42113 Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey

[Cumulonimbus]

33 minutes ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

Hmmmzz
It looks like something is going wrong at Lego.

According to the Zusammengebaut website, TLG is deliberately postponing or even canceling the launch. Apparently there is doubt about the military character of this set and the manufacturer of the original machine (quote translated via Google Translate):

" The response from LEGO Germany that reached us this morning: “The LEGO Technic Set Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey was developed by us in relation to the aircraft's operations in rescue operations. The aircraft is mainly used for military purposes. We have long followed the principle of not designing sets with military vehicles. In this case, we have not strictly followed our own guidelines and high standards and will therefore review the plans to launch the product on August 1st"

Edited July 20, 2020 by Cumulonimbus

[therealjustin]

They just now discovered that the V-22 is used in the military?  

 

[JaBaCaDaBra]

omg

[Cumulonimbus]

4 minutes ago, therealjustin said:

They just now discovered that the V-22 is used in the military?  

 

No, they just discovered that calling it a rescue version is not enough to conceal the origin of the vehicle. They haven been called out by the "German Peace Society" (no idea what that organization does), claiming that buying this set will support a weapon manufacturer. A bit overstated if you ask me, but I can understand the critique.

I can image that TLG want to avoid further controversy and simply cancel the set.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Cumulonimbus

[J_C]

How about 10226 Sopwith Camel?

Just because it is WWI it is not military? 

Warplane with camouflage and machine guns.

Hypocrisy 

TLG gone mad. 

I agree with no military policy, but it is wearing thin considering how many guns you have in Star War themes, now you can get shooting device that shoots 1x1 round pieces.

And Osprey is a problem? Flying machine with no weapons, no bombs.

Ridiculous. 

Literally days before the official launch, probably months of development, plans, meetings and now they notice. I would bet it is "whom who shouts the loudest" person, and nowadays with the cancel culture etc everyone is too scared to says: "just sit down and put a wet cloth on the forehead" instead "we will look into it"

Tiptoeing around snowflakes killed the cat. 

[suffocation]

Well, that sucks enough to pull a golf ball through a garden hose. I was really looking forward to this set as a great donor, what with all that delicious DBG panelling, orange tapered 5x11 panels and the new battery box.

[AVCampos]

They have been making Osprey-like aircraft in the past with no issues, not to mention the 42066. I guess what's ruffling feathers here is this being an unambiguous model of an Osprey.

2 minutes ago, J_C said:

How about 10226 Sopwith Camel?

Just because it is WWI it is not military?

TLG has stated many times that their "line in the sand" is modern weapons, i.e. what a child of today could possibly see in real life killing real people. Old weapons, such a medieval, pirates, western and, yes, WW1 (and even WW2 for Indiana Jones sets), and futuristic weapons, such as Star Wars and Alien Conquest, are given a pass.

[Cumulonimbus]

Just now, J_C said:

How about 10226 Sopwith Camel?

Just because it is WWI it is not military? 

Warplane with camouflage and machine guns.

Hypocrisy 

TLG gone mad. 

I agree with no military policy, but it is wearing thin considering how many guns you have in Star War themes, now you can get shooting device that shoots 1x1 round pieces.

And Osprey is a problem? Flying machine with no weapons, no bombs.

Ridiculous. 

Literally days before the official launch, probably months of development, plans, meetings and now they notice. I would bet it is "whom who shouts the loudest" person, and nowadays with the cancel culture etc everyone is too scared to says: "just sit down and put a wet cloth on the forehead" instead "we will look into it"

Tiptoeing around snowflakes killed the cat. 

I think the line that has been crossed in this set is not based on the features of the model, but with the license agreement between TLG and Bell, an active manufacture of (among others) military vehicles. The Sopwith company is long gone and many other themes like Star Wars and pirates are fictional.

But I agree that it is very late in the game for TLG to have second thoughts. What we are seeing now is the marketing department panicking and doing damage control.

[JaBaCaDaBra]

2 minutes ago, suffocation said:

Well, that sucks enough to pull a golf ball through a garden hose. I was really looking forward to this set as a great donor, what with all that delicious DBG panelling, orange tapered 5x11 panels and the new battery box.

Maybe they can sell them to Lepin or Sluban wich are allready hanging out flags and forsee a great sale since they WILL have this set.

[J_C]

around 20.000.000 died in WWI. if warplane was OK, I really do not understand why civil version of military plane (that is even in war situation used to transportation) is problem. It is not a problem, it is just fear of the army of self-appointed crusaders of the only truth (theirs) on twitter/facebook and current political and social climate, when everyone is just soo scared something might offend somebody. well, basically everything might be offensive to someone. I think this is bad step for TLG and they should show some spine and say "this is transportation/rescue plane, if you do not like it, do no buy it, get lost" 

how about 42066 which was obviously jet fighter? (racer? ehm...there are no jet plane races, ever). 

I think TLG should stand-up to these "do-good-for-you-even-if-you-do-not-like-it,we-know-the-best" and tell them, there are no weapons, it is not military, the end.

Edited July 20, 2020 by J_C

[kbalage]

6 minutes ago, Cumulonimbus said:

I think the line that has been crossed in this set is not based on the features of the model, but with the license agreement between TLG and Bell, an active manufacture of (among others) military vehicles.

So, as Mercedes and Volvo are also manufacturing military vehicles I guess those licenses have to be dropped as well...

[AVCampos]

I think Chevrolet also made military trucks. What about the very origin of Volkswagen?

