42114 - 6x6 Volvo Articulated Hauler

[TeamThrifty]

C+ gets a bit of negativity... but, we're discussing a semi automatic gearbox here and @kbalage is working on a fully automatic version. This is an incredible leap forward - despite the niggles. To have the tools available to built a software package that allows a fully auto gearbox to be built would have blown my 12 yr mind!! 

I know its not perfect, but its actually brilliant in so many ways. The potential of this eco-system for me outweighs the niggles.

[Gimmick]

@TeamThrifty

If you are referring to me:

I'm realy the "glass is half full" guy and I like PU/C+. But it's hard to use, edit or create your own stuff, if the new motor simply does not work in PU. There were two updates of PU in the last few days -> nothing changed. The Spike Prime motor is there since months and I always said "well, spike prime is somewhat different etc. they have their own software". But know we have a new technic motor, that is exactly the Spike motor in grey only with a new ID and it does not work at all in PU...

Since all technic motors are (in terms of features, protocoll etc) basically the same, the only thing that stops them from working is something like a list with compatible IDs. How hard can it be to keep this up to date?

My set will arrive tomorrow (I hope) and if it indeed still does not work I will try to use those "generic ID" blocks... maybe something will work.

[Verodin]

1 hour ago, TeamThrifty said:

C+ gets a bit of negativity... but, we're discussing a semi automatic gearbox here and @kbalage is working on a fully automatic version. This is an incredible leap forward - despite the niggles. To have the tools available to built a software package that allows a fully auto gearbox to be built would have blown my 12 yr mind!! 

I know its not perfect, but its actually brilliant in so many ways. The potential of this eco-system for me outweighs the niggles.

Imho it deserves the negativity. Lego made a bad choice by replacing PF with PU. It would be different if both systems coexisted. It took me a while to figure out, but I've come to the conclusion that IR (PF) and bluetooth (PU/Sbrick/etc) have different target audiences. It is not a replacement by a long shot. 

Actual example; I currently have 42030 build and can play with that in an instant with my not even 2 year old. Turn it on and play. He loves to put stuff into the bucket and can even drive a bit, be it only backwards :) The same can't be said about any bluetooth controlled sets. I'm not going to talk about the official apps. I have the Liebherr and it's a paperweight until I dismantle it for other MOCs. In their current form they are an abomination as far as I'm concerned. So let's take a bluetooth receiver, appcontroller2 and a physical controller (no way I'm letting my kid become one of those screens staring zombies). Nice setup, but not for quick playing. I have to turn on 1 or more hubs, turn on bluetooth and location on my mobile (always disabled, except for this). Turn on controller. Start an app, click through it, select a profile, connect to all devices. By now anybody who just wants a quick play has lost interest. It works for me as an engineer who likes to tinker (lots and lots of possibilities), but for kids? I do realise my situation is not your typical teenager technic lego combo, but you get the point I'm trying to make.

Now I did order the set, but mainly as a parts pack since I'm seriously lacking yellow panels and I could buy it for less that 200 euro (or in other words 28% discount compared to list price here in Sweden). Maybe take the PU parts and tinker with Pybrick a bit or something similar. Without panel need and discount I would not have ordered it, purely due to the PU dependency.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Verodin

[Gimmick]

Hopefully kids never get in touch with "screens" and stuff, so they do not become one of those zombies!!11 Kids should have some toys, that they just can turn on and play immediatley, that's why I will give them something that will take them hours to assemble!

And I will turn on GPS when using BrickController2 even tough I do not have to!

There is realy an interesting "scissors if rejection" when it comes to PU/technic.One side always sais: "Mimimi everything is too easy, back when I was young it was far more difficult, we ha dto concentrate and we learned something from technic!" While the other side is like: "It has to be more simple, it far to complicated for kids". I don't know... swap children maybe?

Yes, I get your point, yes PU/C+ is no fun for a one year old, yes driving a car with a physical remote controll is more fun.

Do I know what a universal remote controller would look like that automagically works with all(!) models ? No.

Do I want to by a specialized controller for each model? No.

Do I want to pay for a programmable controller that basically would be an android device with attached controlls just for Lego while I already own a BT controller and a smartphone? No.

Would I buy large technic sets with programming options for someone who has not even enough patience to turn the devices on? No.

Do I like the programming features? Yes.

Do I think kids are smart enough to handle those things? Yes.

Is C+/PU in my opinion perfect? No.

Do I think there is a perfect solution? No....

