42115 - Lamborghini Sian FKP 37

[Gray Gear]

12 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

Or they can do it like

0.5L offset + 1L cranks + 1L cranks + 0.5L offset

yeah just use 2l thin liftarms (41677)

[nerdsforprez]

23 hours ago, vectormatic said:

I think calling these UCS level set "for children, teenagers at best" a bit inaccurate. Sure, Lego is a toy, Technic isnt any different at that, but a €400 set isnt exactly kids stuff, even Lego themselves advise it for 16+. And while there will off course be plenty of kids lucky enough to unwrap a Chiron on their birthday, i'd be willing to bet the majority of Chiron went to 20+ buys, either AFOLs like us, or car guys which got dragged in by the porsche/bugatti branding, or just adults with a case of the nostalgias.

If we're talking the sub €200 sets, sure, holding 42096 to AFOL standards is kinda missing the point, its a cool racercar with some technic features, which would blow the socks off of most kids lucky enough to get one. We arent the target market. The same also kind of goes for the UCS cars though, 42056 was a big hit with non AFOL porsche fans, and those dont care about gearbox order, they are amazed to have moving gears and piston in the first place.

Children, teens, un-trained young adults; the upshot is still the same.  Even UCS sets are not built for car, design, engineer- trained afecionados.  I'll change "at best" to such sets being marketed for some adults; but they would be your run-of-the-mill, recreational to beginner level builders.  Instructions, color vomit, etc and the way such sets are built tells us as much.  UCS Technic sets are NOT the same as expert-level sets, nor are they created for such a crowd.  Yet we all approach, complain, gripe, etc. as if such sets are build for the most ardent of MOC-builder and AFOLS. 

But admittedly, even my own argument is stale.  Even I tire of it.  I will shut-up now.  I guess I just like to remind folks of this when I hear such vitriol and complaining.  If you don't like something about a set (like new Volvo's cabin) - use the set as a parts pack and rebuild it.  I guess to me that is what Lego is about.  Its not supposed to be a build-and-be-done-with-it toy. 

4 hours ago, Frequenzberater said:

A new, and flexible light system, controlable by the control+ hub would be great 

Back to the topic..... oh man.  This is probably first on my Lego wish list.  This would be so great.  This and new engine parts.....

Edited February 1, 2020 by nerdsforprez

[Seasider]

Well as a Chartered Engineer who helps designs expensive cars for a living I think the Ultimate series are great. Some colour vomit to help orientate the models is sometimes needed especially on models as complex as the Chiron.

[nerdsforprez]

[1gor]

2 hours ago, Seasider said:

Problem is they’ll have to make new crankshaft pieces too

Or 1.5 studs axle?

[allanp]

3 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

Children, teens, un-trained young adults; the upshot is still the same.  Even UCS sets are not built for car, design, engineer- trained afecionados.  I'll change "at best" to such sets being marketed for some adults; but they would be your run-of-the-mill, recreational to beginner level builders.  Instructions, color vomit, etc and the way such sets are built tells us as much.  UCS Technic sets are NOT the same as expert-level sets, nor are they created for such a crowd.  Yet we all approach, complain, gripe, etc. as if such sets are build for the most ardent of MOC-builder and AFOLS. 

But admittedly, even my own argument is stale.  Even I tire of it.  I will shut-up now.  I guess I just like to remind folks of this when I hear such vitriol and complaining.  If you don't like something about a set (like new Volvo's cabin) - use the set as a parts pack and rebuild it.  I guess to me that is what Lego is about.  Its not supposed to be a build-and-be-done-with-it toy. 

But the complaint I have with the Chiron is that the gearbox was TOO complicated (as well as the colour vomit and soft suspention). If gearboxes were more mechanically authentic they would actually be far easier and simpler for everyone to understand. 

[Ngoc Nguyen]

What if this thing is not a Sian but a Terzo Millenio?

[AFOoLish]

With Control+?

[Didumos69]

58 minutes ago, allanp said:

If gearboxes were more mechanically authentic they would actually be far easier and simpler for everyone to understand.