[J_C]

10 minutes ago, Cumulonimbus said:

I think the line that has been crossed in this set is not based on the features of the model, but with the license agreement between TLG and Bell, an active manufacture of (among others) military vehicles. The Sopwith company is long gone and many other themes like Star Wars and pirates are fictional.

But I agree that it is very late in the game for TLG to have second thoughts. What we are seeing now is the marketing department panicking and doing damage control.

Land Rove, Mercedes, Volvo, they all sell their cars to the armies. You are stretching it way toooo faaaar :-)

[Timorzelorzworz]

Maybe just a marketing strike

[Cumulonimbus]

2 minutes ago, kbalage said:

So, as Mercedes and Volvo are also manufacturing military vehicles I guess those licenses have to be dropped as well...

For the record, me personally thinks that TLG is overreacting if they are considering dropping the Bell license. But you're right, being very strict about your principles as a company is very slippery slope. Either hold on to your principles and accept lower revenue or take advantage of opportunities and dilute your principles. A well known Polish brick manufacture thrives mainly due its line of military vehicles.

If you ask me, this commotion is caused by a lack of confidence and identity at TLG. Of course they want to maximize sales and thus want to release contemporary and attractive sets for kids and adults. But the sets and vehicles that sell well often have elements of violence (James Bond Aston Martin to name a single example). It's a trend that has steadily increased for years across multiple themes. TLG will have to re-evaluate what they judge as most important: profit or principles. Whatever action they take with this set, you will have you answer.

[Jundis]

19 minutes ago, J_C said:

Land Rove, Mercedes, Volvo, they all sell their cars to the armies.

The difference is, that there is no civil version of the V-22. It is purely for military purpose, even if it is a transport, not a fighting vehicle.

The best thing for Lego is to say: "We will consider collaborations more carefully in the future." and donate some money from the sales to UN or something. To completely drop the sale of the 42113 would be really bad... maybe sell them on their website only with an 18+ sign or something.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Jundis

[Timorzelorzworz]

Interesting, at this point everybody wants this set more than before :D

2 hours ago, kbalage said:

That's exactly the plan

Nope :D

[Cumulonimbus]

35 minutes ago, J_C said:

Land Rove, Mercedes, Volvo, they all sell their cars to the armies. You are stretching it way toooo faaaar :-)

I'm just interpreting the news I read, don't shoot the messenger. I like the 42113 set and couldn't really care less if it was a military vehicle or not. Ethical education should be done by parents, not corporations. The issue at hand is that TLG is breaching their own policy of no violence based sets for years and only now are called out for it. We'll see what their reaction will be.

EDIT:

- Seems that DFG-VK is serious about this set (in German): https://lovebricks-hatewar-de.dfg-vk.de/startseite

- Brickset has a post about this news as well: https://brickset.com/article/52679/technic-bell-boeing-v-22-osprey-cancelled#comments

Edited July 20, 2020 by Cumulonimbus

[Timorzelorzworz]

2 hours ago, kbalage said:

That's exactly the plan

Nope :D

[Gimmick]

5 minutes ago, Timorzelorzworz said:

Maybe just a marketing strike

Nope. The "DFG-VK" has also sent letters to youtube-streamers and asked them/encouraged them to paticipate in a "small campaign" in the Lego-Store in Berlin where they want to build a peace-symbol with Lego-parts. They even made an exclusive website about the set...

The problem is now: How to get out of this bullsh.. without hurting your own reputation and wallet too much. The set has already been delivered to the stores... :D Maybe they change it and every set that already exists will be incredible valuable in the future.. ;D

[Jundis]

Just now, Gimmick said:

Maybe they change it and every set that already exists will be incredible valuable in the future.. ;D

I take 20 sets as my future retirement investments! Ehm I mean, you can send me these disrespectful, disgraceful sets and I will dispose them in a peaceful manner.

[J_C]

17 minutes ago, Jundis said:

The difference is, that there is no civil version of the V-22. It is purely for military purpose, even if it is a transport, not a fighting vehicle.

The best thing for Lego is to say: "We will consider collaborations more carefully in the future." and donate some money from the sales to UN or something. To completely drop the sale of the 42113 would be really bad... maybe sell them on their website only with an 18+ sign or something.

42066 ??? is there some civil application of single seater jet figher?  

(racing in nonsense, we both know it - it is just covering obvious military inspiration)

Edited July 20, 2020 by J_C

[hjxbf]

16 minutes ago, Jundis said:

The difference is, that there is no civil version of the V-22. It is purely for military purpose, even if it is a transport, not a fighting vehicle.

Not entirely true. The Osprey has been marketed as, and participated in public civil SAR tenders.

[J_C]

11 minutes ago, Cumulonimbus said:

I'm just interpreting the news I read, don't shoot the messenger. I like the 42113 set and couldn't really care less if it was a military vehicle or not. Ethical education should be done by parents, not corporations. The issue at hand is that TLG is breaching their own policy of no violence based sets for years and only now are called out for it. We'll see what their reaction will be.

I agree about the parents, that is why I think parents should decide to buy it or not. Not some activist group of do-gooders who claim to right to decide for everyone.

 

[Jundis]

Just now, J_C said:

42066 ??? is there some civil application of single seater jet figher?  

(racing in nonsense, we both know it - it is just covering obvious military inspiration)

There are Airshow Jets at least.

Just now, hjxbf said:

Not entirely true. The Osprey has been marketed as, and participated in public civil SAR tenders. 

You are right, I didn't know this one. The safest way would have been just to go for the Leonardo AW609 instead of the Bell.