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17 hours ago, howitzer said:

Sorry to veer off from the discussion about the Lambo, but I had to comment on this:

You can't really compare the looks of the Bugatti and 8448 because the latter is not based on any real car. Bodywork on Bugatti was by no means bad, but to me it's pretty obvious that it could've been improved my mixing in System parts for reproducing the subtle curves, while using Technic panels to cover larger areas where appropriate.

For me Technic was always about functions, and it's indeed true, that a car set can only have so many functions to reproduce so they don't make a good comparison to construction machinery and such. In the beginning of the Technic line the car chassis sets had their place simply because they reproduced functions not yet seen anywhere else, but after 8880 there has been very little in the way of new functionality in Technic car sets. The pushrod suspension in 8458 and the gear shifters of Porsche and Bugatti count but I'm not aware of any other really innovative functions since 8880 and that doesn't seem like very much of development for 25 years. For these reasons I feel sets depicting a real car would be better represented in Creator Expert line, as functions are not at focus like in other Technic sets and better bodywork is possible when there's no need to limit it to mostly Technic.

I was not comparing the look of the two cars, I was comparing what they could do. That was in response to you saying that the Chiron was not technical enough to warrant being called Technic. I was saying that the 8448 didn't have that much going for it either and it's not the lack of body panels I was referring to. The only difference between the two cars, really, is that the 8448 had the gull-wing doors and the Chiron had the rear wing. So again: How is the Bugatti less of a Technic set than the 8448?

I think the basic premise for the naysayers is that there isn't enough innovation from one car to the next and I can only ask: Who said there is any need for innovation? Is the real Lamborghini Sian so full of innovation as to make the Bugatti Chiron obsolete? No. So then why is the Lego version expected to? Why can't Lego simply release a new supercar every 2 years with a slight difference in functionality to fit the real car and thus create a supercar series for collectors? I don't necessarily consider it a failure that they don't reinvent the wheel every 2 years. I see this as a collectors' series, rather than as a journey where every car must have significant improvements over the previous one and if it's merely its equal then Lego failed and the car is not worth buying. Yes, issues like the Lego Chiron's poorly designed suspension need to be fixed for the next release, but as far as the angle of the steering wheel, I really don't care as long as the steering works. Like I said, there are sets where I, too, would be looking for lots of functionality, but I like these cars for their looks and I'm not that concerned that they don't have enough functions to compete with the Mercedes Arocs. I'm more concerned about Lego continuing to choose cars that fit well into the series. As long as they do that, I'll probably buy every one of them. If they came out with an minivan or a retro car as the next model in this series instead of another current supercar, then I won't buy it.

---

Anyways, the Sian looks great. The back of the car looks a bit weird and there are other minor cosmetic things I could pick on, but I won't and I still like it enough to order it on June 1 without hesitation. I'm not disappointed at all... Actually, I'm pleasantly surprised and I'm very excited to get my hands on this set, but maybe that's because I'm more of the casual Lego fan that they are targeting with these cars.

Edited by boat2903

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5 hours ago, ctx1769 said:

I got 2 claas tractors hmm could I build this.......... No

This is quite fitting, seeing as Lamborghini was originally a tractor manufacturer. 

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15 hours ago, JamesJT said:

 

I'm just finishing this. I may have another go at it with the parts from 42115.

42056 Miura by James Tillson, on Flickr

With parts from Sian it would be great ( and if there is a classic 4l differential for transverse engine and transmission that would be something)

Edited by I_Igor

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I am really excited to get my hands on this model. At first sight the final product looks stunning and meets my expectations. Waiting for reviews by Jim and Sariel.

And the design video - it was worth doing just only for to get some introspection into Uwe's work studio and to hear him speak finally. Very much appreciated as he is one of my favourite LEGO designers.

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Disappointed.
Video shows it is still using the old differential(parts no.62821), not the new differential from 42109 (part no. 65414&65413)
Pt6CueS.png

No new gears, no new differential.
Just some new pannel shape...

