42113 Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey

[Cumulonimbus]

8 hours ago, Toastie said:

...

This "NGO" had 10000 members in 1914, it was founded in 1892. You may not like it politically, nor programmatically - who cares. Just stop the BS about that 2 person NGO crap. It represents a good amount of people who have had it with war and weapons, who have suffered through wars, and want to make a change. Yes I know: Who doesn't. Well: Many. Or better: They don't get their butt off the chair to do something. But these people do.

...

Thank for the background information, it's insightful and nuances this whole saga a bit. Not sure if going after Lego is the most effective way towards a more peaceful world. On the other hand, if their goal was to create more awareness for their organization and their cause, this was action was a resounding success.

As for the set, I signed the petition. It would be a waste of energy and resources to cancel this set this late and I don't really see what good it will do if it gets dropped. In my opinion, it should be considered a lesson learned and should be taken into account in future license deals.

[JaBaCaDaBra]

9 hours ago, AirDolphin said:

@suffocation , Welcome, I am way too furious about this lol

Its Done guys, Share it everywhere you can, lets get this set out!!

LINK TO PETITION:  http://chng.it/4ngy4TbKbH

It goes FAST :-)

[Interceptor]

15 minutes ago, Cumulonimbus said:

As for the set, I signed the petition. It would be a waste of energy and resources to cancel this set this late and I don't really see what good it will do if it gets dropped. In my opinion, it should be considered a lesson learned and should be taken into account in future license deals.

Totally agree. I also signed the petition as this LEGO set has nothing to do with war imo. 

[Bartybum]

@AirDolphin Yeah I think that's good. I wanna add though, while I'm also disappointed, I think it's silly to be legitimately furious over this - it is, after all, just a toy. At the end of the day, I think it's important to keep things in perspective and understand that there are legitimate reasons for not wanting TLG to associate itself with a well known military product AND licensee.

[Ngoc Nguyen]

Part list:

 

 

Build yourself a Osprey with lime rotor blades!

[howitzer]

So many new DBG panels which are going to be exceedingly rare if the set gets canceled. I guess some of them might show up in B&P if TLG wants to put them on sale without being included in a set, but still.

[Timorzelorzworz]

Is it confirmed that the Osprey is designed by Markus? I wonder who was responsible for the Volvo.

[EdmanZA]

11 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

There is a big difference between a single aircraft, or labeling the entire Boeing (which has like only 34% of defense revenue according to their 2019 Financial report).

I don't agree with DFG-K painting the entirety of Boeing as off-limits, but I can see criticism of a particular military vehicle when it has a label on it, because that ties LEGO together with real-world users/companies of said aircraft.

And it has been made before under City in 2013, (60021) and even reviews say it's a V-22 but I haven't seen backlash on that set, or even the more recent Creator 3-in-1 "F-35" lookalike.

Now, I am myself fine with the set, there's no Boeing/Bell/V-22 Osprey text anywhere on the model anyway, but I can still understand the slippery slope of linking it to a real world model like that on the box.

 

11 hours ago, Rudivdk said:

This whole panicky looking rushed statement from TLG makes me wonder if there already was an internal struggle going on inside TLG about this set/licence. I can't imagine TLG being thrown off by some random group that easily. Maybe this was the final straw that broke the camels back. That would mean internal war (pun intended)...

These two comments line up quite well with my feelings on the set. When I first saw the set I thought it looked great, but I was also quite surprised by the specific subject matter. It did seem to quite blatantly cross the line of Lego's own guidelines. 

What for me distinguishes it from other sets that have been mentioned is:

1. It is a model of a very specific vehicle: a Bell/Boeing V22 Osprey. Other sets may look like real vehicles, but are not explicitly linked: 42066: Air Race Jet looks like an F35, but isn't called one. Sky Police helicopter is not called an AH-1Z.
2. The V22 is a vehicle that is currently only used by the military. Possible paper tenders aside, there is no single instance in civilian use today. Land Rover, Unimog etc. all have have multiple, daily-visible civilian uses and the sets represent those uses.
3. The V22 is in active military service. The Sopwith Camel, pirate ships, Indiana Jones vehicles are all historic vehicles, used outside of living memory for most people.
4. The V22 is a real-world vehicle. Vehicles from Star Wars, Avengers etc. are used in fantasy worlds in fantasy contexts.

If you were to remove any individual one of the above points, I think the set would pass muster.

I don't think DFG-VK's criticism of licence money going to a company involved in the arms industry will be what sways Lego here, but rather the highlighting of the four points above may have tipped the balance in internal discussions at Lego.

[Toastie]

24 minutes ago, EdmanZA said:

2. The V22 is a vehicle that is currently only used by the military

and

24 minutes ago, EdmanZA said:

3. The V22 is in active military service

These are the things that made the folks from that group nervous. I agree to everything you wrote, as your four points nail it.

 

24 minutes ago, EdmanZA said:

I don't think DFG-VK's criticism of licence money going to a company involved in the arms industry will be what sways Lego here

And I don't either. Your four points "tipped" something - but I bet there was something else going on inside TLG.