[kbalage]

11 minutes ago, Gimmick said:

Do I want to pay for a programmable controller that basically would be an android device with attached controlls just for Lego while I already own a BT controller and a smartphone? No.

You got me here for a second, if it really works well I think I would pay for it  But I would definitely pay for a LEGO-made controller with proportional joysticks and lots of buttons that can be programmed via the app and after that can be used without smartphone assistance. If LEGO could provide a remote like that with pre-set profiles for the official sets, that would really solve most of the issues and concerns of a lot of people.

[Verodin]

10 minutes ago, kbalage said:

You got me here for a second, if it really works well I think I would pay for it  But I would definitely pay for a LEGO-made controller with proportional joysticks and lots of buttons that can be programmed via the app and after that can be used without smartphone assistance. If LEGO could provide a remote like that with pre-set profiles for the official sets, that would really solve most of the issues and concerns of a lot of people.

Count me in :)

 

Doesn't have to be android btw. You can get fully programmable bluetooth modules for a few dollar (think ESP32). You'd be surprised how cheap these things are these days. All I want is quality joysticks/buttons on the controller and I really don't care what brand or logo is on there.

 

Anyway, as much as I enjoy this subject, we're getting a bit off topic. This probably fits better in a dedicated PU topic. We're here to talk about the hauler. Speaking of which, now that the building instructions are available. How does this remote controlled gearbox hold up against designs floating around on this forum? 

[iLego]

6 hours ago, kbalage said:

I would definitely pay for a LEGO-made controller with proportional joysticks and lots of buttons 

I would also pay and probably thousands of others as well. But I have little hope since Lego did not bother creating a proportional joystick for PF, which also would have sold well.

[Gimmick]

@kbalage @iLego

Can you rich kids please stop sabotaging my arguments, thank you

[Citromon]

I am the owner of 42030 myself, and as soon as I saw this set - I wanted it. But this set has more disadvantages than advantages for me.

The Control + app for this set is pretty laggy. It takes a long time to set up, the steering does not work properly, and speaking generally about the app, I would not want my child to spend time looking at his smartphone when I spent $250 on a Lego set. The strangest thing was that some people bought it before 1 August and couldn't use it until the app was officially released.

I do like the new gearbox, it could be very useful in 42099, but her - is not. You can only run it properly (and slowly) at 1 speed, and if you switch it to the second one, and run it on the carpet, it will give you good nerves.

So Lego needs to seriously improve this system, and I hope that next year we get a set that deserves his many.

 

[Gimmick]

I have finished building it today and one thing irritates me:

In third gear there is rattling sound. You can hear it in @kbalage 's video at 4:18

I guess the source is the red gear

Does anyone has an idea why this happens and if it is a problem? My guess is, that the red gear is not in sync with the axle so it slips constantly - annoying but no problem. But not sure if that's correct. It's realy a huge model and I think it looks better than in videos. Those nose does goes a bit down, but if you add some weight to the dump bed it gets straighter.

And as an addition:

Brickgarage postet a few variants of other connections of the main drive axle: 26:40 It's in russian - I do not understand him either, but the images are enough :)

 

I replaced the center diff by a simple 16 teeth gear. Now it's up to Lego to get the angular motor running in PU ... -.-

[kbalage]

Just now, Gimmick said:

In third gear there is rattling sound. You can hear it in @kbalage 's video at 4:18

I'm not 100% sure but after I had a ride with gravel and sand as cargo my gearbox really started to sound weird :) 

[Gimmick]

22 hours ago, kbalage said:

I'm not 100% sure but after I had a ride with gravel and sand as cargo my gearbox really started to sound weird :) 

I would never let dirt on my hauler  

Climbing test: loses grip at ~38° on my carpet but the wheels never stop. Without load of course. I think that's totally fine for a model of this size.

Nevertheless I thought about removing the fake motor in the front and replace it with a XL-Motor. The rotation speed would then have to be calculated for each gear to match the main drive shaft, not sure if there would be a huge improvement this way. But since the steering motor doen't work anyway in Pu, maybe a first step would be: Replace the angular motor -.-

[kbalage]

2 minutes ago, Gimmick said:

But since the steering motor doen't work anyway in Pu, maybe a first step would be: Replace the angular motor -.-

You can use BC2 to control it, with the stepper function the gearbox works as well. 

[Verodin]

Here seems to be a better topic to place these things;

This misaligned print actually bothers me a lot considering this is a 2800 SEK (~270+ euro) set.

[mpj]

1 hour ago, kbalage said:

You can use BC2 to control it, with the stepper function the gearbox works as well. 