Guess I will skip this one...

Video : 

 

Edited by SamuelYsc
+ video

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6 hours ago, boat2903 said:

I was not comparing the look of the two cars, I was comparing what they could do. That was in response to you saying that the Chiron was not technical enough to warrant being called Technic. I was saying that the 8448 didn't have that much going for it either and it's not the lack of body panels I was referring to. The only difference between the two cars, really, is that the 8448 had the gull-wing doors and the Chiron had the rear wing. So again: How is the Bugatti less of a Technic set than the 8448?

I think the basic premise for the naysayers is that there isn't enough innovation from one car to the next and I can only ask: Who said there is any need for innovation? Is the real Lamborghini Sian so full of innovation as to make the Bugatti Chiron obsolete? No. So then why is the Lego version expected to? Why can't Lego simply release a new supercar every 2 years with a slight difference in functionality to fit the real car and thus create a supercar series for collectors? I don't necessarily consider it a failure that they don't reinvent the wheel every 2 years. I see this as a collectors' series, rather than as a journey where every car must have significant improvements over the previous one and if it's merely its equal then Lego failed and the car is not worth buying. Yes, issues like the Lego Chiron's poorly designed suspension need to be fixed for the next release, but as far as the angle of the steering wheel, I really don't care as long as the steering works. Like I said, there are sets where I, too, would be looking for lots of functionality, but I like these cars for their looks and I'm not that concerned that they don't have enough functions to compete with the Mercedes Arocs. I'm more concerned about Lego continuing to choose cars that fit well into the series. As long as they do that, I'll probably buy every one of them. If they came out with an minivan or a retro car as the next model in this series instead of another current supercar, then I won't buy it.

---

Anyways, the Sian looks great. The back of the car looks a bit weird and there are other minor cosmetic things I could pick on, but I won't and I still like it enough to order it on June 1 without hesitation. I'm not disappointed at all... Actually, I'm pleasantly surprised and I'm very excited to get my hands on this set, but maybe that's because I'm more of the casual Lego fan that they are targeting with these cars.

Umm, Bugatti does have quite a bit more advanced gearbox though, with new parts and all, even stepping up from the Porsche. Also one significant feature of 8448 was the hugely variable bodywork, something which obviously cannot be done with real cars such as the Bugatti so both sets have something that the other doesn't. Sian on the other hand appears to be technically almost the same as the Bugatti, with just some of its problems fixed.

My point here is that the bodywork could be replicated much better in combination of System and Technic parts and as no technical innovation seems possible anymore (prove me wrong, please), I don't see the why they insist that UCS cars must be Technic and not either Creator expert or maybe line of their own or maybe it's time to revive Model Team? I get that they have collectible value to some people and I don't want to take that away, but as it is, UCS cars seem to go against the core philosophy of the Technic theme. Of course this all ties with the more general development of the Technic line, as many of the types of the machinery represented are functionally essentially identical, so it's hard to innovate. I mean, crane lifts stuff and loader loads stuff and excavator excavates, what else is there to do? The Liebherr brought us new remote control and electronics, Osprey and BWE are probably attempts to bring something new types of machines in the line, but while the BWE was a great set, I don't see another similar machine popping up anytime soon. Maybe they could start a line of kinetic sculptures or something? But this discussion is getting really off-topic, and should probably continue elsewhere.

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1 minute ago, SamuelYsc said:

Disappointed.
Video shows it is still using the old differential(parts no.62821), not the new differential from 42109 (part no. 65414&65413)
Pt6CueS.png

No new gears, no new differential.
Just some new pannel shape...

Guess I will skip this one...

Why do people keep bringing this up? The new diff is only good for RC purposes, while the old diff gears up less and is thus the right choice for a manual model. The new diff would introduce more friction to the drivetrain, and I bet there will already more than enough friction as it is. So why make things worse?

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26 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

Why do people keep bringing this up? The new diff is only good for RC purposes, while the old diff gears up less and is thus the right choice for a manual model. The new diff would introduce more friction to the drivetrain, and I bet there will already more than enough friction as it is. So why make things worse?

