It's up to us to reduce the chances of this happening again. 

[astral brick]

2 hours ago, Coolusername said:

Thing is Star Wars and Indiana Jones and others are fictional... Real war with Ospreys aren't...

Considering what the Empire represents in Star Wars, I always found extremely frightening that so many children want to dress as Darth Vader, a homicidal leader of a warmonger dictatorship. But I guess Vader is a cool guy after all, as long as its merchandising sells. Certainly it is ok for Lego, they are actually celebrating him by selling his mosaic. So educative, right?