Do you mean that, without any mod to the original build, you can control the gearbox with a bluetooth controller? Is there a way to obtain the 4 positions of the L motor (3 gears + tipping mode) pushing 4 different buttons of the controller?

[kbalage]

Just now, mpj said:

Do you mean that, without any mod to the original build, you can control the gearbox with a bluetooth controller? Is there a way to obtain the 4 positions of the L motor (3 gears + tipping mode) pushing 4 different buttons of the controller?

Pushing 4 buttons for the positions does not work (yet), what is possible is selecting an initial position (e.g. the 1st gear), and then use 2 buttons to switch one gear up or one gear down, meaning when you press the button the shaft will rotate by 90 degrees clockwise/counterclockwise. It is not a foolproof solution at this point since the stepper rotation command uses relative positioning, which means if you press the button before the previous rotation is finished then it'll add 90 degrees to that intermediate position where it was at that moment. There's also no limiter for the lowest and highest gears so you need to pay attention to that as well. I published a blog post with a video and some screenshots about the configuration here.

[Verodin]

Aaaaaaand the various colour shades are here again... 1st time I see this in yellow though. Part 15100 (Pin with Friction Ridges Lengthwise and Pin Hole). TLG still doesn't have this issue under control, unbelievable :/

I'll take a photo tomorrow with a real camera instead of a crappy mobile.

Edit:

Sigh... once you start noticing, you can't unsee it. Wine red is also back (think 42107) this time for 87082 (Pin 3L with Friction Ridges Lengthwise and Center Pin Hole).

Edited August 6, 2020 by Verodin

[mpj]

8 hours ago, kbalage said:

Pushing 4 buttons for the positions does not work (yet), what is possible is selecting an initial position (e.g. the 1st gear), and then use 2 buttons to switch one gear up or one gear down, meaning when you press the button the shaft will rotate by 90 degrees clockwise/counterclockwise. It is not a foolproof solution at this point since the stepper rotation command uses relative positioning, which means if you press the button before the previous rotation is finished then it'll add 90 degrees to that intermediate position where it was at that moment. There's also no limiter for the lowest and highest gears so you need to pay attention to that as well. I published a blog post with a video and some screenshots about the configuration here.

All clear. Surely I will try. I cannot use the official C+ app because I'd like to change the servo motor with an L motor and small linear actuators for steering, but I'd also like to keep the gearbox setup 

[Gimmick]

45 minutes ago, mpj said:

All clear. Surely I will try. I cannot use the official C+ app because I'd like to change the servo motor with an L motor and small linear actuators for steering, but I'd also like to keep the gearbox setup 

That's not a servo. You can use the angular motor with some gears for the linear actuators. Maybe the C+ App is sensitive enough to detect the limits of the actuators ^^.

[mpj]

3 hours ago, Gimmick said:

That's not a servo. You can use the angular motor with some gears for the linear actuators. Maybe the C+ App is sensitive enough to detect the limits of the actuators ^^.

Oh yes you are right, does it spin fast? Otherwise it will take very long to move the actuators 

[Gimmick]

40 minutes ago, mpj said:

Oh yes you are right, does it spin fast? Otherwise it will take very long to move the actuators 

Nope, I think it's the slowest of all PU motors and has roughly the same speed as the PF XL motor.

But with a few gears... ;D

[Polarlicht]

My sticker sheet came a little but crumpled and it looked like it had air under the stickers, but when i applied them, they looked fine...

Edited August 7, 2020 by Coolusername

[paul_delahaye]

It's quite funny looking back over the topic, to the days when this set was just seen at the Toy Shows earlier in the year.  Everyone was slating it, mainly complaining about the scale of the cab, but then boom, lego put a really smart gearbox into the set which no one really knew about and now nearly everyone rates the set as it's so ground breaking.  It's almost Lego getting back to the sets of old where they were technical over looks.  Not only that, but the set has only been out a week and already Amazon have discounted it by £9.  It won't be long and it will have a 3rd off and it will be a great buy.

This in comparison to the most desired set of the year, 42113 which has crashed and burned for various reasons.

Edited August 8, 2020 by paul_delahaye

[Flak Maniak]

I'm planning to buy this set when it comes out in the States, from Lego's website. (Why don't they offer online preorders?) What I want to know is, what time of day is it likely to be up on the site on Sep. 1? And is it likely to sell out super quickly?

[Polarlicht]

I wonder if the fuel gauge in the app actually works for the batteries in the smart hub?