There are a couple of benefits to the new differential in a well designed manual model. Firstly, faster spinning engines are more realistic and they both look and sound better than slow ones. Secondly, by gearing up almost twice as fast at the diff you reduce the distance you have to move the car before the engine starts turning (the backlash) by almost half. So I would say this makes the new diff the right choice for both well designed manual and motorised models. But you are also right when you say "there is already enough friction as it is", which is true due to the poor gearbox design. It's because of the efficient, high friction gearbox that the new diff is probably unsuitable for this car, not the diff itself. Those of us that wanted to see this car have the new diff also wanted it to have a better gearbox.

Edited by allanp

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27 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

Why do people keep bringing this up? The new diff is only good for RC purposes, while the old diff gears up less and is thus the right choice for a manual model.

Period.

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6 hours ago, BusterHaus said:

This is quite fitting, seeing as Lamborghini was originally a tractor manufacturer. 

A 250 kph tractor that's something :sweet:

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8 minutes ago, Coolusername said:

So does someone know if  the bars in front glow in the dark???

I don't think they do. I feel that if they did then they'd have shown them off in the promo photos.

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1 hour ago, Gray Gear said:

Why do people keep bringing this up? The new diff is only good for RC purposes, while the old diff gears up less and is thus the right choice for a manual model. The new diff would introduce more friction to the drivetrain, and I bet there will already more than enough friction as it is. So why make things worse?

Couldn't agree more.

Once somebody has the budget for this set, I don't see any problem to top 380 Euro with 20 Euro more to buy these extra parts, and replace them - but I wouldn't have high hopes about any improvement...

Maybe a task to check for @kbalage or @Sariel:wink:

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7 minutes ago, Timorzelorzworz said:

Iam the only one who think that for 18+ this set is ugly colorful like a playground for 5 years old?

I'm happy to see that there are other parts here in lime colour other than the large outer panels. Besides, how much of the more colourful pieces are visible on the finished model? I get more than enough parts in gray/dark gray/black in each other set I buy to satisfy my needs.

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26 minutes ago, agrof said:

Couldn't agree more.

Once somebody has the budget for this set, I don't see any problem to top 380 Euro with 20 Euro more to buy these extra parts, and replace them - but I wouldn't have high hopes about any improvement...

Maybe a task to check for @kbalage or @Sariel:wink:

Old style, high friction gearbox needs old, low ratio diff. We were hoping for the new diff paired to a better, more realistic gearbox that would have way less friction, allowing the new diff to be used. This allows for something new over the Chiron, more realism, higher engine speeds, easy motorisation, less backlash and is just better in every way.

22 minutes ago, Timorzelorzworz said:

Iam the only one who think that for 18+ this set is ugly colorful like a playground for 5 years old?

Nope, not the only one. I never bought the argument "oh well you can't see it in the finished model" because you can see blue pins everywhere and as the builder you can see it while you build it, and now there is a viewing window to see the gearbox they no longer have that excuse either. And no, I'm not going to spend £350 just so I can swap out most of the parts, many of the parts I would want to swap out only come in one bright colour so I couldn't do that even if I wanted to.

Edited by allanp

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The finished model looks great, no question about that, but the inner is too much color. I can't believe that this is a satisfying build because all colors are very bright. Reminds me to childrens garden.

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2 hours ago, howitzer said:

My point here is that the bodywork could be replicated much better in combination of System and Technic parts and as no technical innovation seems possible anymore (prove me wrong, please), I don't see the why they insist that UCS cars must be Technic and not either Creator expert or maybe line of their own or maybe it's time to revive Model Team?

Please show me a brick built Creator Expert style model with an eight speed sequential gearbox actuated from paddle shifters at the driver's seat.  Until then, Technic is the right place for a model with this feature set.

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25 minutes ago, Timorzelorzworz said:

Iam the only one who think that for 18+ this set is ugly colorful like a playground for 5 years old?