Best wishes,
Thorsten

P.S.: Signed the petition as well.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Toastie

[doug72]

The AW609 tiltrotor aircraft is the civilian cousin of the larger, military V-22 Osprey, aimed at corporate aviation, search and rescue operations, and oil rig transport. ... The AW609 can fly at 320 mph; most helicopters top out around 170 mph.7 Feb 2018

 

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Doug72

[Ngoc Nguyen]

 

[brickless_kiwi]

Just now, Ngoc Nguyen said:

 

They have been pulled from the shelves of one of the largest lego retailers in nz some people who where lucky to get them.

 

[suffocation]

2 hours ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

Part list:

Thanks for sharing this!

After seeing the part list I'm even more miffed about the set being pulled Black Friday deals would most likely put it at around €100, which is a steal for the assortment of parts.

[Celurius]

25 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

 

I can't begin to tell you how jealous of this I am! I have phoned around every toy store I know and nobody has one available. I am just hoping that it is a little too late for Lego to recall all of these now, either that or they tweak the branding slightly and just call it a rescue helicopter or something and are able to release it.

[Vectormatic]

@Ngoc Nguyen man, add me to the list of people wishing they were you right now

Part of me thought of trying to find a shop which still has a few in stock, but no way im going to get FOMO-ed into paying full price, ill wait and see if it gets released.

The good news is that the instructions are out there, so assuming some of the critical parts end up released in other colours then lime green, we should be able to build our own down the line.

[1gor]

@Ngoc Nguyen thank you for sharing your experience. It is very nice to se that you are happy with set 

[Ngoc Nguyen]

5 minutes ago, vectormatic said:

The good news is that the instructions are out there, so assuming some of the critical parts end up released in other colours then lime green, we should be able to build our own down the line.

I'll scan the instruction and share it here later.

[Jim]

14 hours ago, Rudivdk said:

I can't imagine TLG being thrown off by some random group that easily. 

Unfortunately, that is how the modern world works. Welcome to 2020!

Just now, Jim said:

Unfortunately, that is how the modern world works. Welcome to 2020!

Please Jim, no politics and stuff. You know the drill.

Just now, Jim said:

Please Jim, no politics and stuff. You know the drill.

Sorry, my bad.

[nerdsforprez]

Jim policing Jim.  I like it...

[JaBaCaDaBra]

19 minutes ago, vectormatic said:

critical parts

IF the set really will be pulled back they are stuck with a bunch of parts
I suppose they will sell them on B&P so no need to use lime rotorblades

[nerdsforprez]

oh wait....."policing" sounds militant.  perhaps i cant say that anymore.  

 

As everyone is probably aware....here in the US anything regarding our police force is being interpreted as political and overly violent. Perhaps TLG shoyld pull its police sets as well 

[Erik Leppen]

To be honest, I'm with the protesters and I really, really don't get the point of this stupid petition here on this forum. Sorry to say but that makes us (where we = Eurobricks) just the same as we make out those German piece association people to be, except that they actually have a point and we don't. We just want to buy plastic pieces. What they say is because this is a licenced set, a third party that is involved in military operations, may receive revenue from a children's toy. This makes it different than sets like 42066, that had no such licence, and is the reason they don't want to market the set. How is that so hard to understand.

Yes, there are sets about vehicles used in coal mining. Using that as an argument for 42113's normal release, is a logical fallacy called "whataboutism". "What about 42055?".

Is it such an awesome worldchanging set that we can't do without? Come on. We, AFOLs, of all people, are the ones that can design a better Lego aircraft ourselves. We need this set the least of everyone. It's an interesting set, sure, but it's not revoluationary. Please instead of whining, go make your own aircraft, and put in on rebrickable. We can do that. and not a single penny will go to that company.

Apparently, this set is against TLC's guidelines. Otherwise they would have issued a statement that it isn't, But they pulled back the set. This means they know they are in the wrong. In my opinion this is a totally stupid move by TLC to even begin producing such a thing without looking into the company they arranged a licence with, and it's about time a group like this stands up against it.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Erik Leppen

[1gor]

20 minutes ago, Jim said:

Unfortunately, that is how the modern world works. Welcome to 2020!

Please Jim, no politics and stuff. You know the drill.

Sorry, my bad.

[suffocation]

12 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said:

they actually have a point

They'd have a point if they were consistent. Fact is, they're not - they've shot at the most convenient target while blatantly ignoring collaborations with Liebherr, for instance.

12 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said:

Is it such an awesome worldchanging set that we can't do without?

No, it isn't. Then again, I don't know how things are in your happy haven but here where I live a lot of people are glad to have even trivial, material things to look forward to after months of losing family and friends.

Edited July 21, 2020 by suffocation

[hjxbf]

11 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said:

What they say is because this is a licenced set, a third party that is involved in military operations, may receive revenue from a children's toy.

Which is the case for Liebherr, Volvo, VAG, etc. as well. The lot.

If you venture into licensing, some of that money is going to end up places you didn't like. But it's outside your control, bar leaving licensing be altogether.