I don't understand why this is the general perception. LEGO gearboxes are actually not much different from mechanically authentic gearboxes. The only difference is that with LEGO we split the input over 2 inputs to get more than 2 ratios, which, btw, is not the same as a double clutch gearbox.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Didumos69

[nerdsforprez]

1 hour ago, allanp said:

But the complaint I have with the Chiron is that the gearbox was TOO complicated (as well as the colour vomit and soft suspention). If gearboxes were more mechanically authentic they would actually be far easier and simpler for everyone to understand. 

Perhaps true... but overly complicated in a Rube Goldberg, doesn't need-to-be-this-way, this-is-stupid way.  Not in a cool-complicated way.  I think there is a difference.  Complication that increases sophistication and intellectual firepower is far different than over-complication that decreases sophistication and intellectual firepower.....

[AMX]

29 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

What if this thing is not a Sian but a Terzo Millenio?

I don’t think so 

since terzo’s mirrors are not visible.
 

 

[Ngoc Nguyen]

1 minute ago, AMX said:

I don’t think so 

since terzo’s mirrors are not visible.
 

 

oh right that makes sense

[1gor]

38 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

What if this thing is not a Sian but a Terzo Millenio?

 

Terzo Milenio is just a concept actually...

[Ngoc Nguyen]

As the Porsche and Bugatti came with new parts that overcame the limits of Technic of their times and broadened the scope of possibilities, I think the Lambo will do the same.

That leads me to pose the question: what are the current limits of Technic supercar functions at the moment?

These are what I came up with:

- Sagging suspensions. Since the Ducati has a new pair of springs I expect to see them in the Lambo.

- Engine size. 2L standard engine blocks are too bulky in some cases. Corvette engines are not realistics and dont work well in other cases. So the Lambo can introduce a kind of medium size engine block.

- Brake calipers. The Lambo can introduce some kind of soft part to make working calipers that dont damage the brake discs.

As the Bugatti already introduce the part that allows a compact 8 speed gearbox, I dont think there's any limits left with the gearbox.

Any ideas of other limits for the Lambo to overcone with new, specialized parts?

[Rudivdk]

3 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

I dont think there's any limits left with the gearbox.

In essence: slack in the gearbox/drive train due to too many gears. I don't exactly know how new parts could help, unless we would be getting a complete set of gearbox specific gears (which I don't see happening), but the fact that you have to push the Chiron about 1 meter forward/backward before the engine/pistons starts moving is also a bit problematic IMHO.

Not a big issue, but the sequential shifter units are quite bulky in both the Porsche and the Chiron, and they are currently constructed such a way that the steering wheel sits exactly vertical. Wouldn't require new parts to fix though, plenty MOCs available already.

Other than that, I think you summed it up nicely.

8 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

- Brake calipers. The Lambo can introduce some kind of soft part to make working calipers that dont damage the brake discs.

Don't think it'll happen, not on a static display car at least. Maybe in the future for some RC models, but engine breaking is working fine as it is... LEGO shouldn't go the Tamiya way IMHO...

[Kaanere]

Talking about suspension, it seems that the Aventador and Sian use Pushrod suspension, instead of the conventional double-wishbone suspension of the Chiron and 911. So there's one more element where 42115 can be different to those.

(This is the suspension of an Aventador, but the Sian should use a similar system)

 

[suffocation]

39 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

- Sagging suspensions.

That's bad geometry, not lack of parts.

39 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

- Brake calipers. The Lambo can introduce some kind of soft part to make working calipers that dont damage the brake discs.

The 2l rubber parts are fine and in any case I doubt they'd introduce parts subject to any wear of that kind in a brake configuration since they'd have millions of numbskulls complaining "omg teh breaks on my lambo r not misb enny moar ive only yewsd them a trillion timez wtf"

39 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

As the Bugatti already introduce the part that allows a compact 8 speed gearbox, I dont think there's any limits left with the gearbox.

How about pinhole z12 & z24 gears? Or a 6-position selector instead of the Pewkatti's 4-position wave selector?