I think the 18+ is just new marketing that Lego has been doing over the last year or so to target their high end products to a more adult audience that can afford to purchase such a set. I don't see how this is a harder build that the Chiron that says 16+ on the box. In fact is it much more complicated than the Land Rover which is 11+?

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26 minutes ago, Timorzelorzworz said:

Iam the only one who think that for 18+ this set is ugly colorful like a playground for 5 years old?

18+ doesn’t mean nobody under the age of 18 will build it. I see it all the time: adults well over 18 who struggle to get the Land Rover gearbox working, which is very simple compared to this one. Besides, at the end, you hardly see any of the colour coding. So does it really matter...? 

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Just now, icm said:

Please show me a brick built Creator Expert style model with an eight speed sequential gearbox actuated from paddle shifters at the driver's seat.  Until then, Technic is the right place for a model with this feature set.

Agreed. I have seen quite a few comments in the youtube comments section (nasty place!) saying "it should be creator expert", but do these people look at a creator expert set and say "it should be Technic"? Of course not. They want every car to be creator expert and no Technic, which seems quite selfish to me TBH. People should have a choice between creator expert and Technic cars.

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2 hours ago, howitzer said:

Umm, Bugatti does have quite a bit more advanced gearbox though, with new parts and all, even stepping up from the Porsche. Also one significant feature of 8448 was the hugely variable bodywork, something which obviously cannot be done with real cars such as the Bugatti so both sets have something that the other doesn't. Sian on the other hand appears to be technically almost the same as the Bugatti, with just some of its problems fixed.

My point here is that the bodywork could be replicated much better in combination of System and Technic parts and as no technical innovation seems possible anymore (prove me wrong, please), I don't see the why they insist that UCS cars must be Technic and not either Creator expert or maybe line of their own or maybe it's time to revive Model Team? I get that they have collectible value to some people and I don't want to take that away, but as it is, UCS cars seem to go against the core philosophy of the Technic theme. Of course this all ties with the more general development of the Technic line, as many of the types of the machinery represented are functionally essentially identical, so it's hard to innovate. I mean, crane lifts stuff and loader loads stuff and excavator excavates, what else is there to do? The Liebherr brought us new remote control and electronics, Osprey and BWE are probably attempts to bring something new types of machines in the line, but while the BWE was a great set, I don't see another similar machine popping up anytime soon. Maybe they could start a line of kinetic sculptures or something? But this discussion is getting really off-topic, and should probably continue elsewhere.

While a studded, classic built bodywork would indeed be more detailed and smooth, it would also be another thing which people are forgetting - HEAVY. And I don't think the (upgraded) suspension can take any more weight.

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2 minutes ago, ShowsOn said:

I think the 18+ is just new marketing that Lego has been doing over the last year or so to target their high end products to a more adult audience that can afford to purchase such a set. I don't see how this is a harder build that the Chiron that says 16+ on the box. In fact is it much more complicated than the Land Rover which is 11+?

In a world where so many "adults" seem to have the attention span of a 11 year old, I'd say the age marking on the box is of little use. :)

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8 minutes ago, icm said:

Please show me a brick built Creator Expert style model with an eight speed sequential gearbox actuated from paddle shifters at the driver's seat.  Until then, Technic is the right place for a model with this feature set.

Are you saying such a model can't be built? No, TLG hasn't produced such a set, but I'm not seeing why it couldn't be made if they so chose.

2 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

While a studded, classic built bodywork would indeed be more detailed and smooth, it would also be another thing which people are forgetting - HEAVY. And I don't think the (upgraded) suspension can take any more weight.

This is the first argument that actually has a point, but I believe the right combination of Technic and System pieces would accomplish better styling while not being too heavy. I'm not saying you can't use Technic panels, but why limit the construction to them?

Of course new, stiffer springs for a suspension that can handle the weight can also be made (and have been, but they are rare and expensive in the second hand market, so a new such a spring would be very welcome too).

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