Edited February 1, 2020 by suffocation

[Vectormatic]

@Kaanere AFAIK the real 911 doesnt have double wishbone suspension either, and that pic of the lambo suspension is double wishbone, just with the shock driven via pushrod rather then directly between one of the wishbones (or the upright) and the body.

 

As for engine bits, im going to absolutely throw a fit if they introduce new engine parts just to reduce the size, but dont add stuff for more accurate crank layouts other then the normal flat plane crank. As it is the engine bits are very decently scaled to these 1:8 cars, they are even too small. I did the match for the GT3RS once, if scaled to 1:8, the displacement of the 6 cils comes out to 1.6L, rather then the 4.0 it should be on the car. Granted, the blocks around the cylinder might be a bit more chunky then in real life, but real life engines also have a LOT more ancillaries bolted on, heads, manifolds, alternator, starter motor, various pumps.

If they want to make the engine better on these UCS cars, smaller part is NOT the way to go

[Gray Gear]

The engine cylinder pieces are ok, if you are building V6/V8, and the added legth doesn't count that much. But anything longer, maybe a inline 6, is getting problems. There is no way an engine like the RB26 would be 14 studs long. I would like new engine pieces, but it's not gonna happen.

[Jurss]

I watched wideo about Sian. It has semitransparent middle of roof, so there is possibility to get semitransparent 13x3 curved panel.

Also, to make it in proportions, existing wheel arch panels somehow doesn't fit with real car.

[nerdsforprez]

4 hours ago, Gray Gear said:

The engine cylinder pieces are ok, if you are building V6/V8, and the added legth doesn't count that much. But anything longer, maybe a inline 6, is getting problems. There is no way an engine like the RB26 would be 14 studs long. I would like new engine pieces, but it's not gonna happen.

Perhaps not.  But we have repeatedly gotten new transmission pieces over the years.  Now, we have new shocks/dampers.  We have gotten a motley of new design/body pieces, as well as a slew of new wheels, wheel arches, hubs and even ones with disc brakes.  I can't think of anything more appropriate than new engine parts at this point.  Our standard engine block elements, not counting the slotted vs. unslotted versions, have been in production for 30 years now.  THIRTY YEARS.  Yes, it is time for a change.  

[Parazels]

11 minutes ago, nerdsforprez said:

Perhaps not.  But we have repeatedly gotten new transmission pieces over the years.  Now, we have new shocks/dampers.  We have gotten a motley of new design/body pieces, as well as a slew of new wheels, wheel arches, hubs and even ones with disc brakes.  I can't think of anything more appropriate than new engine parts at this point.  Our standard engine block elements, not counting the slotted vs. unslotted versions, have been in production for 30 years now.  THIRTY YEARS.  Yes, it is time for a change.  

You still have enough tools to create custom piston engines by using existing parts.

There are many more important parts, that don't exist yet.

For example, small and medium triangle flat panels. Or a medium turning platform.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Parazels

[nerdsforprez]

5 minutes ago, Parazels said:

You still have enough tools to create custom piston engines by using existing parts.

There are many more important parts, that don't exist yet.

For example, small and medium triangle flat panels. Or a medium turning platform.

We have enough tools (pieces) to create a lot of things using existing parts.  So although your point is true, it is self-evident and moot IMO.  We also have enough pieces to create custom wheel arches, body panels, creative transmissions, etc. but that does not mean the new elements are not helpful and welcomed. 

What we are discussing is Lego elements, not what we can create out of Lego elements......

[SNIPE]

I think new suspention because I hate the stupid hard to work with 6.5L shocks. 6.5, cmon.

[Cardboy]

I don't think we will see the new shocks used as suspension for this car as the Ducatti will have two in the front suspension as a much lighter that any UCS it will need to be softer.

The BMW 40263 only had 1 yellow shock at the front. I can see these being used elsewhere in a possible scissor door mech. I think this will be the key USP

The gear box will probably get a tweak possibly the paddle shift but the Bugatti was pretty good

Being a mid engine car the engine block will be the same especially as all the new gear boxes have been at the bottom of the car and the will be space above that.

It's also a hybrid but for a static car not sure your how you can show that off in Lego.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Cardboy